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165 (September) –> 167 (January), 3.70 GPA. Chances at t20 for next cycle?

ALLCAA123ALLCAA123 Alum Member
in Law School Admissions 125 karma

Hi everyone,

I'm curious what you think. I want to practice law in the midwest or south, and I'm looking at schools like WUSTL, Vandy, and UT-Austin. I might send an app to GULC/Cornell just for the hell of it– I'm leaning a little toward NY BigLaw; not sure at this point, but if I get in at a t15 northeastern school, I'd heavily consider it. In addition to my gpa/lsat, I have cookie-cutter softs for a law school applicant, and assume average LORs and personal statement. I have some part-time work experience from undergrad and I'm taking a gap year to work as a court clerk before going to law school.

What do you guys think about my chances at the schools listed? I tried MyLSN and 7sage's predictor, but they're giving conflicting reports. 7sage says that I'd have ~80% chance at WUSTL, but the MyLSN graph shows a lot of people with my stats getting waitlisted/rejected. Also, are the 2019 ABA 509 reports for schools the official stats/medians for next cycle (fall 2020), or will schools come out with Class of 2023 stats later this year as the new application window opens?

Thank you all. I owe my improvement to 7sage!

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Comments

  • lexxx745lexxx745 Alum Member Sage ⭐
    3190 karma

    I dont think 7sage predictor is that accurate just a rough estimate, personally i think MyLSN would be more accurate.

    I mean its tough, assuming average softs LOR resume, etc I think u could get into one or two t15 if you apply incredibly early. But it also wouldnt be surprising for you to get into none. Is a third retake out of the question? I mean you already improved from 165-167 just 1 extra point could be huge. What have your PT scores been?

  • ALLCAA123ALLCAA123 Alum Member
    125 karma

    @lexxx745 said:
    I dont think 7sage predictor is that accurate just a rough estimate, personally i think MyLSN would be more accurate.

    I mean its tough, assuming average softs LOR resume, etc I think u could get into one or two t15 if you apply incredibly early. But it also wouldnt be surprising for you to get into none. Is a third retake out of the question? I mean you already improved from 165-167 just 1 extra point could be huge. What have your PT scores been?

    Thanks! My PT scores have been all over the place. There was a time when I had high 160s/low 170s, then I dropped down to the low 160s for more recent PTs (namely for PT 75 through 89). I might add, on both takes, I was unable to sleep for the whole night. Went into both exams with 0 hours of sleep– unintentional all-nighters. I tried everything. I exercised vigorously (2 hours of fast swimming and weights), followed my regular routine, took sleeping aids, and nothing worked. By the time I got to section 5 for both exams, I was guessing at the LR problems, going by gut feeling and flagging a ton of questions. I burned 3 minutes on a single 'justify the principle' question for my 167 take :neutral: Luckily RC and LG were manageable. I had no problems there.

    My fear is that I'll sign up for a third take and the same thing will happen– zero hours of sleep because of nerves, and lower test day performance. Unless there's something I can do about it, I'll take my 167 and run. I just wanted to know my odds at a t20 school, or a comparable t30 for the same career goal.

  • lexxx745lexxx745 Alum Member Sage ⭐
    3190 karma

    They do take the highest score. Do you not think you can improve a bit? You have the entire 2020 till you have to apply. Although if you really feel burned out/no point to continuing you can take your chances. Even one point on the LSAT would make a huge diff. With your GPA id try a third time! And I think you can do it especially if youve been at the high 160s low 170s

  • ExcludedMiddleExcludedMiddle Alum Member
    edited March 2020 737 karma

    I've had the exact same problem with sleeping before the LSAT, and I've really not found anything that works for it. I haven't sat for the LSAT since last July. I got a 165 and decided to probably just stick with that score, partially because I've dealt with the same issues you have, but although my cycle has gone well I do wonder how much another 2-5 points would've helped me, and whether I may miss out on going to a T14/T20 due to it. I seemed to be moving into a new score range right around last fall, but I also felt burnout coming on and worried not sleeping would keep me from really getting to that next level. I imagine we both have the sense that if we were able to take the LSAT on 7-8 hours' worth of sleep, we could do a lot better. I definitely left the test center in July knowing that I did well, but wondering nonetheless if some of the little mistakes and problems I had would've occurred had I slept well (e.g. didn't do a LG the way I should've, took longer to finish LR sections than I normally would've, etc., all of which might have been attributable to fatigue).

    That being said, even as it can be frustrating to not sleep before the LSAT, I think a lot of it may actually just be somewhat in our heads. My score on the July LSAT was not unpredictable; it was largely in line with my practice sections and PTs. I'm not sure that not getting any sleep before the LSAT plays as much of a role as we might think it does at first glance. That is one reason why I may retake again to try to get off of waitlists/improve my scholarships. While I do think sleeping well would help both of us, I'm also not sure I buy into the notion that it is necessarily as detrimental as we might initially feel inclined to think it is.

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