Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- 33.4K All Categories
- 28.1K LSAT
- 17.1K General
- 5.2K Logical Reasoning
- 1.4K Reading Comprehension
- 1.7K Logic Games
- 70 Podcasts
- 191 Webinars
- 10 Scholarships
- 194 Test Center Reviews
- 2.2K Study Groups
- 112 Study Guides/Cheat Sheets
- 2.5K Specific LSAT Dates
- 31 November 2024 LSAT
- 18 October 2024 LSAT
- 9 September 2024 LSAT
- 38 August 2024 LSAT
- 28 June 2024 LSAT
- 4 April 2024 LSAT
- 11 February 2024 LSAT
- 22 January 2024 LSAT
- 38 November 2023 LSAT
- 43 October 2023 LSAT
- 14 September 2023 LSAT
- 38 August 2023 LSAT
- 27 June 2023 LSAT
- 30 Sage Advice
- 5K Not LSAT
- 4K Law School Admissions
- 13 Law School Explained
- 10 Forum Rules
- 641 Technical Problems
- 286 Off-topic
Related Discussions
Logic Games Timing for High scorers?
Small_victories
Free Trial Member
Hello,
I have several questions for those who score close to -0 on Logic Games.
Do you usually have time left over at the end of the section? How much time do you have left and how do you make use of that time?
Do you ever skip questions or games and how do you decide to make that decision?
How much time do you spend on the first two games? Is it recommended to get them done in less than 13 minutes so that I have at least 22 minutes for the last two games? I know that sometimes Game 2 can be really time consuming, but since usually game 1 can be done quickly, I am wondering if you have a max. time limit for games 1 and 2, even given the circumstances that game 2 is difficult.
I ask this question because I usually find myself at 15min at the end of game 2 and I often run out of time by the time I am at game 4.
Thank you so much for reading this.
Comments
The best way I can describe my approach is to say that it works for me. A ton of the pacing side of LSAT prep is what works for an individual, what an individual's "groove" is, the idea being to recreate this "groove" come test day and the exam will feel like another PT. For me personally, I like to finish the first two game within 13-14 minutes with full confidence without having to look back with bubbling done and quickly double checked. This gives me some iteration of an 11-11 minute split for the 3rd and 4th games, or a 10--11 minute split, that to me is ideal. Obviously, if I can get to the 3rd game with 12 minutes elapsed (rare, but doable) that would be great, but I like to have at least 21 minutes remaining.
I know I am in the red zone, the danger zone if I finish or have not yet finished the second game at the 15 minute range: giving me about 20 minutes for the final two games: a 10-10 split. Not the end of the world, but I better pick things up. If I see anything below 20 minutes remaining and I am not done with that second game: it is time to skip whatever questions I have not answered, cut my loses and go on to the 3rd and 4th games with the 9-10 split, fully intending to try to come back to those first two games, I simply cannot let an issue carry over from one game to the next due to time.
I rarely have more than 45 seconds to a minute left over. For me, games has always been something I needed basically all the time on.
This general time approach is a bit looser than I've seen others adopt and maybe tweaking it a bit will allow me to get from my current score on record to a mid 170s score, but nonetheless, it has worked for me.
David
Thank you so much, David!
It is super helpful to read about your general approach and I hope to find my groove in logic games too.
Recently, I got so stuck on game 2 (where I spent 14 minutes on that game alone and still missed 3 questions) that I had less than 16 minutes for the last two five-star games (dinosaurs and awards!!).
I should have skipped Game 2 at 8 minute mark, or even earlier. Game 2 is labeled a level 2 game but I couldn't figure out the key inference and the limited scenarios and ended up brute forcing through all answer choices. I made mistakes while brute forcing too. :'( Hopefully in the next PT, I will be wise enough to skip a game if it doesn't click within 5 minutes.
Thank you!!
there was never any breakthrough moment for me, I eventually just started scoring better and better until I averaged around-1. I usually finish with 1-5 min to spare, and I just methodically move thru the game, and I apply rules in a systematic way so the result is always the same. just keep working at it, because theres no single gameplan that works for every game, you just need to learn to adapt and that comes from experience.
I think you have it backwards, you get better at LG and that leads to a better time. You cant really reverse the flow here, focusing on timing your sections to score better. Just keep practicing, blind reviewing and reviewing the course, and you will def see improvement! it took me prob 130+ LG sections (600 games) to get close to perfect.
there def are timing stratigies if your aiming for a lot less than perfect tho, mostly just picking your battles and focusing on the easier games, allowing yourself to skip more time consuming stuff, you should def be doing this if your not averaging close to -0
make sure to review the core c + BR to master the many strategies!
I've never been a perfect scorer on LG but at my peak was consistently around -2. I stayed stuck at about -4/-5 for a while when I realized that rule substitution questions were a huge time suck for me. I decided to start skipping them and my score automatically went up to around the -2/-3 range. I realized I had let those questions drag me down so that by the time I got to game 4, I usually only had around 5-6 minutes left and was lucky to answer 1 or 2 questions correctly. Skipping rule subs gave me enough time to actually do the last game and occasionally with time to spare to go back and do the rule subs I skipped. I later tweaked it to reading the rule sub question and answering if it jumped out right away and skipping if it didn't. That usually would leave me with less time at the end, but less need to have to go back to earlier games and was a wash in accuracy.
I agree with this. Also, just formatting your game boards in a clean way (I.e, they are legible and in order), and then do all the additional premise questions first (If X is here, where does Y go?), and then going back and doing the acceptable situation questions (which of the following MBT/MBF/CBT/CBF/where can Y go?) you can use your boards to eliminate many or all wrong answers without any work. This is also very helpful because for the rule substitution question cuz even if your gonna skip and guess you can often skim your boards and eliminate 2-3 choices because they directly violate boards which you know are legitimate, and get down to around a 50% chance with only a few seconds of work.
Looking back I may also be able to give you more specific feedback. Generally speaking, are you struggling with games with few available game boards and big inferences, or games that are wide open that are usually just guess and check over and over again? Approaches to improving could be different depending
It depends on how cautious of a test-taker you are. I think J.Y. and many other top scorers just move on after they are sure that they picked the correct answer instead of checking every answer choice so they finish much quicker than I do. I generally take up the entire 35 minutes since I tend to make sure to eliminate every incorrect answer even after I am 90% sure of the correct choice. I go consistent -0s for LGs with this method since I basically eliminate the possibility of careless mistakes.
I don't use the skipping method since it increases the possibility of misbubbling, but many others recommended skipping the rule substitution questions. Try out both to see what you prefer.
I think this really really varies on the section. My first official LSAT, game 1 took me 10 mins but I was pretty calm since it meant that the later games would be fairly quick. My second official test, game 1 through 3 took altogether 18 minutes and game 4 took me 17 (¯_(ツ)_/¯). Think I went -0 on LG both times so I think the key is to not set mental limits on how long to take on a game and be flexible. Most of all, stay calm.
I think being at 15 mins at the end of game 2 sounds about where I was at for a typical section. At a certain point, you really can't get much faster rushing through games 1 and 2. You just need to be better at finishing games 3 and 4 under 20 minutes. Just keep fool-proofing and you'll get there.
Thank you so much for your advice, guys!
@"Sam Tyler"
Thank you. I struggle with both
. But I think I struggle with the big inference games more, because when I fail to make those inferences, I freeze through the whole game.
I struggle with wide open games too, because I am usually anxiously wondering if I missed a critical inference that makes that game actually limited, as opposed to open.
I'm aiming for -4 average.
I like Logic games but have struggled with timing since the beginning. So before I got to timing, I worked on accuracy. I worked on being able to go -1 or often -0 with unlimited time. This helped me realize that with in and out and grouping games some of the logic fundamentals were lacking or weren't as second nature to me as they should have been, so I worked on that. I took the November LSAT and I am planning on retaking January, but the only section I felt good on was logic games. Before the test I worked really hard on fool proofing games and getting the timing down before the test. But I also worked on strategy, here are some tips that helped me.
Really work on going for the low hanging fruit first- I saw this best when doing full sections ( particularly under time) so it made it easier to skip a question or even a full game and go back
As you are putting down the rules, try to repeat the rule in your mind and also using it to eliminate choices for the acceptable situation question
As you are putting down rules, think about if the game divides easily, should you make a sub game board or two? In practice, sometimes I will split out games boards up to 4 like JY does in the videos, but under timed pressure I feel I am too slow and make too many mistakes to do this. Maybe 2 to 3 game boards at most, but I don't always split or make sub game boards at all.
Particularly if you are not going to split try to answer with additional premises first, because often you set up an additional sub game board or make an important inference from these questions, sometimes the premise alone gives you information which will help you solve a must be true question. For example Question 3 says "If H is in 3 what could be true?" But question 4 is a must be true and answer choice A says " F is in 3", obliviously you know that doesn't have to be true as you saw an additional premise which gave a different choice for spot 3.
Substitution of rules questions as others have mentioned are difficult. On the November test, I was able to quickly eliminate 3 answers so I crossed those out and then came back to that question later.
The more game you work the more you start to see inferences that will be asked about. For example you are working on an in and out game with the following rules ( among others):
A question might ask what is an example of a pair that can not be in the in group?
One of the answer choices would be: F&H- the inference that is being counted on is that you realize if you have F you have G and G can't go together.
Some of the difference in top scorers here is that they don't need to make a sub game board and also don't need to check each answer choice
If you have read the discussion forums you may have read about the mining game that was on the November test that alot of people were complaining about. This was the third game of this prep test. The first two games weren't bad, there was a rule substitution. I eliminated 3 answer choices and moved on but answered all the other questions. When I got to the mining game, I didn't see what the game board should look like right away. I spent 30 seconds maybe a minute, trying to come up with a game board and then moved on to game 4. Best choice I could have made as game 4 was a simple sequence game and I got through it quickly. When I finished I answered the substitution game 2 question with about 80% confidence and then back to the mining game. I still didn't see the gameboard as I thought but didn't freak out and followed the rules. I did get an answer down for every question. I don't think I will go minus zero but I feel like if I keep practicing come January I can.
@FindingSage
Thanks so much for the helpful tips. I will incorporate them into my prep!
I can say from experience that you need to learn how to cope with a section that is not going well. For me, the test-day-nerves never completely went away for LG, so I had to make sure I knew what to do when it wasn't going perfectly and I was panicking.
For me this involved getting really clear on setting up correctly, accurately, and in a helpful way. This means you can confidently go for the low hanging fruit on a more difficult game.
You also have to time yourself and get a real solid feel for when you - personally - need to skip questions/games (IMO).
Usually -0, but -1 on occasion.
Almost always have time left over, up to 6/7 min depending on the set. If ever I score -1, it coincides with running out of time. Using my extra time: 1st - double check rule substitutions, 2nd - quickly double check my bubbling (I mis-bubbled on a PT once, and the thought still haunts me, so this may be specific to my personal anxieties), 3rd - I start double checking questions in order of which games gave me any hiccups.
I do not skip any questions. I have tried working the questions with additional premises first, but it doesn't seem to affect my time. Sometimes the straight up MBT/MBF questions lead you to an inference you may have missed - and those make other questions quicker - and if you didn't miss it, then it takes only a few seconds to answer.
With every question in LG, I move on after I find the right answer. Immediately. Usually most get double checked during extra time. Not checking every answer choice gives you so much extra time.
Not sure where you are in your studying, but make sure that you are consistently -0 without time limits before setting this goal with time constraints. Having full confidence in your game board and your inferences keeps you from questioning yourself so much - that saves tons of time.