" i only work on tuesday " in lawgic

nathanieljschwartznathanieljschwartz Alum Member
in General 1723 karma

only is a group 2 indicator. So in lawgic it would be T->W ?

Comments

  • Freddy_DFreddy_D Core Member ⭐
    edited July 2017 2983 karma

    edit: see below

  • dcdcdcdcdcdcdcdcdcdc Alum Member
    382 karma

    If you are coming from the LSAT trainer,

    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/9223
    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/comment/38821
    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/comment/66022

  • nathanieljschwartznathanieljschwartz Alum Member
    1723 karma

    Yeah thanks. I finished the CC months ago and was just brushing up on logic and this turned me on my head

  • Heart Shaped BoxHeart Shaped Box Alum Member ⭐
    2426 karma

    @dcdcdcdcdc Thanks for the links! I was just about to do the same as I had the exact same question back in the day.

    The short answer is W ---> T. If you work, then has to be on Tuesday. T doesn't necessarily imply W. It could be a Tuesday and your not working. But if you do, gotta be on T.

    Can't get right (all other 7sagers in the above links as well) gave an excellent response in the post, I encourage you to check it out.

  • AlexAlex Alum Member ⭐
    23929 karma

    Group 2 for sure!

  • Heart Shaped BoxHeart Shaped Box Alum Member ⭐
    2426 karma

    @"Alex Divine" man that's such a safe answer but I have to say I totally agree! lol

  • AlexAlex Alum Member ⭐
    23929 karma

    @"Heart Shaped Box" said:
    @"Alex Divine" man that's such a safe answer but I have to say I totally agree! lol

    I spent a lot of time memorizing the indicators and now they are stuck in my head, lol

  • nathanieljschwartznathanieljschwartz Alum Member
    1723 karma

    So what i am getting from all this is that you cannot mechanically translate every sentence using the indicators. From @"Cant Get Right" explanation i see that since the sentence could be read "i work only on tuesday" vs. "I only work on tuesdays" we see that only is really modifying the tuesday not work? Well this complicates things.

  • Heart Shaped BoxHeart Shaped Box Alum Member ⭐
    edited July 2017 2426 karma

    We can mechanically translate every sentence using the logical indicators (when there is one), we just can't do so purely based on the its "positions". Instead, try to see what the sentence is actually saying. In this case, the emphasis is on Tuesday, in other words, Tuesday is the necessary condition even though "position" of only is right before W. It does take a while to get used to it in the beginning but as your logic foundation improves, it wouldn't be much of an issue for you I'm sure. This is one of the somewhat relatively rare instances where the flexibility of English as a natural language steps in.

  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27899 karma

    Here it is clear and the syntax is just a little wonky. We do have to be more concerned with the meaning of the statement. What does it mean to say that "I only work on Tuesday?" Conditionally, it could only mean:

    If it's Tuesday, I must work
    or
    If I'm working, it must be Tuesday

    So we can apply the indicators if we can dig through the syntax, but which option is really implied by the statement? For me here, intuition is much easier than mechanics. I don't have to work every Tuesday. If i'm working though, it's definitely Tuesday, right? So, W --> T.

    Here's a great thread on ambiguity where JY pitches in. It's a really great read on the topic:
    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/comment/73505

  • brigittebrigitte Free Trial Member
    edited July 2017 432 karma

    I think the reason this is confusing is that it's grammatically incorrect if the intended meaning is "If Work --> Then Tuesday". The LSAT, as far as I know, has NEVER expressed that idea in this fashion. It's not truly ambiguous -- the actual meaning of the statement as written is "If Tuesday -> Only Work" -- the person does nothing else besides work on Tuesday. The sole thing the person does on Tuesday is work. "On Tuesday I only work". "On Tuesday I solely work". That's what the statement means.

    You cannot fairly read "I only work on Tuesday" as "If Work -> then Tuesday" if we follow the rules of grammar. I know in real life we interpret that type of statement as "If work -> then Tuesday", but that's because we're imprecise. This error has come up in some self-made drills, too. But I have not seen this error on the LSAT. (let me know if you have an example)

    What we REALLY mean is "I work only on Tuesday" or "I work only if it's Tuesday" or "The only day I work is Tuesday". And it's just wrong to express that idea as "I only work on Tuesday."

  • brigittebrigitte Free Trial Member
    432 karma

    Another example from the Trainer. "Sarah only dates funny boys."

    If the intended meaning is that the only people Sarah dates are funny boys then that wording is just point blank wrong. The LSAT would not write that type of sentence, but course authors might come up with it as a self-made drill. What that statement, as written, actually means is that the only thing that sarah does is date funny boys. She doesn't do any other activity besides date funny boys.

  • akistotleakistotle Member ⭐ 🍌🍌
    edited July 2017 9382 karma

    This question was also asked on this page:
    https://7sage.com/lesson/4-translation-groups-summary/#comment-55477

    "I only work on Tuesdays" means "I work only on Tuesdays."

    T = Tuesday W = Go to work

    W --> T

    It means that Tuesdays are the only days I work. So If I'm working, it must be Tuesday. But do you know if I work on every Tuesday? No, because maybe I'm lazy and work only ten days a year.

    I believe the issue with "I only work on Tuesdays" is the ​placement of "only." S​ome argue that​ ​"​​only" should be placed immediately before the word or phrase it modifies.

    "I only gave him a dollar" should be "I gave him only a dollar."
    "I only ate a donut for dinner last night" should be "I ate only a donut for dinner last night."

    But there are people who think there is no danger of misreading "I only gave him a dollar" and that "​​​only" can​ be placed between the subject and the verb. I​ personally think "I only gave him a dollar" i​s natural, but there are people who think this is ungrammatical.​

    I understand that the placement of "only" confuses you when you mechanically apply the translation.

    As @"Cant Get Right" posted, I also had similar a question regarding "only" and asked on the Discussion Forum:
    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/11375/only-if

    Here is J.Y.'s response:
    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/comment/73502

    J.Y. says "It gets into the weeds of how ambiguous English is." But both J.Y. and @"Cant Get Right" confirmed that this kind of ambiguous arguments rarely appears on the actual LSAT. ​So I believe LSAC believes in the proper placement of "only" (=immediately before the word or phrase it modifies)​

  • OlamHafuchOlamHafuch Alum Member
    2326 karma

    Yes, such placement of "only" is well-accepted in modern English usage (when the meaning is clear), but technically, "only" should be placed before the thing it is modifying. See Bryan Garner's Modern English Usage. For example, you can get away with a sentence like "I only like ice cream," because it is clear that you mean that the only thing you like is ice cream, and not that your only relationship to ice cream is that you like it. It gets iffier with a sentence like, "I only work on Tuesday." That could very well be understood as meaning that the only thing I do on Tuesday is work; I don't play, eat, drink, etc. Therefore, if the intent was that the only day of the week you work on is Tuesday, clear writing would require you to write "I work only on Tuesday." That said, I believe that LSAC is very particular to place "only" where before what it is modifying.

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