In this example, can we say the word "which" is acting both as a referential and modifier?
Azedcorp,which currently owns a majority stake, has steadfastly refused to sell.
Because it does refer to the noun Azedcorp, but it also gives extra information about it.
But maybe I'm wrong because Azedcorp is a proper noun and is specific. It is not a general term. It is not like we can ask which Azedcorp? I'm confused.
“Which can be used as a referential word in various contexts. It can refer either to a noun with all of its modifications, or it can refer to an entire clause that is subject and predicate.
Referring to a noun: “Azedcorp, which owns a majority stake, has steadfastly refused to sell.
The word “WHICH” in this sentence refers to a Azedcorp. → You can swap out the referential “which” for its referent.
In doing so, you expand this sentence into two sentences. #1: Azedcorp currently owns a majority stake. #2: Azedcorp has steadfastly refused to sell. The second usage is where “which” refers to an entire clause which you typically find at the end of the sentence.
Referring to a clause (subject and predicate:) “A pet makes one’s time at a retirement home more rewarding, which can be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases.”
What is the subject? The pet is the subject.
What is the predicate? Makes one’s time at a retirement home more rewarding.
The second clause begins after the comma with the word “which.”
We could split this sentence into two sentences by adding a period and swapping out the word “which” for “that”. #1 Sentence: A pet makes one’s time at the retirement home more rewarding. #2 Sentence: (Swap “which” for “that”) That will be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases.
Recap: “Which” is often used as a referential. It can refer to a noun or an entire clause.
@jjmaiteh Because in this case, alcohol does not on its own pose a threat to the entire team's safety, its what alcohol does (seriously impairs an operator's judgement) that poses a threat to the entire team's safety.
This is a sloppy taxonomy if the purpose is a functional classification of grammar. Earlier, Ping distinguishes between the restrictive relative pronoun "that", calling it a modifier, as it "cuts down into the subset", and the demonstrative sentential referential "that". That distinction is useful and follows the function of those separate uses of "that". But here, he seems to think the noun modifying "which" of "Azedcorp, which currently owns a majority stake" is performing a pointing function instead of a modifying function. Certainly, both the restrictive clause "that" and nonrestrictive clause "which" do reference something, but they do it to MODIFY (in this case) the subject. If he wants to identify the functional difference for "that", he should also identify the functional difference for "which". When "which" functions as a strict pointing referential and does not modify the referent, THEN it should be categorized as a referential in this taxonomy. When it DOES modify the referent, it should be categorized as a modifier.
@dh2303 I was confused by the first example. The term "which" in relation to Azedcorp sounded like a modifier of Azedcorp because it added on detail. However, it also could be a referential referring back to Azedcorp. Is it possible for a term, for example in this case, to be both a modifier and a referential?
@allisonleverock Yes :) In fact, a modifier can't do its job without also pointing at the thing it is modifying. I was simply complaining about the way this curriculum attempts to distinguish referencing vs modifying.
#feedback. at 23 seconds, captions read "as a corp, which currently owns a majority stake, has steadfastly refused to sell." It should read "Azedcorp, which currently owns a majority stake, has steadfastly refused to sell."
What part of the LSAT is this information going to be applied? Are these lessons about subject, predicate, and referential important for the reading comprehension section? Or is this important for logical reasoning?
@DominicCruse Both! RC it will help to parse out what's being said as they love to throw a lot of modifiers. For the LR it's also helpful to break the stim apart to better understand what's being said and what gaps being left out. I was able to answer a sufficient assumption question quicker by using this method to configure what the stim was stating and assuming.
When referring to a noun, will the "which" always follow the noun it refers to? Or is it not about proximity in a similar way to the subject and predicate lesson?
In the second usage of "which" (referring to a clause (subject and predicate)), why is the word "which" swapped out with the word "that"? I know the explanation mentions "we can swap "which" out with "that" and expand the sentence in two for clarity.", but is this just for clarity purposes? Why not use "this" instead of "that"? Am I thinking too much into it? Is it only to show that we can expand the sentences in two, or is it a specific rule?
@sb.blais the point of changing which to that was simply to show that from the original sentence which is used to put together two standalone sentences. You are right you could’ve used “this” instead no specific rule
not a question regarding WHICH but, in the sentence : alcohol seriously impairs an operator’s judgment , int the subject : ALCOHOL and predicate : IMPAIRS, rather than predicate being the whole sentence?
Regarding the "alcohol seriously impairs an operator's judgment" example, is it right to say that the referential 'that' is referring to the whole clause: "alcohol seriously impairs an operator's judgment"? It seems to me that this is a claim about the capacity of alcohol to impair judgment, which is not in and of itself that which poses a threat to the team's safety. Rather, the serious impairment of the operator's judgment in itself poses the threat. I appreciate any clarification.
I'm a bit confused by Example 2, where which is said to refer to a subject and predicate. Most of the time, when encountered with a pronoun (or a referential as they're described here), it can be replaced with its referent the and the clause will make sense. I can't replace 'which' with "A pet makes one's time at a retirement home more rewarding," though. "A pet makes one's time at a retirement home more rewarding will be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases" doesn't make any sense. It seems to me that 'which ' is referring something implied by the first sentence, like " a rewarding time at a retirement home". I would appreciate other's input.
it works but you have to rewrite the sentence a little bit.
a pet makes one's time at a retirement home more rewarding, which will be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases.
if you remove "which" from that sentence, you can rewrite it with the first clause as: "a pet makes one's time at a retirement home more rewarding. a pet making one's time at a retirement home more rewarding will be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases."
you see, that sentence is more clunky and doesn't flow nicely which is why "which" works so well in that sentence.
When "which" is referring to a noun, it will almost be at the beginning of an embedded clause. An embedded clause is a subordinate clause (subordinate to the main clause) that adds more information/detail to the main clause, usually indicated by commas. An embedded clause is dependent on on the main clause, meaning that by itself, it could not stand as a sentence.
For example:
The LSAT, (insert an embedded clause here, whatever you want to say about the LSAT!), is used to predict the success of law students.
Let's try out a couple:
The LSAT, which has 3 sections, is used to predict law students success.
The LSAT, which some people like and some people dislike, is to used predict the success of law students.
The LSAT, which is administered by the LSAC, is used to predict the success of law students.
Now imagine the amount of times we can input embedded clauses to make a sentence complex, especially by using referential phrases.
The LSAT, which is a online test that requires a stable internet connection and quiet space, is used to predict, which has been a controversial, law student, when they are applying, success.
A couple words on "which" referring to a clause (subject and predicate).
In this sense, I almost see "which" used as a causal indicator.
For example:
Preston has become a lawyer, which has helped the family tremendously.
Preston becoming a lawyer ---caused--> help for the family.
OR
The people of Narnia went to war, which saved the land.
People of Narnia going to war ---cause--> saving the land.
OR
The glamorous lifestyle of the wealthy is overblown, which is unfortunate.
The overblowing of the glamorous lifestyle of the wealthy ---caused--> a unfortunate situation.
Look, this is not as clear cut as causal relationships we have to examine on the LSAT. However, just knowing what a referential phrase is, how to spot it, and even the ability to break it down grammatically is not enough to do well on the LSAT. We have to understand the relationships that grammar conveys, specifically referential phrases. I use the term relationship in a very broad sense. Relationships is the LSAT, the LSAT is relationships.
Are you a student or a tutor? how are supposed to know when there is or isn't more valuable lessons in the comments....this beta version is starting to worry me a bit with the inconsistency.
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33 comments
In this example, can we say the word "which" is acting both as a referential and modifier?
Azedcorp, which currently owns a majority stake, has steadfastly refused to sell.
Because it does refer to the noun Azedcorp, but it also gives extra information about it.
But maybe I'm wrong because Azedcorp is a proper noun and is specific. It is not a general term. It is not like we can ask which Azedcorp? I'm confused.
Doing this from my phone while waiting for puppy to be groomed, is just superlative efficiency.
To make sure I got this understood: When you see "Which" break off what's before and after to make two translations...?
“Which can be used as a referential word in various contexts. It can refer either to a noun with all of its modifications, or it can refer to an entire clause that is subject and predicate.
Referring to a noun: “Azedcorp, which owns a majority stake, has steadfastly refused to sell.
The word “WHICH” in this sentence refers to a Azedcorp. → You can swap out the referential “which” for its referent.
In doing so, you expand this sentence into two sentences. #1: Azedcorp currently owns a majority stake. #2: Azedcorp has steadfastly refused to sell. The second usage is where “which” refers to an entire clause which you typically find at the end of the sentence.
Referring to a clause (subject and predicate:) “A pet makes one’s time at a retirement home more rewarding, which can be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases.”
What is the subject? The pet is the subject.
What is the predicate? Makes one’s time at a retirement home more rewarding.
The second clause begins after the comma with the word “which.”
We could split this sentence into two sentences by adding a period and swapping out the word “which” for “that”. #1 Sentence: A pet makes one’s time at the retirement home more rewarding. #2 Sentence: (Swap “which” for “that”) That will be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases.
Recap: “Which” is often used as a referential. It can refer to a noun or an entire clause.
Alcohol seriously impairs an operator's judgment, which in turn poses a threat to the entire team's safety.
Why does "which" not refer to the noun "alcohol", why does it refer to the whole sentence "Alcohol seriously impairs an operator's judgment"?
@jjmaiteh Because in this case, alcohol does not on its own pose a threat to the entire team's safety, its what alcohol does (seriously impairs an operator's judgement) that poses a threat to the entire team's safety.
This is a sloppy taxonomy if the purpose is a functional classification of grammar. Earlier, Ping distinguishes between the restrictive relative pronoun "that", calling it a modifier, as it "cuts down into the subset", and the demonstrative sentential referential "that". That distinction is useful and follows the function of those separate uses of "that". But here, he seems to think the noun modifying "which" of "Azedcorp, which currently owns a majority stake" is performing a pointing function instead of a modifying function. Certainly, both the restrictive clause "that" and nonrestrictive clause "which" do reference something, but they do it to MODIFY (in this case) the subject. If he wants to identify the functional difference for "that", he should also identify the functional difference for "which". When "which" functions as a strict pointing referential and does not modify the referent, THEN it should be categorized as a referential in this taxonomy. When it DOES modify the referent, it should be categorized as a modifier.
@dh2303 I was confused by the first example. The term "which" in relation to Azedcorp sounded like a modifier of Azedcorp because it added on detail. However, it also could be a referential referring back to Azedcorp. Is it possible for a term, for example in this case, to be both a modifier and a referential?
@allisonleverock Yes :) In fact, a modifier can't do its job without also pointing at the thing it is modifying. I was simply complaining about the way this curriculum attempts to distinguish referencing vs modifying.
"Which" can be used to refer to nouns or entire referential phrases (which include the subject and predicate).
#feedback. at 23 seconds, captions read "as a corp, which currently owns a majority stake, has steadfastly refused to sell." It should read "Azedcorp, which currently owns a majority stake, has steadfastly refused to sell."
What part of the LSAT is this information going to be applied? Are these lessons about subject, predicate, and referential important for the reading comprehension section? Or is this important for logical reasoning?
@DominicCruse Both! RC it will help to parse out what's being said as they love to throw a lot of modifiers. For the LR it's also helpful to break the stim apart to better understand what's being said and what gaps being left out. I was able to answer a sufficient assumption question quicker by using this method to configure what the stim was stating and assuming.
When referring to a noun, will the "which" always follow the noun it refers to? Or is it not about proximity in a similar way to the subject and predicate lesson?
It all makes sense, there's just a lot of specifics to remember lol
"which"is often used as a referential. It can refer to a sound or an entire clause.
In the second usage of "which" (referring to a clause (subject and predicate)), why is the word "which" swapped out with the word "that"? I know the explanation mentions "we can swap "which" out with "that" and expand the sentence in two for clarity.", but is this just for clarity purposes? Why not use "this" instead of "that"? Am I thinking too much into it? Is it only to show that we can expand the sentences in two, or is it a specific rule?
Thanks!
@sb.blais I'm wondering the same thing
@sb.blais the point of changing which to that was simply to show that from the original sentence which is used to put together two standalone sentences. You are right you could’ve used “this” instead no specific rule
@sb.blais I'm wondering this too
How do you know when there are 2 clauses in a sentence? What are the signs?
Lawd its starting to sound like a foreign language. I do understand, need practice tho.
This is a little confusing, but I’m also studying at a really late hour.
lol
not a question regarding WHICH but, in the sentence : alcohol seriously impairs an operator’s judgment , int the subject : ALCOHOL and predicate : IMPAIRS, rather than predicate being the whole sentence?
Modifiers of the subject noun and predicate are part of a clause (Subject+Predicate)
Kernel: Alcohol impairs an operator
Subject noun: Alcohol
Predicate verb: impairs
Modify 'impairs': seriously
Predicate object: an operator
Modify 'operator': judgement
@xenonay Pretty sure "operator" modifies "judgement."
Regarding the "alcohol seriously impairs an operator's judgment" example, is it right to say that the referential 'that' is referring to the whole clause: "alcohol seriously impairs an operator's judgment"? It seems to me that this is a claim about the capacity of alcohol to impair judgment, which is not in and of itself that which poses a threat to the team's safety. Rather, the serious impairment of the operator's judgment in itself poses the threat. I appreciate any clarification.
I'm a bit confused by Example 2, where which is said to refer to a subject and predicate. Most of the time, when encountered with a pronoun (or a referential as they're described here), it can be replaced with its referent the and the clause will make sense. I can't replace 'which' with "A pet makes one's time at a retirement home more rewarding," though. "A pet makes one's time at a retirement home more rewarding will be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases" doesn't make any sense. It seems to me that 'which ' is referring something implied by the first sentence, like " a rewarding time at a retirement home". I would appreciate other's input.
it works but you have to rewrite the sentence a little bit.
a pet makes one's time at a retirement home more rewarding, which will be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases.
if you remove "which" from that sentence, you can rewrite it with the first clause as: "a pet makes one's time at a retirement home more rewarding. a pet making one's time at a retirement home more rewarding will be important to more people as the average life span of our population increases."
you see, that sentence is more clunky and doesn't flow nicely which is why "which" works so well in that sentence.
hope that helps!
A couple words on "which" referring to a noun.
When "which" is referring to a noun, it will almost be at the beginning of an embedded clause. An embedded clause is a subordinate clause (subordinate to the main clause) that adds more information/detail to the main clause, usually indicated by commas. An embedded clause is dependent on on the main clause, meaning that by itself, it could not stand as a sentence.
For example:
The LSAT, (insert an embedded clause here, whatever you want to say about the LSAT!), is used to predict the success of law students.
Let's try out a couple:
The LSAT, which has 3 sections, is used to predict law students success.
The LSAT, which some people like and some people dislike, is to used predict the success of law students.
The LSAT, which is administered by the LSAC, is used to predict the success of law students.
Now imagine the amount of times we can input embedded clauses to make a sentence complex, especially by using referential phrases.
The LSAT, which is a online test that requires a stable internet connection and quiet space, is used to predict, which has been a controversial, law student, when they are applying, success.
A couple words on "which" referring to a clause (subject and predicate).
In this sense, I almost see "which" used as a causal indicator.
For example:
Preston has become a lawyer, which has helped the family tremendously.
Preston becoming a lawyer ---caused--> help for the family.
OR
The people of Narnia went to war, which saved the land.
People of Narnia going to war ---cause--> saving the land.
OR
The glamorous lifestyle of the wealthy is overblown, which is unfortunate.
The overblowing of the glamorous lifestyle of the wealthy ---caused--> a unfortunate situation.
Look, this is not as clear cut as causal relationships we have to examine on the LSAT. However, just knowing what a referential phrase is, how to spot it, and even the ability to break it down grammatically is not enough to do well on the LSAT. We have to understand the relationships that grammar conveys, specifically referential phrases. I use the term relationship in a very broad sense. Relationships is the LSAT, the LSAT is relationships.
Are you a student or a tutor? how are supposed to know when there is or isn't more valuable lessons in the comments....this beta version is starting to worry me a bit with the inconsistency.
Hi there,
Preston Bigley is a 7Sage student.
Let me know if you have any other questions, I am here to help.