7Sage vs. Velocity

Comments

• Alex Short Alum Member

  November 2015 112 karma

  I used both - that is, I paid for both (and know of at least other person who used both) and we agreed that overall the course structure of 7sage is preferable to Velocity, especially with the aid of powerscore bibles and some other books.
  
  My experience was that Dave Hall's explanations of LR problems can easily be lost on someone without a strong foundation. His LG material worked well for me, but I took to LG without much issue so I'm not sure if that is attributable to him.
  
  One often overlooked thing to consider is that Velocity doesn't use just pre-PT36 material so if you use Cambridge packets it can be an issue if you expose yourself to too many later prep tests and rely on those later ones to be pristine.
  
  For me, velocity was very pricey compared to 7sage as well. My friend scored a 169 on his first test, and I'm PTing around there at the moment and hope to break into the 170s in two weeks. Good luck
• Nilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 edited November 2015 3438 karma

  Yep... Velocity is really good for LG... and Dave is a really nice person... helped me over the phone multiple times... but curriculum wise... and overall teaching package wise... this is the best course on the market. I would choose this over V.
• Accounts Playable Live Sage ⭐

  November 2015 edited November 2015 3107 karma

  I took both as well (Velocity over the summer of 2014; 7Sage over summer 2015). I'm not going to knock Velocity since it is good and it did help me in certain areas, but 7Sage is a much better option in my opinion (especially for the price).
  
  1.) The level of detail in the 7Sage lessons blows Velocity out of the water, so if your fundamentals aren't sound, then 7Sage is the easy choice. There were many important things that JY talked about in the lessons that didn't even show up in Velocity (such as the entire part about existential quantifiers).
  
  2.) Also, I do agree with what everyone already said about Velocity's LG strategy. Dave Hall likes to not worry about upfront inferences and rely on prior work to answer the questions. I certainly think the latter strategy is extremely useful, and it is the best thing I picked up from his course since it saves me a ton of time on brute force questions/eliminating wrong answers. However, not figuring out inferences up front (which is pretty much the opposite approach that JY has) isn't that helpful for people who are trying to learn LG. Picking up the inferences is the key to LG mastering/essential for good practice.
  
  3.) The focus on PTs is very different. If I remember correctly, Dave Hall believes that you don't really need to focus on taking very many timed exams (he thought about 10 was enough for the average test taker). I don't agree with this since getting the timing down on PTs and establishing endurance is essential to the LSAT. 10 PTs (unless your are already a master at the LSAT) probably doesn't get it done.
  
  4.) Even before 7Sage, I found the video explanations for a lot of Velocity LR questions lacking. For example, the average length of time for a Velocity explanation on a LR question might be around 1-2 minutes (sometimes 40 seconds!). I've never seen an explanation here under 2 minutes, and I'd say the average is around 4-5. Don't get me wrong, quality is more important than the time the videos are, but there were quite a few questions that I would flat out miss and not have a satisfying explanation. At 7Sage, every LR video is broken down into an analysis of the passage and all of the answer choices, which has been immensely helpful. On the same note, the 7Sage forums are much more developed, so if you have a question/still aren't satisfied with an explanation of a problem, someone here as more likely to answer it quickly.
  
  5.) I want to leave on a positive note since it sounds like I am knocking Velocity. I'm not. I actually think Velocity is worth it depending on where you are in your studies. If you are beginning and need to get the fundamentals down, then 7Sage is by far the route you should go. If you have studied for a year or more and you think you have the fundamentals and don't need an in-depth of ciriculum or want to pick up some LG shortcuts or tricks, then Velocity can be worth it. However, I think that latter group is a rare occurrence.
  
  
  EDIT: I should note that I am a about a year and a half removed from Velocity, so it is possible that a ton things have changed: such as the depth of the lessons or the forum participation. Take what I say with that in mind.
• Student... Member

  November 2015 edited November 2019 298 karma

  Thank you all for your time!!
  
  Compared to many of you, I've barely scratched the surface of my LSAT prep. I have only used TM so far (half of TM's full curriculum to be precise). I naively thought that I would nail the test after two months of prep while being a full-time student, since my first cold diagnostic score was 160. I figured that I was close to my goal. However, I took my second one last weekend and my score actually went down a few points!! I have to admit that I drastically overestimated my motivation to study for the test and my ability to master its content. I hope there is still enough time for me to adjust my strategy, and more importantly my attitude.
  
  @"Alex Short" Good luck!! Please share your experiences afterwards. I notice that you are using 7Sage's Starter program. I'm wondering if you find it adequate for you, since you are aiming for the 170s.
  
  @"Nilesh S" and @"Accounts Playable" please share your thoughts too, since you two are using the Ultimate+, which I'm interested in purchasing. But I'm planning to take the June 2016 test and that's actually the deadline I set for myself. I might even try to sit for the February test, if I could magically break into the 170s in the next two and a half months. In that case, I don't know if I should spend the extra money on the Ultimate+, since I will only use it for 6 months tops rather than its full duration - 18 months. I'm just trying to save some money here, but if the Ultimate+ will definitely supplement my prep better than any of the other three courses, I won't hesitate to spend the extra.
  
  Others are welcome to chime in on this too.
  Thanks!!
  
  [Admin note: Ultimate+ includes 12 months now]
• 1 Like

  Nilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 edited November 2015 3438 karma

  @lye1001 I just hang around the community now and then... I'm not using the ultimate + course any more as I'm already a 1L at Georgetown. However, I will say this. The ONLY resources I used for my test prep were 7sage and the LSAT trainer. I would definitely purchase the ultimate plus. You never know how long you need a package for... I used 7sage for over a year and a half (18 months) and whether you use it for 6 months or 18, its great to have that cushion with you... mind you this cushion is a lot cheaper and more useful than anything else in the market right now and the material is more - best to have everything you need at one go imo. Overall, every 7sage package is top quality instruction for a great price. The ultimate(+) decision of what you want to spend, however, is yours.
• Seriousbird Alum Member

  November 2015 1278 karma

  Hi. I was debating on the two before deciding to go with 7Sage. I looked at the forums on TLS to see what people said and the reviews of both. Of course the reviewers gave rave reviews confusing me all the more. Then, I looked at the online explanations for Dave Hall's LR and was not satisfied with the answer choice breakdown. Doing the free course of 7Sage sold me on the course. And finally, I know stupid but I showed both online courses to my mom (who is an English Literature professor) and asked for her insight, after briefly scouring through both sites, she said I would go with 7Sage. So, that's what I did. I also would recommend taking the time to learn the curriculum and then take practice tests. I was initially aiming for December and tried to rush through the curriculum, but after going through 1/4 through the curriculum and going from mid-high 160s to low 160s, high 150s I realized I was nowhere near ready for the test. So I am redoing the curriculum SLOWLY and when I complete that with drilling and Trainer, I will start taking tests.
  
  Hope that helps! Good luck with whatever you decide..
• 1 Like

  Nilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 edited November 2015 3438 karma

  Also... don't proceed with a preconceived notion of how much time you will need to prep for this test maybe you give it in June... but maybe it takes you till December to master the concepts... what you need is to feel that for yourself when you are in the process.
• 1 Like

  NYC12345 Alum Inactive Sage

  November 2015 1654 karma

  @"Nilesh S" said:
  I would choose this over V.
  

  .....any day of the week
• Accounts Playable Live Sage ⭐

  November 2015 3107 karma

  @lye1001 If you have just scratched the surface like you say, then 7Sage is easy choice in my mind. The Ultimate+ is the best deal value wise on the market.
• Student... Member

  November 2015 298 karma

  Thank you all!! I'm in:) Will start the 7sage curriculum once my TM account expires in two weeks. Cant wait!
• 3 Likes

  Castruccio Member

  November 2015 edited November 2015 29 karma

  I actually recommend starting the 7sage curriculum now rather than waiting for two more weeks. I too originally started out with the TM online course, but was very disappointed with the sparseness of explanations, especially in logical reasoning. I was frustrated that TM did not provide much in terms of explanations for over 2/3 of their practice questions. After a day of soul searching, and realizing that I should not delay my learning for financial reasons (I still had 2 months left on my TM contract), I immediately started the 7sage course.
  
  Best decision ever.
  
  I decided to check my ego at the door and started the 7sage course from square one. I am now at the point in the curriculum where I am going over strengthen/weaken, and am kicking ass (-0 or -1 on all the problem sets). No joke, JY's Dragonball reference on how to approach strengthen/weaken questions clicked for me in a way that TM never did. The biggest difference between the TM online course and 7sage, is that the former merely videotapes Robin giving lectures to a classroom full of students, while in the latter, I get the impression that JY is personally tutoring me. Lastly, the vast majority of videos clocks in at under 10 minutes each. The fact that I can watch JY make notations and hear him explain every answer choice, has been a godsend for someone who works full-time, 6-days a week.
  
• Student... Member

  November 2015 298 karma

  @Castruccio Thank you so much for sharing! I was wondering if anyone else who went through the same thing before could give me some advice! Can you tell me if the books provided by TM are helpful to you now? I'm almost done with Volume Two. I know the last two books are all supplement questions. I'm thinking if I should at least go over Volume Three and watch all the videos provided. I feel bad if I wasted all the money without learning much from it:'( I think I might be able to find a way to combine all the real test questions in TM books with JY's videos. Any suggestions?
  Thanks!
• Quick Silver Alum Inactive Sage

  November 2015 1049 karma

  I considered Velocity but can't speak too much about it without having taken the course. I took testmasters and wasn't crazy about. But 7sage is amazing for LG and LR. You may want to supplement the LSAT Trainer book for RC.
• lsatblitz Alum Member

  November 2015 521 karma

  I also took TM and never finished because it was so rushed. I signed up for 7Sage soon after, and that was absolutely the best decision I made in my LSAT journey.
  
  I didn't realize how much work my fundamentals needed until I went through the curriculum. Plus, the price for the starter course is a killer deal for what you get.
  
  Robin is obviously incredible at the LSAT, but I don't think his teaching methods are useful for every student out there. I hated the TM approach to games especially. JY's outlook on games makes everything so simple, while TM was overly complicated.
• 1 Like

  nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 7965 karma

  @lsatblitz said:
  Robin is obviously incredible at the LSAT, but I don't think his teaching methods are useful for every student out there.
  

  Bingo! Top scorer does not necessarily translate to the best teacher. You really want someone who struggled with this test and had to fight for it. Not someone who showed up and got a bunch of 180's.
• inactive Alum Member

  November 2015 12637 karma

  @Galapagos.1001 said:
  I had to spend another $700 on an extension
  

  ?????????? What is this ridiculous price?! Not trying to knock TM but holy cow, $700 for 2 months?!
  
• nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 7965 karma

  @"Dillon A. Wright" said:
  Not trying to knock TM but holy cow, $700 for 2 months?!
  

  It's amazing how often folks see a higher price and think it indicates ANYTHING about quality. What a marketing trick!
• 1 Like

  Student... Member

  November 2015 298 karma

  @"Dillon A. Wright" It's kinda my own fault too. I never asked about the extension price before I started the course. It's almost as expensive as TM's Full Online Course, which is $900+.
  @nicole.hopkins I know, haha. But I actually went to a law school info session and a few current law students at my school recommended us TM. That's why I didn't even do any research on other prep courses and just went with it.
• nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 7965 karma

  @Galapagos.1001 said:
  That's why I didn't even do any research on other prep courses and just went with it.
  

  That's the power of word of mouth. Scary, ain't it?
• DumbHollywoodActor Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 edited November 2015 7468 karma

  @Galapagos.1001 said:
  But I actually went to a law school info session and a few current law students at my school recommended us TM. That's why I didn't even do any research on other prep courses and just went with it.
  

  That’s a classic reasoning flaw of appealing to an authority outside of their expertise, a flaw that you’ll learn with your 7Sage curriculum. Welcome!
• Pacifico Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 8021 karma

  Not necessarily... they could have been TM tutors and therefore it would be very much in their area of expertise.
• 1 Like

  Pacifico Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 8021 karma

  They can teach you all about Type 1 questions and Type 2 questions... and 3, 4, 5, and beyond! #TMnonsense
• Student... Member

  November 2015 298 karma

  @DumbHollywoodActor Thanks!