@JohhG1010 You can diagram any question that has conditional relationships. If you do untimed drills, you can diagram to your heart's content. If you do timed drills, you can do the initial question without diagramming, then take as much time as you need to diagram during Blind Review.
ok, I was ahead of my schedule, until I got to this conditional sections. I am now behind for 2 weeks, because I have tried doing all the work in my head, thinking that I have to be able to master the skillset for the exam. It worked, but took me so much time. I am going to post the same comment on the first section of conditionals, just to make sure others don't fall into the same trap.
I feel like this kinda answers a question I've been sitting on, which is whether 7Sage suggests we straight-up memorize the words in the four groups of conditional indicators (Group 1: if, when, where, all, every, any, the only; Group 2: only, only if, only when, only where, always, must; etc.). It seems now like the answer is no, since we won't be diagramming during the test (except for one or two questions per section). It seems like 7Sage does want us confidently understand the relationship between those conditional indicators and the underlying logic, but not through rote memorization (or at least not necessarily through rote memorization).
@ToweringTextbooks Nope ... the very next lesson is a "you try" situation where the lesson expects me to have memorized which group the word "unless" is in. So yes, now I DO think 7Sage recommends we memorize these groups. (edit: keep reading this thread to find that 7Sage does NOT think memorization is the goal)
@ToweringTextbooks OK, double-nope (which is a double negative, so we're back to yup). Later in that same next lesson it says "Ultimately, you’ll get to a point where you read that statement and quickly know ..."
So maybe 7Sage is suggesting we memorize the words in the short term as a way of gaining fluency, but that when we arrive at the desired final understanding we won't need those group lists anymore.
@ToweringTextbooks OK, I found my concrete answer in the lesson called "Conditionals without Indicators." That lesson introduces an as-yet-unseen pseudo-indicator (the word "guarantees"). Of the strategy of simply adding "guarantees" to Group 2, and memorizing this new member, the lesson says "I wouldn't recommend that strategy. The reason is because it creates an illusion that you can master conditional logic by simply memorizing words in a list." Case closed: the goal is not simply to memorize.
What are the 'easier' points they are referencing? I am someone they described - around 152 - 54 on test right now, looking for 160 but just trying to get to +158 as the goal....should I not be as focused on conditional logic?
@DJC19 I think you can get a lot of value out improving your ability to identify conclusions and premises, recognizing standard flawed arguments and why they're flawed, reading more slowly and carefully as opposed to rushing/moving on when you're confused. It's these parts of the test that can more quickly pick up points. Conditional logic is still important, but mainly recognizing the confusion of sufficient and necessary conditions and the meaning of "only if" and "unless." You don't need to worry too much about diagramming complex stimuli or complicated conditional statements.
If I'm someone who will be getting extra time on the LSAT, do you think it is a good idea to focus on diagramming since I will most likely have enough time to map these things out?
Question for anyone else re-writing: The first time around I learned through diagraming, then I got to the point where I didn't need it anymore. Should I relearn the diagramming to start from scratch?
@DarrenHineman Usually it refers to drawing out arrows to track conditionals. But it could also refer to drawing out subsets and supersets. Drawing circles is inherently more unwieldy, so it tends to be less practical.
22 comments
This little pep talk was perfectly timed. tyyy
Ugh fine
is the video inverted for anyone else ?
Question how can we get more practice . Will these questions be on some drills ?
@JohhG1010 You can diagram any question that has conditional relationships. If you do untimed drills, you can diagram to your heart's content. If you do timed drills, you can do the initial question without diagramming, then take as much time as you need to diagram during Blind Review.
ok, I was ahead of my schedule, until I got to this conditional sections. I am now behind for 2 weeks, because I have tried doing all the work in my head, thinking that I have to be able to master the skillset for the exam. It worked, but took me so much time. I am going to post the same comment on the first section of conditionals, just to make sure others don't fall into the same trap.
I needed to hear this..all this
I just learn something by listening to them. It is a really good advice. On the move.
I feel like this kinda answers a question I've been sitting on, which is whether 7Sage suggests we straight-up memorize the words in the four groups of conditional indicators (Group 1: if, when, where, all, every, any, the only; Group 2: only, only if, only when, only where, always, must; etc.). It seems now like the answer is no, since we won't be diagramming during the test (except for one or two questions per section). It seems like 7Sage does want us confidently understand the relationship between those conditional indicators and the underlying logic, but not through rote memorization (or at least not necessarily through rote memorization).
@ToweringTextbooks Nope ... the very next lesson is a "you try" situation where the lesson expects me to have memorized which group the word "unless" is in. So yes, now I DO think 7Sage recommends we memorize these groups. (edit: keep reading this thread to find that 7Sage does NOT think memorization is the goal)
@ToweringTextbooks OK, double-nope (which is a double negative, so we're back to yup). Later in that same next lesson it says "Ultimately, you’ll get to a point where you read that statement and quickly know ..."
So maybe 7Sage is suggesting we memorize the words in the short term as a way of gaining fluency, but that when we arrive at the desired final understanding we won't need those group lists anymore.
@ToweringTextbooks OK, I found my concrete answer in the lesson called "Conditionals without Indicators." That lesson introduces an as-yet-unseen pseudo-indicator (the word "guarantees"). Of the strategy of simply adding "guarantees" to Group 2, and memorizing this new member, the lesson says "I wouldn't recommend that strategy. The reason is because it creates an illusion that you can master conditional logic by simply memorizing words in a list." Case closed: the goal is not simply to memorize.
What are the 'easier' points they are referencing? I am someone they described - around 152 - 54 on test right now, looking for 160 but just trying to get to +158 as the goal....should I not be as focused on conditional logic?
@DJC19 I think you can get a lot of value out improving your ability to identify conclusions and premises, recognizing standard flawed arguments and why they're flawed, reading more slowly and carefully as opposed to rushing/moving on when you're confused. It's these parts of the test that can more quickly pick up points. Conditional logic is still important, but mainly recognizing the confusion of sufficient and necessary conditions and the meaning of "only if" and "unless." You don't need to worry too much about diagramming complex stimuli or complicated conditional statements.
@Kevin_Lin thank you vm! Will work on these topics as suggested
If I'm someone who will be getting extra time on the LSAT, do you think it is a good idea to focus on diagramming since I will most likely have enough time to map these things out?
Question for anyone else re-writing: The first time around I learned through diagraming, then I got to the point where I didn't need it anymore. Should I relearn the diagramming to start from scratch?
Needed this!
Is there a specific place on here that we can just practice diagramming? Or a class?
It would be super helpful to integrate a diagramming practice section/drill.
@16dnholli Sometimes people during live classes the instructors diagram.
To clarify, by "diagramming" is it referring to using lawgic or using the subset and superset circles?
@DarrenHineman Usually it refers to drawing out arrows to track conditionals. But it could also refer to drawing out subsets and supersets. Drawing circles is inherently more unwieldy, so it tends to be less practical.