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possibility of a 6 point increase in one month?

lavender robbinslavender robbins Alum Member
in General 65 karma

After finishing the CC and taking various separate sections over the course of June, I took my first full timed test today and hit a 160. I went -17 LR, -7 games, -5 RC (the test had a -14 curve luckily) With my target score being a 166, what is the likelihood of me hitting this by the July 23 test? Also, any recommendations on how I should best approach this goal? Thanks for the insight.

Comments

  • LastLSATLastLSAT Alum Member
    edited June 2018 1028 karma

    That will be a very tough jump to make in this time frame. It may be doable, but you would be doing yourself a huge favor by delaying for September or November. For what it's worth, I made a 7 point increase between my December and February tests last year (though I had 6+ months of full-time study under my belt).

    Looks like your best bet would be to foolproof LG hard and do intense BR for LR. You might be able to get games down to - 0 before July and make a dent in your LR weakness, if you take it seriously. That could get you to 166.

    It will be harder to improve LR and especially RC in such a short time. Is your issue on LR timing or accuracy? Also, was your diagnostic test a modern one? This can have some impact on perceived LR/RC difficulty for some people.

    Finally, why shoot for just 166? If your diagnostic was 160, you could (and should) be shooting for 170+ easily. Even if you don't want T14, a 170+ score could buy you a free education...

  • lavender robbinslavender robbins Alum Member
    65 karma

    Thanks for the advice. My issue on LR is mainly accuracy and yes, it was prep test 71.

  • _oshun1__oshun1_ Alum Member
    3652 karma

    If you're studying full time then sure it could happen. But, like LastLSAT said, if you are able to hit a 166+ by July, why not aim for 170+ at a later test date?

  • OhnoeshalpmeOhnoeshalpme Alum Member
    2531 karma

    With a -5 RC, you should see it as a great opportunity to improve. You can probably drop LG to a consistent -2 or better before July but probably can only net a few LR points by then. In my opinion, if you can move from -17 to -14 in LR and -7 to -2 in LG, then I think you're in great shape.

    That level of improvement seems possible to me and would bring you up to the mid 160's. It will require a lot of LG fool-proofing and a lot of LR drilling.

  • samantha.ashley92samantha.ashley92 Alum Member
    1777 karma

    Going from 160 to 166 requires you to get another 9-10 questions right. It would be impossible for me to make that jump. I'm not saying it would be impossible for you, but you'd probably have to put in at least 200 hours of studying. Why not delay?

  • xtinextinextinextine Alum Member
    856 karma

    Regarding the likelihood, I don't think I can really say -- but regardless, I'd definitely recommend looking at the analytics and drilling the LR question types you're having issues with. I also struggle with LR and have just printed out tons of drill sets! If this is your first preptest post-CC, also make sure you thoroughly blind review so you understand the questions you missed before taking another PT.

  • lavender robbinslavender robbins Alum Member
    65 karma

    I’m gonna put in 180 hours. Will see what happens

  • 1000001910000019 Alum Member
    3279 karma

    I was able to do that.
    I got a 160 on a PT and then a month later a 168 on the real thing.

    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/13544/impromptu-signed-up-for-december-blogish

  • OhnoeshalpmeOhnoeshalpme Alum Member
    2531 karma

    @10000019 said:
    I was able to do that.
    I got a 160 on a PT and then a month later a 168 on the real thing.

    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/13544/impromptu-signed-up-for-december-blogish

    What do you attribute your RC success to?

  • lavender robbinslavender robbins Alum Member
    65 karma

    @10000019 said:
    I was able to do that.
    I got a 160 on a PT and then a month later a 168 on the real thing.

    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/13544/impromptu-signed-up-for-december-blogish

    only difference between me and you is, you are naturally good at LR. How do you score like that on LR/how can I improve

  • JustDoItJustDoIt Alum Member
    3112 karma

    As others have said, it is unlikely. Don't take unless you are completely ready. Drill LR, focus on your weaknesses, and develop good habits. If you are not ready for July, take your mind off it and regroup later.

  • 1000001910000019 Alum Member
    edited June 2018 3279 karma

    @Ohnoeshalpme said:

    @10000019 said:
    I was able to do that.
    I got a 160 on a PT and then a month later a 168 on the real thing.

    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/13544/impromptu-signed-up-for-december-blogish

    What do you attribute your RC success to?

    I did almost nothing for RC. I skimmed the LSAT Trainer, but that was after I had already taken PTs. I didn't have time to review the 7sage course. I had a slump that luckily didn't show up on the actual exam. I went from -0 to -10 on consecutive PTs.

    @"lavender robbins" said:

    @10000019 said:
    I was able to do that.
    I got a 160 on a PT and then a month later a 168 on the real thing.

    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/13544/impromptu-signed-up-for-december-blogish

    only difference between me and you is, you are naturally good at LR. How do you score like that on LR/how can I improve

    I don't consider -14 on my first PT as naturally good. For me the more questions I attempted the better I got.
    Post your sectional scores and the type of questions you're getting wrong for specific advice.

  • testfromawaytestfromaway Alum Member
    280 karma

    Take another PT. And another one. One data point is not enough to gauge where your weaknesses are, or what you truly need to do going forward. Maybe this test had something that particularly played to your strengths, and your actual average is lower. Maybe this test had something that weakened you, and your actual average is higher.

    And then, no matter what the numbers look like, study. There's no schedule for how fast someone can or will improve, and every situation is unique to the individual. The only way to do well is to do the work.You got this!

  • iamcardibriiamcardibri Alum Member
    edited June 2018 314 karma

    I don't have a recommendation... Just here to say that I feel you!

    I'm taking July and I've had my head in the books since April, though I've studied off and on for almost a year now. With the big day approaching I'm freaking. out. I'm striving for a high 160 but my scores have been stagnant in the low 160s for the past 6 PTs I've completed :neutral: My LR and LG are pretty stable but my RC has fluctuated wildly from -3 a couple weeks ago to -11 (WTF?!?!) a couple days ago.

    I can't tell you how to increase your score by 6 points in a month but I can tell that I'll be trying my best to do the same. The only way that I see either of us pulling it off is by working really really hard. Every moment that I sit here thinking about whether such a jump is even possible, what my strategy should be, what scores will get me into what schools, contemplating life itself, etc.... is precious time wasted. I'd say there's a ~10% chance that such a large jump will happen for us. But more importantly, I'd say that 100% chance that it WON'T happen if we waste any time worrying about it.

    Sorry, this has turned into a pep talk directed at myself haha.

    We've already missed the deadline to change the date to September and our only option at this point would be to withdraw. I'm trying my best to look at July as an exciting challenge and opportunity. And if worse comes to worse, there is always September!

    That said, I gotta get back to work! BR is calling my name :smiley: WE CAN DO THIS!!!

  • lavender robbinslavender robbins Alum Member
    65 karma

    @iamcardibri said:
    I don't have a recommendation... Just here to say that I feel you!

    I'm taking July and I've had my head in the books since April, though I've studied off and on for almost a year now. With the big day approaching I'm freaking. out. I'm striving for a high 160 but my scores have been stagnant in the low 160s for the past 6 PTs I've completed :neutral: My LR and LG are pretty stable but my RC has fluctuated wildly from -3 a couple weeks ago to -11 (WTF?!?!) a couple days ago.

    I can't tell you how to increase your score by 6 points in a month but I can tell that I'll be trying my best to do the same. The only way that I see either of us pulling it off is by working really really hard. Every moment that I sit here thinking about whether such a jump is even possible, what my strategy should be, what scores will get me into what schools, contemplating life itself, etc.... is precious time wasted. I'd say there's a ~10% chance that such a large jump will happen for us. But more importantly, I'd say that 100% chance that it WON'T happen if we waste any time worrying about it.

    Sorry, this has turned into a pep talk directed at myself haha.

    We've already missed the deadline to change the date to September and our only option at this point would be to withdraw. I'm trying my best to look at July as an exciting challenge and opportunity. And if worse comes to worse, there is always September!

    That said, I gotta get back to work! BR is calling my name :smiley: WE CAN DO THIS!!!

    hahaha you better frickin believe it cardi bri, we gon show it whose boss

  • 1000001910000019 Alum Member
    3279 karma

    @"lavender robbins" Hey how is studying going? Are you getting close to your target score?

  • Bianca1234-1Bianca1234-1 Alum Member
    69 karma

    @JustDoIt said:
    As others have said, it is unlikely. Don't take unless you are completely ready. Drill LR, focus on your weaknesses, and develop good habits. If you are not ready for July, take your mind off it and regroup later.

    I disagree. I think you should take just so that you get used to sitting down for the test. The last thing you would want is to be prepared but not be accustomed to testing conditions and variables. There is no limit on how many times you can retake anymore, and you could always cancel.

  • lavender robbinslavender robbins Alum Member
    65 karma

    @10000019 said:
    @"lavender robbins" Hey how is studying going? Are you getting close to your target score?

    im pretty inconsistent. ill go from a 158 to 163 the next day. i have a hard time being consistent with all three sections. Sometime they play to my strengths and sometimes they don't. Trying to get to the point where I'm consistent everyday

  • JustDoItJustDoIt Alum Member
    3112 karma

    @KLGMK550 said:

    @JustDoIt said:
    As others have said, it is unlikely. Don't take unless you are completely ready. Drill LR, focus on your weaknesses, and develop good habits. If you are not ready for July, take your mind off it and regroup later.

    I disagree. I think you should take just so that you get used to sitting down for the test. The last thing you would want is to be prepared but not be accustomed to testing conditions and variables. There is no limit on how many times you can retake anymore, and you could always cancel.

    I strongly disagree. Admissions deans from HYS have said on several different occasions that you should only take when you’re ready. It creates a data point that demonstrates lack of commitment. These schools in particular have advocated that you should only take it once and max twice. I literally heard Dean Faye say this in person. Same goes for Yale admissions. Harvard is a little more ambiguous but I digress. Further why would someone want to go through the experience of taking it just to take it? Would you run a marathon tomorrow if you haven’t prepared as much as you can just to get a feel for it?

  • Simple ManSimple Man Alum Member
    448 karma

    @JustDoIt said:

    @KLGMK550 said:

    @JustDoIt said:
    As others have said, it is unlikely. Don't take unless you are completely ready. Drill LR, focus on your weaknesses, and develop good habits. If you are not ready for July, take your mind off it and regroup later.

    I disagree. I think you should take just so that you get used to sitting down for the test. The last thing you would want is to be prepared but not be accustomed to testing conditions and variables. There is no limit on how many times you can retake anymore, and you could always cancel.

    I strongly disagree. Admissions deans from HYS have said on several different occasions that you should only take when you’re ready. It creates a data point that demonstrates lack of commitment. These schools in particular have advocated that you should only take it once and max twice. I literally heard Dean Faye say this in person. Same goes for Yale admissions. Harvard is a little more ambiguous but I digress. Further why would someone want to go through the experience of taking it just to take it? Would you run a marathon tomorrow if you haven’t prepared as much as you can just to get a feel for it?

    I'm with @KLGMK550 . Not everyone is trying to get into HYS. These schools may be the exception, but they are not the rule. Most schools only care about your top score, it boosts their admission standards. If anything, I think taking it multiple times demonstrates a strong commitment to achieving the score you know you are capable of.

    You could study the theory of snowboarding for years, but you'll never actually snowboard until you strap in and just do it to get used to the conditions. Who knows, maybe you go in and get lucky. Either way, you'll be more prepared for the next time. Be as prepared as you can obviously, but I think too many people stall or become anxious about the actual test day. Even the most prepared can have a bad test day, or pull a mental muscle from burnout. This too, will result in a retake.

    Just take it and see what happens! You already payed, you might as well :wink:

  • JustDoItJustDoIt Alum Member
    3112 karma

    @"Simple Man" said:

    @JustDoIt said:

    @KLGMK550 said:

    @JustDoIt said:
    As others have said, it is unlikely. Don't take unless you are completely ready. Drill LR, focus on your weaknesses, and develop good habits. If you are not ready for July, take your mind off it and regroup later.

    I disagree. I think you should take just so that you get used to sitting down for the test. The last thing you would want is to be prepared but not be accustomed to testing conditions and variables. There is no limit on how many times you can retake anymore, and you could always cancel.

    I strongly disagree. Admissions deans from HYS have said on several different occasions that you should only take when you’re ready. It creates a data point that demonstrates lack of commitment. These schools in particular have advocated that you should only take it once and max twice. I literally heard Dean Faye say this in person. Same goes for Yale admissions. Harvard is a little more ambiguous but I digress. Further why would someone want to go through the experience of taking it just to take it? Would you run a marathon tomorrow if you haven’t prepared as much as you can just to get a feel for it?

    I'm with @KLGMK550 . Not everyone is trying to get into HYS. These schools may be the exception, but they are not the rule. Most schools only care about your top score, it boosts their admission standards. If anything, I think taking it multiple times demonstrates a strong commitment to achieving the score you know you are capable of.

    You could study the theory of snowboarding for years, but you'll never actually snowboard until you strap in and just do it to get used to the conditions. Who knows, maybe you go in and get lucky. Either way, you'll be more prepared for the next time. Be as prepared as you can obviously, but I think too many people stall or become anxious about the actual test day. Even the most prepared can have a bad test day, or pull a mental muscle from burnout. This too, will result in a retake.

    Just take it and see what happens! You already payed, you might as well :wink:

    Maybe but you wouldn’t snowboard as well as you would have if you spent more time practicing and that the problem. No one “just gets lucky.” Plus on top of that the analogy still stands: you wouldn’t enter snowboarding race or trick competition if you hadn’t adequately prepared.

    Also the reason why it’s worth mentioning HYS is not simply because one should shoot for those schools, but because those schools are the standard.

  • 1000001910000019 Alum Member
    3279 karma

    Keep it up OP. Hope you reach that target before test day.

    @JustDoIt said:
    Also the reason why it’s worth mentioning HYS is not simply because one should shoot for those schools, but because those schools are the standard.

    How are those schools standard? In this context, 'standard' denotes average. The admissions criteria at the top three schools isn't remotely close to the average.

  • JustDoItJustDoIt Alum Member
    3112 karma

    @10000019 In this context, ‘standard’ does not denote average. Standard as in general admissions practices not necessarily numbers.

  • 1000001910000019 Alum Member
    3279 karma

    @JustDoIt said:
    @10000019 In this context, ‘standard’ does not denote average. Standard as in general admissions practices not necessarily numbers.

    The admissions practice at HYS are not reflective of the admissions practices at other schools. Even then, should we take what those schools have to say at face value?

    https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/do-law-schools-view-multiple-lsat-attempts-as-a-negative

  • Simple ManSimple Man Alum Member
    448 karma

    @JustDoIt People do get lucky though. Everybody can have an outlier day well above or below their average scoring range. If you don't take the test you could have missed the opportunity to beat your average and move on towards the application process.

    You would enter an upcoming competition being as prepared as you can be for that competition. Just because you aren't guaranteed a medal doesn't mean you shouldn't participate and gain the experience for next time. Even a last place finish would just light a fire under my ass and make me hungry for next time.

    HYS are great schools, but I doubt they're the "standard". Say it takes me 3 attempts to get a 170+. HYS may deny me for taking it more than once, good for them. Plenty of other great schools are not going to turn down a 170+ score, and will give me scholarship money on top of that. I'll be looking back on my last place finish with fond memories, proud of how far I went.

  • samantha.ashley92samantha.ashley92 Alum Member
    1777 karma

    Out of curiosity, how much have you improved so far? I can't believe that test was curved so much! That's insane! I would've freaked out on test day if it was that hard and probably wouldn't have done my best-- regardless of the curve.

  • Bianca1234-1Bianca1234-1 Alum Member
    69 karma

    @JustDoIt said:

    @"Simple Man" said:

    @JustDoIt said:

    @KLGMK550 said:

    @JustDoIt said:
    As others have said, it is unlikely. Don't take unless you are completely ready. Drill LR, focus on your weaknesses, and develop good habits. If you are not ready for July, take your mind off it and regroup later.

    I disagree. I think you should take just so that you get used to sitting down for the test. The last thing you would want is to be prepared but not be accustomed to testing conditions and variables. There is no limit on how many times you can retake anymore, and you could always cancel.

    I strongly disagree. Admissions deans from HYS have said on several different occasions that you should only take when you’re ready. It creates a data point that demonstrates lack of commitment. These schools in particular have advocated that you should only take it once and max twice. I literally heard Dean Faye say this in person. Same goes for Yale admissions. Harvard is a little more ambiguous but I digress. Further why would someone want to go through the experience of taking it just to take it? Would you run a marathon tomorrow if you haven’t prepared as much as you can just to get a feel for it?

    I'm with @KLGMK550 . Not everyone is trying to get into HYS. These schools may be the exception, but they are not the rule. Most schools only care about your top score, it boosts their admission standards. If anything, I think taking it multiple times demonstrates a strong commitment to achieving the score you know you are capable of.

    You could study the theory of snowboarding for years, but you'll never actually snowboard until you strap in and just do it to get used to the conditions. Who knows, maybe you go in and get lucky. Either way, you'll be more prepared for the next time. Be as prepared as you can obviously, but I think too many people stall or become anxious about the actual test day. Even the most prepared can have a bad test day, or pull a mental muscle from burnout. This too, will result in a retake.

    Just take it and see what happens! You already payed, you might as well :wink:

    Maybe but you wouldn’t snowboard as well as you would have if you spent more time practicing and that the problem. No one “just gets lucky.” Plus on top of that the analogy still stands: you wouldn’t enter snowboarding race or trick competition if you hadn’t adequately prepared.

    Also the reason why it’s worth mentioning HYS is not simply because one should shoot for those schools, but because those schools are the standard.

    It's generally acknowledged that schools only care about the highest score you earn, which is the score they have to report. Law school is a numbers-driven game. Unless you retake so many times it boarders on mental-illness, I highly doubt anyone would think twice about seeing multiple scores. I don't care what the dean says, unless your prepared to demonstrate that HYS conforms to that belief, their opinion holds little weight. Even if this was the standard for elite schools there are still countless others where this simply isn't the case.

    I also don't completely agree with your analogy. There are plenty of people who run in marathons and don't actually finish. In fact, actually running one is the best way to gauge your performance and prepare for future competitions. Unlike the LSAT, you can run in unofficial races that simulate the real deal. The same applies to snowboarding competitions. To my knowledge, there are no "unofficial lsat" days where you can actually simulate the same thing. Taking a practice test and attempting to emulate actual testing conditions isn't always sufficient, especially when you haven't even experienced them beforehand.

    Assuming what you said about HYS is even true, whose to say that multiple attempts at the LSAT looks worse than failing to obtain your max score? If test-day conditions causes the OP to miss 5+ questions more than they otherwise would have, are you honestly going to sit here and advise them not to retake because it may look bad? Also, keep in mind that we're quickly approaching the end of the year. A lot of people don't want to wait until December to submit applications. If OP waits until September or November to take their first test, and something goes wrong they may be locked out of schools they would otherwise have been admitted to.

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