How did my GPA go from a 3.8 in college, a 3.9 in uni...to a 3.7 in LSAC??

_oshun1_

I finished community college with by GPA a little over a 3.8. I now have a bit over a 3.9 after a year in the university I transferred to. LSAC processed my GPA as a 3.72.

71.4 hours earned as As. 14.7 hours Bs. 3 hours C. 3 hours D.

I repeated that class I got a D in and got an A in it...signed all those forms so that the D wouldn't count against my GPA...LSAC still counts that?

I also had 4 A+s in university, I thought that LSAC bumps your GPA up with A+s?

I was thinking I would for sure have at least a 3.8 and I'd be in the 25th percentile of my top schools GPA wise and definitely be able to get merit scholarships if I did well on the LSAT. I'm actually not even in the 50th percentile (3.74 at UCLA).

I really regret going to community college, I was told even by school counselors that law schools don't even look at your community college GPA, I had no idea that D would effect my life.

*Should I rethink the schools that I apply to? Should I not even apply this year and stay a 5th year to finish my double major and get my GPA up?*

blah170blah

1. LSAC still counts that D.
2. You were misled. Law schools DEFINITELY look at your community college GPA - even those classes you took in HS.

CalPoliSci

That's just how it is. Everyone has a grade or two they regret. You're not alone in this, so you don't need to think you're being adversely disadvantaged compared to everyone else.

_oshun1_

Compared to the incoming class stats of UCLA and other schools I'm applying to I am at a disadvantage, should I not be applying to those schools now?

Lsatistheworst

Same boat man, was told by EVERY counselor that law school wouldn't look at my CC grades, and I coasted my last semester there because I had already gotten into the school I wanted to transfer to. Let me know if you write something about that in the addendum or something, I'm still debating on whether I should bring their attention to that or just let the chips fall as they may.

_oshun1_

@Lsatistheworst I withdrew from a lot of classes in CC bc I changed majors like 3x and didn't know if I was going to transfer or just get an associate's or both so I'll have to mention that in an addendum. I'll add in the GPA difference between CC and uni in there to show that I really am taking school more seriously.
School counselors are awful. I recently couldn't even get a counselor to confirm the basic math that I can take 3 classes per quarter my senior year and have enough units to graduate. I had to meet with 2 diff counselors, email another, and ended up just having the front desk person confirm that I didn't miss anything.

DallasOnFire

LSAC magic, punishing us nerds for any transgression, however small.

Errors aren't unheard of - use the calculator to verify, but it does sound roughly accurate. https://7sage.com/gpa-calculator/

_oshun1_

That GPA calculator looks pretty complicated..I'm not sure if I'll be able to find my grade %s for all my classes. I don't think my CC even did grade %s it was just a flat A, B, C, D or F.
"Quarter credit hours only count as 2/3 of semester credit hours" probably explains why my GPA was messed up. Pretty ridiculous that my General ED at CC counts more towards my GPA than higher division classes at a UC

_oshun1_

Wait should I go back and get my professors to pull up their records and tell me the exact grade percentage I got so I can calculate it? I've had a few classes where I got over a 97% but the professor just "doesn't give out A+s" and will only list an A+ if you got 100% in class

Alex

Yeah - the whole situation sucks. But like others have mentioned 1) Many people end up getting screwed by CC classes. (I got a B that will forever haunt me because I was told something similar by counselors) So you aren't alone, 2) A 3.72 is still a great GPA and I don't think you are going to be an auto-reject from anywhere you apply. So don't let it change where you apply. Let it be motivation to kill the LSAT, because at the end of the day, it counts for more anyway.

Go to MyLSN.info and type in 3.72 with your target LSAT score and you'll see that you still have a shot at Harvard on down to UCLA.

@"surfy surf" said:
Should I not even apply this year and stay a 5th year to finish my double major and get my GPA up?*

That is hard to say... I think ultimately it will be a hard choice you have to make. What will your double major be in? What law schools are you targeting? If HYS, CNN, it might be worth it if you can get your GPA up to a 3.8+ But like anything else time you'll spend going through a 5th year (and money if you're paying) also needs to be considered, so you have to consider those things as well. How much will you will able to boost your GPA with another year of all As?

That gap year might better be spent studying to kill the LSAT and gaining work experience.

Just somethings to consider... At the end of the day, a 3.7 is still a really kickass GPA and you should be proud. Law schools will also consider your upward grade trend too...

lsatblitz

Sorry to hijack the thread but I have a related question. In regards to CC, how much do law schools take degree GPA into account vs CC gpa? My CC gpa is higher than my university GPA, but they average to 3.8+. Would I get knocked for being on a bit of a downwards trend?

Jessica_Kuba

I don't understand. Like our current GPA isn't going to end up being our LSAC GPA? What the what? How did I not know this..

blah170blah

@Jessica_Kuba, your current GPA won't be your LSAC GPA if you've failed any classes (those Ds and Fs will count if they appear on your transcript, even if another class "replaced" that grade) or you've taken community college courses (those get applied as well).

Jessica_Kuba

@blah170blah, thanks for explaining. I guess I'm a little screwed, I've got one class with a D--which I retook and got an A in. This GPA thing sucks.

dantlee14

On an unrelated note/rant, Williams College (my alma mater) applicants got screwed with their LSAC GPA's this year... we have a January term in which students are encouraged to take "classes" that go outside their major or general area of study. They can range in anything from beer brewing (classified as a Chem course) to building your own desktop computer (CSCI); it's extremely liberal artsy, and very few people or profs take J-term seriously. The courses, however, are technically graded on a "High Pass, Pass, Perfunctory Pass" (HP, P, PP) scale, even though they're functionally graded on a Pass/Fail scale (I can think of extremely few cases of students receiving a HP or PP).

Lo and behold, this year LSAC decided to start converting those J-term grades and counting it against your GPA for the first time - grading a Pass (the standard grade that everyone receives) as a B, or a 3.0. Suddenly, every Williams applicant had 4 extra B grades on their transcripts, bringing down their GPA's a fair amount in the majority of cases, myself included. Our registrar tried to explain to LSAC that Williams doesn't really use the HP/P/PP scale for J-term, and to count them as A/B/C grades would be an unfair and inaccurate reflection of students' coursework, but to no avail. Now I feel even more pressure to hit the LSAT out of the park this Saturday, which is probably the exact wrong attitude to have going into the test.

TL;DR: LSAC sucks. And their method of calculating GPAs also sucks.

Alex

@dantlee14 said:
TL;DR: LSAC sucks. And their method of calculating GPAs also sucks.

sorry to hear that man...

stgl1230

@dantlee14 I know someone who went to Williams who also screwed their GPA up with that weird system. Sorry to hear that.

I think that most admissions officers are familiar with Williams though and would probably not look down on you because of it. Williams is a great school and any law school will recognize that.

TheMikey

@"surfy surf" said:
I repeated that class I got a D in and got an A in it...signed all those forms so that the D wouldn't count against my GPA...LSAC still counts that?

yes

also,

@"surfy surf" said:
I really regret going to community college, I was told even by school counselors that law schools don't even look at your community college GPA, I had no idea that D would effect my life.

was it a pre law advisor at your school? yeah, they tend to not really know what they're talking about.

Alex

Mine went from a 4.0 to a 3.92. It doesn't seem like a big deal... but I was heartbroken

DEC_LSAT

@"Alex Divine" said:
but I was heartbroken

haha 3.9 is solid but i understand that it doesn't have the same wow effect as 4.0. STILL. it's a 3.9 so congrats and be proud!

Alex

@"DEC_LSAT" said:
haha 3.9 is solid but i understand that it doesn't have the same wow effect as 4.0. STILL. it's a 3.9 so congrats and be proud!

Haha thanks! When I found out in May after I got my CAS and sent my transcripts in I was in denial for a few weeks. Now I've come to terms with it... Goodbye Yale, lol.

DEC_LSAT

@"Alex Divine" said:
Goodbye Yale, lol

yale expects a 4.0? wow. intense. i'm Canadian-- we don't have tiered schools here
i don't think we have a school that requires a 4.0

inactive

@"DEC_LSAT" said:
i'm Canadian-- we don't have tiered schools here

We do though!
http://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Canadian-Law-schools.jpg

Alex

@"DEC_LSAT" said:
yale expects a 4.0? wow. intense. i'm Canadian-- we don't have tiered schools here
i don't think we have a school that requires a 4.0

Haha Canada's law school system seems to make much more sense. Anyways, no, Yale doesn't "require" a 4.0, but it would help a LOT. lol

Alex

@"Dillon A. Wright" said:
@"DEC_LSAT" said:
i'm Canadian-- we don't have tiered schools here

We do though!


This is so interesting. I just realized that I don't know much about the Canadian law school system at all... I need to learn about it!

DEC_LSAT

@"Dillon A. Wright" said:
We do though!

Our rankings are not like the Americans though. You can be successful graduating from any Canadian law school and tuition doesn't range as much here based on the school (U of T is the anamoly)! Plus, the rankings are subjective since it depends on the type of law you're interested in and every school offers something unique and has its concentrations.

DEC_LSAT

@"Alex Divine" said:
4.0, but it would help a LOT. lol

pretty sure that's a given haha

inactive

@"DEC_LSAT" said:
Our rankings are not like the Americans though. You can be successful graduating from any Canadian law school and tuition doesn't range as much here based on the school (U of T is the anamoly)! Plus, the rankings are subjective since it depends on the type of law you're interested in and every school offers something unique and has its concentrations.

True.

Alex

@"DEC_LSAT" said:
Our rankings are not like the Americans though. You can be successful graduating from any Canadian law school and tuition doesn't range as much here based on the school (U of T is the anamoly)! Plus, the rankings are subjective since it depends on the type of law you're interested in and every school offers something unique and has its concentrations.

*Packs up bag and moves to Canada*

This is the way it should be here too... Too bad it is basically the exact opposite.

Cant Get Right

@"Alex Divine" said:
Let it be motivation to kill the LSAT, because at the end of the day, it counts for more anyway.

Here it is!

@"Alex Divine" said:
Goodbye Yale, lol.

Nah, just make sure they know you're B. O'Drama and you'll be fine!

Alex

@"Cant Get Right" said:
Nah, just make sure they know you're B. O'Drama and you'll be fine!

my entire 250 is about that, haha.

youngprophetable

Do withdraws count against you?

helenamc80

Question on this, if you have a masters do they take the GPA of just your undergrad or do they take your masters into account as well?

Leah M B

@helenamc80 said:
Question on this, if you have a masters do they take the GPA of just your undergrad or do they take your masters into account as well?

No, grad school grades do not count toward your GPA. Only undergraduate up until your first bachelor’s is achieved. I think you still have to turn in transcripts, but it wouldn’t be included in your GPA calculation.

Seeking Perfection

The LSAT grade system is certainly a little messed up.

But any classes at undergraduate institutions before your first bachelor's degree is awarded count including classes taken at a community college and those taken during high school, A+'s count as a 4.33(https://www.lsac.org/jd/help/faqs-cas), and failed classes count.

CoolDude

I once had a GPA of around 3.7 in CC and 3.4 in university. I had a few failing grades in CC because I was pursuing a different major at the time. Now this is going to haunt me. What a great day to wake up to.

Lsatkayy

@Alex said:
Yeah - the whole situation sucks. But like others have mentioned 1) Many people end up getting screwed by CC classes. (I got a B that will forever haunt me because I was told something similar by counselors) So you aren't alone, 2) A 3.72 is still a great GPA and I don't think you are going to be an auto-reject from anywhere you apply. So don't let it change where you apply. Let it be motivation to kill the LSAT, because at the end of the day, it counts for more anyway.

Go to MyLSN.info and type in 3.72 with your target LSAT score and you'll see that you still have a shot at Harvard on down to UCLA. @"surfy surf" said:
Should I not even apply this year and stay a 5th year to finish my double major and get my GPA up?*

The LSAT sis more important? I always thought it was 50/50

Lsatkayy

@Lsatkayy said:

@Alex said:
Yeah - the whole situation sucks. But like others have mentioned 1) Many people end up getting screwed by CC classes. (I got a B that will forever haunt me because I was told something similar by counselors) So you aren't alone, 2) A 3.72 is still a great GPA and I don't think you are going to be an auto-reject from anywhere you apply. So don't let it change where you apply. Let it be motivation to kill the LSAT, because at the end of the day, it counts for more anyway.

Go to MyLSN.info and type in 3.72 with your target LSAT score and you'll see that you still have a shot at Harvard on down to UCLA. @"surfy surf" said:
Should I not even apply this year and stay a 5th year to finish my double major and get my GPA up?*

The LSAT sis more important? I always thought it was 50/50

the LSAT is*

Alex

@Lsatkayy said:

@Alex said:
Yeah - the whole situation sucks. But like others have mentioned 1) Many people end up getting screwed by CC classes. (I got a B that will forever haunt me because I was told something similar by counselors) So you aren't alone, 2) A 3.72 is still a great GPA and I don't think you are going to be an auto-reject from anywhere you apply. So don't let it change where you apply. Let it be motivation to kill the LSAT, because at the end of the day, it counts for more anyway.

Go to MyLSN.info and type in 3.72 with your target LSAT score and you'll see that you still have a shot at Harvard on down to UCLA. @"surfy surf" said:
Should I not even apply this year and stay a 5th year to finish my double major and get my GPA up?*

The LSAT is* more important? I always thought it was 50/50

Nope. LSAT undoubtedly counts for more than GPA. The reason is that there are a ton of applicants with high GPAs whereas high LSATs are far more rare. Furthermore, there are so many different undergrad majors that law schools treat the LSAT as a stronger indictor of how you're likely to perform.

Still, GPA is super important! All else equal though LSAT seems to be weighted much more.