Feeling hopeless about logic games

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• 4 Likes

  jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2014 2654 karma

  quick question... you said you just started the LG section of the course... would the same be said about LG in general? is this your first real go at hitting LG? if yes no worries... yes the games get harder but you'll learn and adapt to solving them quickly... there may be one small thing you realize and boom you'll jump... it is said (by many) LG is the easiest section(read: most learnable) so don't get all down bc things aren't clicking just yet, keep working at it, watch the videos, and practice and you'll see some nice improvement quick
• 4 Likes

  LSATisland Free Trial Inactive Sage

  November 2014 1878 karma

  Ya, I would point to those two parts of the question as well:
  
  " I just started the logic games portion of the course..."
  
  "...I dramatically increased my understanding on logical reasoning and reading comprehension using 7sage..."
  
  LG are the easiest section to improve in. If you drastically improved in RC - the hardest to improve in - I'd give your LG prep some time and see if things start to 'click'.
• 3 Likes

  Drackedary Member

  November 2014 edited November 2014 239 karma

  LSATisland and jayswims beat me to it. You only started the LG section. Trust me - this stuff is really foreign to a lot of people. It will take time. The Fool-Proof Guide works wonders. And do put in the time to learn and practice, because if you can't do LG, then you won't hit 160.
• 3 Likes

  Patrick :D Alum Member

  November 2014 16 karma

  LG was once my most difficult section, and now I love the challenge every PT I take. There's nothing more rewarding than -0 LG. Even if it seems time consuming and monotonous, FOOL PROOF, FOOL PROOF, FOOL PROOF. Not just until you understand it, but until you can do it quicker than J.Y. recommends; that way, when you hit a really tough game, you'll have the confidence due to the extra time you've earned yourself!
• 2 Likes

  mjjohns6 Member

  November 2014 418 karma

  I spent weeks on nothing but LG I did every LG on old PT for practice! It really helped!
• 2 Likes

  Derek Kunhee Kim Member

  November 2014 131 karma

  I used to just do logic games one at a time, and found that my improvements were sparse. But J.Y. makes a great point that LG are the most predictable and repetitive part of the LSAT. I've found that doing the same set over and over again has really helped.
• 3 Likes

  vincent_cordone Free Trial Member

  December 2014 9 karma

  I have a few tips that so far have been helping me overall.
  
  First let me explain my biggest problem, it's not sketching the rules by themselves, rather making the inferrences and linking them.
  
  Originally I had the hardest time just sketching out the rules let alone making inferences, but not that I've been doing them....ALOT.....I MEAN ALOT, i'm starting to see things that I've not seen before.
  
  Here's what I did:
  
  1 totally disregarded the timing aspect, (at this point it just depressed me and totally bugged my brain down). Yeah I know you will have to do it, but if you can't do it under relaxed conditions then how can you expect yourself to do anything under stressful one's?
  
  2 I focused ONLY on the game, the sketch, and the rules. I totally ditched the questions because the thing that I've noticed is that when I look at a video that JY made and it gives me the sketch and the rules i can answer a question with 90% + accuracy in less than a minute a piece, so for me the biggest time eater was the sketch and understanding how the rules worked for/against the other rules.
  
  If you focus on the rules and try to imagine the sketch, then the answers will be there, so don't worry about that part, and most importantly don't let it get to you. I was able to find a few youtube video's that talk about "how to study effectively" that were posted by college professors and they relate to things such as the LSAT and some of the most important things I've picked up are listed above.
  
  Lastly I would suggest index cards for the LG and how to write them out. Those helped me ALOT
  
  AND
  
  making multiple copies of the PT's that you have, preferably three or more. Why? Because:
  
  Copy 1 will be the original
  Copy 2 you can write on in a timed environment
  Copy 3 you can write on in a non timed environment
  
  This will give you an idea as to whether or not the clock is the thing that's paralyzing you and not the question persay.
  
  
• 1 Like

  carles1993 Free Trial Member

  December 2014 2 karma

  I think it is the best way to cope with LG is to watch videos about full explanations with logic games. this will help you to learn new approaches
• 6 Likes

  alexroark5 Alum Member Inactive ⭐

  December 2014 edited December 2014 812 karma

  Hey Dee don't fret! Logic Games used to scare the sh*t out of me. I too got to a point where I was worried that perhaps I just didn't have the cognitive horsepower to be good at them. That's a bad feeling because that is something that is mostly out of your control. The reality is however, that your success on logic games depends much more on your work ethic than on your intellect.
  
  My first suggestion would be to go through the introduction to the basic LG game types (Sequencing, Sequencing with a Twist, Grouping, In/Out, Grouping with a Chart, etc.) in JY's 7 sage course.
  
  My next suggestion would be to do every game from PT 35 and below at a minimum of 4 times. Let's assume on average it will take about 9 minutes per game. Doing each game in any PT 4 times will then take you about 2.5 hours. If you do that for 35 PTs that will take you to almost 90 hours of work. Make sure you are playing around with the games, exploring different ways of doing them, doing them with a rules driven approach, and then redoing them where you try to split them into different templates, or trying to solve for all possibilities (these will become more clear once you've been through JY's basic course). Don't just find the right answer on these games, try to force the wrong answer to be right and see why the rule ultimately won't allow for it, that's when you really start to see how these games work.
  
  You'll start to see the same types of inferences recur over and over again within the different game types. Sequencing games often have inferences that deal with block items or leaders/followers, etc. In/out games have a recurring inference where when the out group is filled, everyone who is left must be assigned to the in group, etc. So just be on the look out for inferences that recur frequently. With time, you will get faster, and you'll get better at making inferences in games you've never seen before.
  
  Just a couple of things that really put me over the hump on games that I learned from JY that may make more sense to you down the road:
  
  1. know when rules trigger vs when they don't (saves so much time)
  2. systematically apply your rules (helps tremendously to avoid paralysis)
  
  Last thing, spend time practicing games EVERY day. Every night I spend about two hours just doing games again that I've done in the past. You'll be surprised how ridiculously fast you can get at them. Games used to be my least favorite part of this thing. Now, the two hours I spend every night is almost like a fun study break from all the LR and RC practice.
• 2 Likes

  lsatcommitted Alum Member

  December 2014 166 karma

  I have to say, i really felt hopeless with LG as well. But, everytime i did a game, and had any doubt, i printed 10 or even 20... and just watch the video and did it again... and again and over and over...
  I am at the point now where sequencing games dont represent much of a challenge... I still struggle with grouping games.. but i dont struggle with game board set up and rule representation...
  just gotta keep plugging away...
• 1 Like

  lbalestrieri Alum Member

  December 2014 110 karma

  I know how you feel! I was awful at logic games and they still are my weakest section. I did the LSAT Trainer before coming to 7sage and I still couldn't even complete half of the questions before time ran out. My worst score was a 29% on them. After taking the course I'm averaging 60-70%, which I know still isn't great. However, it's much better from where i started. You can still score above a 160 and not do that great on that section. I recently scored a 162 on a preptest while only getting a 65% on the logic games section. Remember that LR is 50% of the test! You'll have to put in the work, but its possible. Don't get discouraged!
• 3 Likes

  bianca.chamusco Alum Member

  December 2014 7 karma

  I used to miss more than half of all LG questions on preptests. I often wouldn't even get past the second game! What really helped me was drilling games (the Fool Proof method) with Cambridge LSAT games (PT #1-35) grouped by type. I started with simple sequencing and did all the games, in order of difficulty, again and again and one after the other until I could do them all in under 10 minutes. Then I moved on to the other types after I mastered one set. It does get boring and monotonous, but you'll quickly see how all the games are the same. There just aren't that many possible rules or combinations of rules; LSAC tries to disguise this fact by dressing them up and using complicated language, but you've got to look past all that. Once I figured this out, I got a lot faster.
  
  In the last month or so I've seen my preptest scores jump from the low 160s to the low 170s based almost entirely on my improvements in LG. Games mastery is definitely possible! I used to think that my brain just wouldn't work in the way that the LSAT requires and that maybe I was intellectually unfit for the practice of law, but the truth is that games ARE immensely learnable, and if you put in the work, you WILL improve. Now I'm just hoping I can replicate my recent success on the Dec test, just two days away.
• 1 Like

  helloitsdiana Alum Member

  December 2014 67 karma

  Thank you all so much for your tips and your suggestions! It really makes me feel better knowing that I am not the only one that is struggling with this. Furthermore I feel glad to be a part of such a supportive community. Just an update, I have taken many of your suggestions about the foolproof method, timing, understanding the rules, focusing on the lessons and just hammering them out. Although I still struggle with the mapping out all the possiblities approach, I do see myself getting better. Before I would just stare at a problem and just not even know where to go after I got my game board set up (since I wasn't making enough inferences). Now I know that some games are more rule driven than others and I can't panic and stall like I was doing before. And after doing so many they really do start feeling the same although I definitely prefer some games over others. (Spatial sequencing games I still loath with a passion!)
  Also, I really get excited when I can finish a problem in time and get all if not at least half correct. Baby steps is the way to go. Again thanks for your encouragement. If anyone else is struggling please read the suggestions above, you guys are awesome!