Timed Problem Sets and Drills

alyhobbs

I apologize if this has already been answered but I could really use some clarification. I have searched through the forums many times and cannot seem to find a definitive answer on whether or not you should be timing your problem sets. I am about 80% through the CC for LR and I have not timed any problem sets. For many question types I have only done every other problem set to find my strengths and weaknesses so I still have plenty I can do timed. Unless I missed JY mentioning the time for problem sets somewhere in the CC, I have not seen anything about how long each set should take us. Currently, I am mainly focusing on understanding the questions types and how to properly answer them than I am the time, however I am wondering how long I should be timing each one.

I am also getting all of my materials ready for drills and I have the same question about timing. For the question types I struggle with I go through the question bank and use PTs 1-44. I plan on using PTs 45-59 for drills and I plan on taking PTs 60-83. I feel like in general I have a good plan but I am so confused on how long I should be timing each question. Anyone know this information or can point me to where it is located?

doyouevenLSAT

while timing is important, accuracy is as well. Try some untimed before moving to timed, unless you are already at a point where you are excellent at all question types. But at this point you should be applying the strategies you have learned to each question type and seeing if you are able get them right. Basically gauge to see how well you do on a couple untimed. If you find you are missing, then keep drilling. If it is becoming easy maybe add a timer.

Alex

@alyhobbs

I think it depends on your purpose behind your drilling. Sometimes you are drilling to learn, other times to get faster at certain questions. I do most of my targeted drilling untimed because speed is not my concern. Learning/getting better is the concern. Learn how to do something, do it right repeatedly, and speed will take care of itself.

Other times, we may be drilling to get faster at certain questions. This is best done when your accuracy is already taken care of. For example, most of 165+ scorers don't miss SA questions because they're so formulaic; however, I was getting them all but only after spending over 1:00+ on them. So I decided to drill SA questions for speed and timed those drills.

If you're main focus is currently understanding the q types, then I would recommend that you continue drilling untimed. But I also think that you should be doing timed sections at some point so you get very comfortable with the pressure of the clock.

alyhobbs

@doyouevenLSAT said:
while timing is important, accuracy is as well. Try some untimed before moving to timed, unless you are already at a point where you are excellent at all question types. But at this point you should be applying the strategies you have learned to each question type and seeing if you are able get them right. Basically gauge to see how well you do on a couple untimed. If you find you are missing, then keep drilling. If it is becoming easy maybe add a timer.

Yea this is what I have been doing because I agree about the importance of accuracy. I know if I add timing I would become too focused on how long I take. Even on untimed questions I find myself sometimes trying to rush and that is when I make the most mistakes. I know once i finish the CC completely I will start to incorporate timing more.

@"Alex Divine" said:
@alyhobbs

I think it depends on your purpose behind your drilling. Sometimes you are drilling to learn, other times to get faster at certain questions. I do most of my targeted drilling untimed because speed is not my concern. Learning/getting better is the concern. Learn how to do something, do it right repeatedly, and speed will take care of itself.

Other times, we may be drilling to get faster at certain questions. This is best done when your accuracy is already taken care of. For example, most of 165+ scorers don't miss SA questions because they're so formulaic; however, I was getting them all but only after spending over 1:00+ on them. So I decided to drill SA questions for speed and timed those drills.

If you're main focus is currently understanding the q types, then I would recommend that you continue drilling untimed. But I also think that you should be doing timed sections at some point so you get very comfortable with the pressure of the clock.

Well I haven't gotten to drilling yet but I am printing everything to become prepared. My plan is to drill while taking PTs. I plan on joining your group in March at PT 60 and drilling during the days I don't take a PT.

My biggest question is how long should I time myself when I do start? Is there a chart that breaks down how long each question should take based on LR, RC and LG? Iv'e seen some people say time the problem sets for 15 min and I have seen 10 min so I really don't know what is accurate to help me become prepared for the PTs. You say it was taking you over a minute for each SA question, what time were you aiming for? How do you know how long is reasonable?

doyouevenLSAT

@alyhobbs

there is no timer, but in the question bank they are rated by difficulty

• easy
  ** easier
  *** medium
  **** harder
  ***** hardest

1 and 2 stars should be 30 seconds. 1st pass through and you have the answer.
*** - i think generally you want it answerered between a minute to minute 20 (1-1:20)

4 and 5 and up - have strong referential phrasing and tough to eliminate answer choices.
If you can answer them under the 1 minute and 20 seconds that is great. But typically i think high scorers are able to bank time and save them for the end of a section because they skip them.

There is a webinar on this: https://7sage.com/webinar/post-core-curriculum-study-strategies/

What I did was when i went through drilling i grouped sub-types of the questions for later reference and saved and documented incorrect selections for continued review.

For example with sub-types
Flaws- i stored all the common flaws together (causation/correlation, confusing necessary for sufficiency, equivocation,)
Weaken - Causation
MBT - the different types of formulas and use of logical indicators (unless/ without)

Alex

@alyhobbs said:

@"Alex Divine" said:
@alyhobbs

I think it depends on your purpose behind your drilling. Sometimes you are drilling to learn, other times to get faster at certain questions. I do most of my targeted drilling untimed because speed is not my concern. Learning/getting better is the concern. Learn how to do something, do it right repeatedly, and speed will take care of itself.

Other times, we may be drilling to get faster at certain questions. This is best done when your accuracy is already taken care of. For example, most of 165+ scorers don't miss SA questions because they're so formulaic; however, I was getting them all but only after spending over 1:00+ on them. So I decided to drill SA questions for speed and timed those drills.

If you're main focus is currently understanding the q types, then I would recommend that you continue drilling untimed. But I also think that you should be doing timed sections at some point so you get very comfortable with the pressure of the clock.

Well I haven't gotten to drilling yet but I am printing everything to become prepared. My plan is to drill while taking PTs. I plan on joining your group in March at PT 60 and drilling during the days I don't take a PT.

Sounds like a good plan. I would try to implement some timed sections in there at some point before then. Doing timed sections is the best way to prep, in my opinion.

My biggest question is how long should I time myself when I do start? Is there a chart that breaks down how long each question should take based on LR, RC and LG? Iv'e seen some people say time the problem sets for 15 min and I have seen 10 min so I really don't know what is accurate to help me become prepared for the PTs.

There's no chart because like everything on the LSAT, the answer is it depends...

I think, on average, you want to be aiming to complete each LR question between :30 seconds and 1:30. For harder, longer, more challenging questions; e.g., parallel reasoning, you may need closer to 1:45 seconds. For simple main conclusion questions, aiming to get them done in under the :30-:45 second mark is ideal. The thing is, it's much harder to put a recommended time on each LR question like you can do with a logic game.

I think part of how long you aim to do these questions in also depends on where you are in your prep and what score you're aiming to achieve. Someone who wants to score a 155 is probably going to approach questions much differently than someone aiming for a 175. Likewise, someone just beginning is going to want to give themselves more time to complete certain questions than someone who is nearing the end of their prep.

You say it was taking you over a minute for each SA question, what time were you aiming for? How do you know how long is reasonable?

First, I took a recording of me doing a few LR sections and realized that I was clearly taking too long on SA questions. This revelation actually took place quite recently. I noticed it primarily because I usually can finish LR sections with ~8 minutes left or so, but on a recent PT, 2/4 of the last questions were SA questions that literally ended up eating about 4-5 minutes of that time. Granted, they were harder SA questions, but upon looking at the video footage I noticed they were all taking me too long and it helped to confirm my suspicion that many of them were taking too long.

I also kind of stopped drilling LR questions by type for a while and SA questions aren't all that common compared to more frequently appearing q types. So I feel like I went a long time without doing any challenging ones and actually got worse/slower at them!

Second, I know that SA questions should be super quick because of their formulaic nature. So the fact they're taking me the longest was a clear indicator I was going too slow on them.

How long I'm aiming for is contingent on the difficulty of the question. If it's a one star SA question, that's something I want to nail in :45 seconds. But again, I try to look more at how I do by comparing my time to the time it takes me to do a full section. So anytime I don't have ~7-8 minutes left, I know I've spent too much time somewhere. This is why I think at a certain stage taking video of you doing a section or two can be quite helpful in diagnosing speed concerns.

akistotle

@doyouevenLSAT said:
@alyhobbs

there is no timer, but in the question bank they are rated by difficulty

• easy
  ** easier
  *** medium
  **** harder
  ***** hardest

1 and 2 stars should be 30 seconds. 1st pass through and you have the answer.
*** - i think generally you want it answerered between a minute to minute 20 (1-1:20)

4 and 5 and up - have strong referential phrasing and tough to eliminate answer choices.
If you can answer them under the 1 minute and 20 seconds that is great. But typically i think high scorers are able to bank time and save them for the end of a section because they skip them.

There is a webinar on this: https://7sage.com/webinar/post-core-curriculum-study-strategies/

What I did was when i went through drilling i grouped sub-types of the questions for later reference and saved and documented incorrect selections for continued review.

For example with sub-types
Flaws- i stored all the common flaws together (causation/correlation, confusing necessary for sufficiency, equivocation,)
Weaken - Causation
MBT - the different types of formulas and use of logical indicators (unless/ without)

While I think this is great advice, getting 1 or 2 star questions in 30 seconds seems too ambitious. If you look at J.Y.'s timing sheet of PT80 (click "See timing sheet here.") He spends 40-60 seconds on 1 or 2 star questions.

Sailor Moon LSAT

All the answers were really helpful for me!!! thank you

alyhobbs

Wow thank you @doyouevenLSAT and @"Alex Divine" for both of your thorough answers. It is taking me some time but I have gone ahead and started printing out the LR drills so I can start practicing with timing both before I take PTs and during. My prep seems to be much more than anticipated but now that I have some direction in regards to timing I know more of what I need to focus on.

@"Alex Divine" I never thought about recording myself. That is actually a good idea, thanks for sharing that.

Also @akistotle thank you for your reply. I actually didn't know JY had timing sheets so that is something I will be reviewing for when I start taking PTs.