Admissions Advice

nick1996

I recently improved my score from a 154 to a 166 and that is just edging into the good territory for T14s, but I am applying this cycle and decisions are coming very late. I am wondering if I should wait until the next cycle or to continue with a full scholarship at a lower ranked university. I am primarily afraid that I will not have as good of an application given that I will not have great references and lack more stories for a quality personal statement.

Being a Michigan resident, I was really aiming for the University of Michigan, but affordability would be an issue. Any input? I applied to U of M (initially denied, waiting for update), Northwestern, UCLA, Minnesota, UC Irvine, Notre Dame, Indiana - Bloomington, University of Washington (denied), U Colorado - Boulder (waitlisted), Michigan State ($126k), and Wayne State (100% tuition).

Leah M B

It's obviously a really personal choice, but unless you are surprised with a big scholarship to a good school, I think you might be better off applying next year. It sounds like you were still improving on the LSAT. If you could bump up a few points or especially break 170 and then re-applied, you'd probably have a very different result. If scholarships are a priority to you (and I think that's a very wise choice), I think you should position yourself to have the best shot at getting a good one. What's your GPA like? That will of course also factor in.

nick1996

@"Leah M B" My GPA is at 3.63. I mentioned in an addendum that I had health issues and that since I moved out of the bio program and into finance, my GPA has been 3.92. My highest LSAT has been 168, so I am not too convinced that I can break 170, but I assume it is possible.

Scholarships are also a priority and I am weighing out everything from median salaries to tax rates in different locations. I have a spreadsheet that is driving me crazy with assumptions, haha.

calcal101

How long have you been studying? How intense were you studying? If it was a year+ at 10+ hours a week, then maybe 168 is your peak. But if it was just 6 months and you still have 5+ unused PTs, I'd retake. I took the LSAT 3x and am so grateful I did. Your GPA is solid enough that, with a 170, you could see money at lower T14s (including, possibly, Michigan).

nick1996

I'm just wondering if that is worth a year of deferred income, essentially. I'm contemplating whether I could attend a lower-rank school with a good alumni network and have the same earnings potential in a few years as a T14 student.

_oshun1_

@nick1996 said:
I'm just wondering if that is worth a year of deferred income, essentially. I'm contemplating whether I could attend a lower-rank school with a good alumni network and have the same earnings potential in a few years as a T14 student.

You might not ever have the same earning potential as a T14 student by going to a non-T14. I know people who have been practicing law for 10+ years who are just starting to break into a 125k salary at mid-law. I also had the "i'm deferring my income for a year" attitude but was really convinced that that doesnt make any sense. I'm assuming you're making (and saving) money now, and not spending 50k+ a year on tuition on a $0 salary. That like, $60k you might be making going to a mid-range school the first year you get out of law school isn't gonna stretch very far over the years.

PearsonSpecterLittUp

@"Leah M B" made a really good post about someone's data when they applied late in the cycle VS. early on and the difference is INSANE!
So check it out, and from that case alone, looks like early next cycle may be a better bet

Leah M B

I think it really depends and you don’t have all the info yet. Like, Notre Dame with a really good scholarship is a solid outcome. Michigan State and Wayne State? Maybe not. It also depends on what you want your outcome to be. Are you shooting for PI? BigLaw? Something else? If you want BigLaw, you should definitely just keep working at the LSAT until you can get it higher. If you are thinking more of an “average” employment like small to mid law making $60k after law school, then there are more schools that can get you that and you should focus on having the lowest possible debt.

Leah M B

@PearsonSpecterLittUp said:
@"Leah M B" made a really good post about someone's data when they applied late in the cycle VS. early on and the difference is INSANE!
So check it out, and from that case alone, looks like early next cycle may be a better bet

Have I told you yet how much I love your screen name? It kills me every time I see it. Loooove it. Haha.

nick1996

Right now, I am considering intellectual property and real estate law. As far as deferred income, I could earn 60-72k a year when I graduate this year and if that is my earnings potential for a while at lower law schools, is it worth it? I am less than $5k in debt at the moment and keeping that low is certainly a priority.

I will definitely have to look into the cycle data because I do not see why I was denied by the University of Washington and I have somewhat of a chance at UM, but probably only early on.

I am also concerned that I may not necessarily have a much higher potential. As a student with disabilities, I have testing accommodations that I only took advantage of once. I took the Sep, Dec, and Feb exams with the result of 152, 154, and 166. I wrote an addendum to address that and medical issues that resulted in a lower GPA my freshman and sophomore year.

nick1996

@"Leah M B"

Hard to think about salary data given my anecdotal experience around law. I had a grandfather who made partner quickly in biglaw through Detroit College of Law (which used to be more prestigious before Michigan State absorbed it to create their school) but that was many years ago.

westcoastbestcoast

@calcal101 said:
How long have you been studying? How intense were you studying? If it was a year+ at 10+ hours a week, then maybe 168 is your peak. But if it was just 6 months and you still have 5+ unused PTs, I'd retake. I took the LSAT 3x and am so grateful I did. Your GPA is solid enough that, with a 170, you could see money at lower T14s (including, possibly, Michigan).

I agree with this. It is important to know if you reached your practical peak. If you had a less than perfect LG, you should retake. If you got alot of medium and easy level LR questions wrong, particularly the MBT, Flaw and NA question types, you should retake. Even getting your scores in the high 160s, from 168 beyond, should open up the opportunity to attend T14

nick1996

My strongest section is LG with usually only 2 wrong. I have plenty to think about... Thank you, everyone!

PearsonSpecterLittUp

@"Leah M B" said:

@PearsonSpecterLittUp said:
@"Leah M B" made a really good post about someone's data when they applied late in the cycle VS. early on and the difference is INSANE!
So check it out, and from that case alone, looks like early next cycle may be a better bet

Have I told you yet how much I love your screen name? It kills me every time I see it. Loooove it. Haha.

WHY THANK YOU

Leah M B

@nick1996 said:
Right now, I am considering intellectual property and real estate law. As far as deferred income, I could earn 60-72k a year when I graduate this year and if that is my earnings potential for a while at lower law schools, is it worth it? I am less than $5k in debt at the moment and keeping that low is certainly a priority.

I will definitely have to look into the cycle data because I do not see why I was denied by the University of Washington and I have somewhat of a chance at UM, but probably only early on.

I am also concerned that I may not necessarily have a much higher potential. As a student with disabilities, I have testing accommodations that I only took advantage of once. I took the Sep, Dec, and Feb exams with the result of 152, 154, and 166. I wrote an addendum to address that and medical issues that resulted in a lower GPA my freshman and sophomore year.

Yeah, entering finance straight from undergrad would likely be a better financial decision than attending a lower-ranked law school. If you haven't already, checking out salary info on schools on LST Reports might really help. For example, here is Michigan State's: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/msu/sals/

Nearly all the graduates from there that are employed report salaries of under $100k, most in the $60k-ish range. (Not to mention the 10% or so that are unemployed.) So, that is something to consider.

It's a really complicated, personal decision of course. But I think it is wise to focus on the outcomes and what your specific goal would be. Good luck on your decision!

nick1996

Just got an offer fo 121,500 to Indiana so things may be looking a little better.

keepcalmandneuron

@nick1996 said:
Just got an offer fo 121,500 to Indiana so things may be looking a little better.

I'm just wondering if @nick1996, you made a decision already? Would love to find out what you decided to go with!!!