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Should I postpone? Advice please.
Hi all. I'm registered for the December test -- but don't feel like I've maximized my potential. I am getting in the 171 - 175 range, but consistently get at least 2-3 (sometimes much more) wrong in LG. I have done weeks/months of foolproofing and have seen significant improvement, but still not where I can get to a -0. I am thinking about postponing to feb, but that obviously means I will have to postpone a cycle. The reason why I am thinking about postponing is because I really want Y (academia), and they seem to care about how many takes you have. I'm aiming for a 175 +. Plan on spending the last two months (if I postpone) finishing up PTs (I've only taken around 15-20) and then drilling LG.
Two questions:
1. Should I postpone if I am gunning hard for Yale? I have a 4.1 GPA and was thinking a 174-175 score would really give me a good shot.
2. Have any of you heard of someone taking an extra year and regretting it? I am 1.5 years out and itching to go to law school. I feel it could be helpful to stay one more year... but I don't want to keep wasting my time.
Thanks for all the help!!!
Comments
I would take the exam, and risk the possibility of retaking. Unless you're a LSAT expert, I think luck plays a factor in your score. The more exams you take, the more opportunities you have to get your best potential score. Maybe December will have super easy games, and February will have extremely challenging games.
If you're "gunning hard" for Y, it might be best to sit out a cycle and to get that 175+ you are clearly capable of. With your GPA you have a really great shot!
Thanks guys, appreciate the advice from you both. I really am 50/50 still (especially since I have one person telling me to take and the other telling me not to take). Anyone else have any advice? Thanks so much again.
I'd normally be really inclined to tell you to take the test based on where you're scoring (since, once you hit the low-mid 170s, I think there's a bit of luck to be taken into account for score variability, particularly in the RC section). But if you're scoring a 175 on a test where you got 3 or more wrong on LG, that could easily have been a 178 or something, which is incredible.
If you were getting these scores with perfect/near perfect LG, I'd say take. No question. But the fact you haven't mastered the one completely masterable section gives some credence for an argument to postpone (I'm not saying that you should, but I'm saying that's where the main argument is for you to do so. And I think it's partially justified).
Thanks man -- that I think is what is really pushing me to postpone. Just to give everyone a read of how much I'm losing to LG -- my last couple of prep tests in the 70s.
72 - 172 (-2 on LG, so 174)
74 - 171 (-5 on LG, so 176)
76 - 174 (-2 on LG, so 176)
73 - 175 (-3 on LG, so 178)
78 - 175 (-2 on LG, so 177)
79 - 173 (-4 on LG, so 177) -- To be fair, this was viruses.
On almost all of these tests, I would be over the 175 hump with -0s on LG. Anyone else think this is really good evidence to postpone?
FYI
I think 4/6 of those tests have "Medium" difficulty for LG. PT 81+82 both had "Easiest" ranking.
I'm just going to interject here to say that, even with some LG problems, a 173 or so shouldn't inhibit you from being able to get into Yale given your GPA.
But that's if you get a 173. You have to deal with official testing conditions--and the nerves that come along with them--as well as the unpredictability of the difficulty of the different sections of the test. So what @10000019 said is on point. What if the December administration has a games section that's super easy, but the Feb administration has an odd game thrown into the mix?--You just don't know.
True, theoretically you will be much better at games with a couple of extra months of practice. That should be weighed against the year's time that you'll lose if you don't take it. Given the (a) marginal effect that a 173 vs 175+ will have on your application and (b) the marginal effect that one retake will have on your consideration (especially if your first take was @173), I'd say still shoot for December. Especially, if you value your time and the whole year you could "save" if you take and get the score you like (note that this is different from saying that taking a year off would lead to regret; I don't think that)
I'd also question an underlying assumption about Academia and YLS that you might have, but this doesn't seem like the right space to do it.
Either way, good luck!--A.c.S
Im gonna second what @acsimon said above, you need to factor in the possibility that feb test will have a curveball miscellaneous game and if it doesn't go as planned, waiting between tests can lead to your LG skills atrophying. I would advise you to take the december test . Good luck with your decisions!
Just to add a bit to the discussion above... The difference between a 173 vs a 175, for purposes of admission into schools like Y, is not marginal. 175 puts you squarely at their 75%-tile, whereas 173 puts you at their median. Definitely take that into consideration since Y seems to be your top choice.
Thanks everyone. I am leaning towards postponing. I think Alex might be right in that the difference between 173 to 175 is not marginal for Y (or S). It is definitely a huge factor in my decision that the two points I am missing is a section where people consistently go -0 with practice. I understand that its up to chance, but wouldn't the same be true for Dec? Thanks for all of ya'lls thoughts.
I should clarify @"Alex Divine" . By "marginal", I meant marginal given the UGPA stats, and, presumably, the other items @aurelian 's application, it might approach negligible.
Of course, if @aurelian's states were mediansm, it would be different.
But remember:
(1) You don't know that I won't get a 175 (or higher) on this test. You also don't know that you will.
(2) Mutatis mutandis for Feb. There is just no guarantee about the test (although, it might be true that you'd be more comfortable)
(3) How much do you really think that your application will be effected if you have a 173 on your record? (Hopefully, for YLS, you have some information that is more substantive than what floats around here and there on TLS and reddit.)
(4) Test day can go far differently than avg PTs. True, they do give you a fairly reliable barometer and also have a positive psychological effect on your nerves going into test day, but nothing is certain. Some do better than their average; many do (a bit) worse. This applies to all your tests.
Of course, like we've all acknowledged, it's up to chance on several fronts, but I do know that what's not up to chance is the fact that you'll have to wait for a while if you forego your cycle. There's nothing against that, since I think it's a good thing for most people. But, given your circumstances, I honestly don't see the problem with rolling the dice here. Especially, because they seem loaded in your favor on this one. But good luck.--A.c.S
To me, this is the crux of the issue. Given the uncertainty of test-to-test difficulty, and the cost of postponing a cycle, it's important to know how much extra a 175 would benefit you vs. 173.
My first (hopeful) thought was something like Simon's - both scores are 99th percentile so you'd hope law schools care about other factors in your application once you're scoring at this level (especially given their instance that the process is holistic).
But I had a quick look on Law Schools Numbers, and it does seem like it makes a difference for Yale. Of course, all the usual caveats apply when talking about Law School Numbers, but it's suggestive at least.
Haha, you guys are the best. Thank you for nuancing the issue, makes me really look at the issue from all sides.
As of now, I'll be postponing because I think Alex + others have a point -- a 175 would make a huge difference for Yale (and even for $$$ at T14) and S, which are my top two choices. With a waiver, I can still apply to S this cycle, and Yale seems to not care whether you take it in Dec or Feb (I can still apply this cycle). I'm sure this decision will change a millino times before Saturday lol. Any other thoughts?
I think you are your own best judge. Go with your gut.
Show up to the exam. After the exam, you can decide whether you want to cancel. Don't cancel in the testing room. Take time to think about how you performed, and then make a decision before the cancel deadline.
If you get 2/3 wrong in LG because you run out of time, then you should clearly know how you did in that section. If you get 2/3 wrong because of careless mistakes, then take your time during the LG section and see whether or not you can complete all the games. If you don't, then you can consider canceling your score.
I say take it. You are regularly scoring close to what you want. You very likely could walk out of there with a 175. If you end up with a 172 or 173, maybe you'll decide you want to postpone a cycle or re-take in February. Even if you did, I don't think it would set you back that much if you take it again and get a 178 after nailing games. But if you were to kill it now, you'd have it out of the way. I feel like if your goal score is reasonable and possible to get from where you are PTing, you should dive in. Sometimes the difficulty of different sections will swing your way. You're not at risk for having some super low score that will be tough to bounce back from. There are more pros than cons.
Well, to give you my honest answer, I think you should take it. A 173 is clearly at the bottom of your range here... It's not like it's your average score and you are banking on having a better than usual day. To be able to do that well consistently on RC and LR is very impressive. I would be worried about having enough fresh material to keep my brain sharp for those sections!
To give you my greedy answer, don't take it! I'm taking in Dec. and I need everyone who is currently averaging 170+ to hold off til Feb.