Feeling Discouraged

Isaiah4110

I’m beginning to think that law school is not for me and I will never be able to reach my goal of a 170.

I work full time so I cannot dedicate a huge amount of time to studying during the week. However, I began learning the test material last July but have only switched to using 7Sage this January. Initially I was just using it as a supplement to my study material from another company but soon realized that 7Sage is superior and fits my style of learning a lot better. So I have been using it exclusively ever since. I have to be honest that I skipped sections of the CC (certain question types and LG) because I have taken a full length LSAT course and have done a decent amount of drills before switching to 7Sage.

I took a five section test (from more recent years) this past Saturday and scored the same as when I did in January. -2 LG, -10 RC, and -17 LR. I have narrowed RC to -4 to -6 and LR to -7 to -10 on PTs 35-45 before. Even though I’m not sure what happened but I don’t think this is an anomaly because I have had similar disastrous performance on the more recent PTs. How can the PTs be this different?

What should I do? I don’t even know what to focus on anymore. I refuse to believe that I have hit my own ceiling, but have I? All the comfort and confidence I built up from previous PTs are all of a sudden go.

I do a mixture of timed and untimed sections, primarily LRs and RCs throughout the week, along with additional drills from CC if necessary; and a full length PT on the weekend. I take my time to BR and watch video explanations. What am I doing wrong? How is it possible that I have not made significant progress since January? Please help me. I feel disappointed and mostly, so lost. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

ebalde1234

Hey sorry to hear that you are feeling so discouraged ( very rarely do students not feel like this every now and then during prep due to the dip and rise of their scores from PT's or actual tests due to a variety of factors psychological/ study methods) . Looking at where you started off and where you are now I would say there is a difference in points , especially with LR.

I noticed you said you skipped parts of the CC- I wonder if those areas are your weaknesses ?

The general approach is to identify weaknesses from tests and work on those ( blind review) ; while drilling the sections/fool proofing. It can be anything from lack of understanding to rushing through sections- after doing the CC/ majority of it.

If you have been doing the following and not seeing a return on your study I would recommend even a consult with tutors from 7sage ( most do this for free and you can see where to go from there) . Good luck and hang in there

akistotle

Hey @Isaiah4110,

I really know how you feel. I was also stuck in the high 150s range for a really long time.

That being said, what was your BR score for the test you took? If it isn't 170+, I'm sorry to say this, but you still have to work on your fundamentals. If it is 170+, maybe you can video record yourself and see where you are losing time.

I also recommend working with a tutor. Here is a list of 7Sage's approved tutors: https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/4760/7sages-approved-tutors/p1

Here are some threads that elaborate on the benefits of recording:

How to set it up
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/6986/video-mount-for-camera-to-record-myself-doing-an-lr-section
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/8121/recording
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/8285/recording-pts
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/11364/recording-yourself
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/11803/devices-for-self-recording
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/11984/recording-your-self-while-working-through-logic-games
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/14483/how-to-record-yourself
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/14592/recording-pt-s

How recording yourself can help you
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/comment/48273 ( @"Cant Get Right"'s comment)
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/12424/recording-yourself-while-practicing
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/12523/huge-gap-in-br-and-actual-score
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/12923/recording-yourself-what-do-you-look-for
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/14260/recording-rc

btate87

I'm sorry you're hitting a discouraging time in your prep. Remember those moments hit everyone. Regressing on scores can be a major hit to your confidence and motivation. Try not to get too down on yourself - it only ever takes one good score to get the optimism back up.

Here are some things that came to my mind that may be worth exploring.

1) I know work can make maximizing study time troublesome, but how many days per week do you tend to study? I don't think there is a precise minimum amount of time required to maintain or increase your performance level. However, I do think consistency is a key ingredient for most people. In my experience, 5-6 days/week (ideally 13 out of 14 days), 2-3 hours/day minimum was the sweet spot for improvement. If I dropped down to 3-4 days/week I was lucky to maintain scores from previous weeks. The days/week was more important than the hours/day, though. We all learn differently, but I can't stress enough the difference emphasis on regularity over gross total study time can make in the learning process.

2) How is your balance of full PT & BR to the other weekly work you mention? It's not unusual for me to have a BR stretch on a few days. Cramming BR into too short of a time can make it hard to get everything out of it. On the other hand, letting it stretch into the week can disrupt other important drills. Taking a few weeks to do only single sections at a time might help you shift into a schedule you can get more out of. I was probably at my most productive when I limited my BR time per day so I could get on to other studying and made sure I had 2-3 days off between BR and the next PT for other studying.

3) How do you approach untimed sections? I personally avoided straight untimed sections. Set a stopwatch and note when time is up, but keep going until you finish. If you get nervous when the clock is on, this is a great way to acclimate yourself to the timer. Once you start generally finishing sections in time, I would reserve untimed sections strictly for review. Don't underestimate how helpful it can be to pull out a PT you did months ago and work through the whole test again. Blind Review gets a lot of well deserved credit, but Not-Blind Review can be super helpful as well.

4) What is your strategy on timed sections? Are you hurrying trying to finish, or are you working at your average pace and missing most of your points at the end? If you're finishing, do you miss many questions in the first half of an LR section? Are you RC misses concentrated on passages you misunderstood (maybe read too quickly?), or are they spread evenly? If you feel rushed on timed sections, look for signs you may be going too quickly to give each question your best shot.

5) Finally, make sure that you're not missing question types from lessons you skipped in the CC. Err on the side of caution and do anything that may help. You never know when JY is going to drop a knowledge bomb you didn't know you needed. Definitely make sure you didn't skip any lessons on fundamentals. Absolutely zero of those lessons should be skipped. No exceptions.

Hopefully something in there is helpful! Stay at it!

keets993

Hey @Isaiah4110,

I know you feel really discouraged right now because you think you haven't improved at all and it's okay to feel that way. However, as everyone has stated, there are two scores that you should take note of when doing a PT: your actual score and your blind review score. Your blind review score is your theoretical maximum because it's what you can get without time restraints. It's also theoretical because it doesn't account for overconfidence errors (things you thought you knew timed and didn't circle for BR but got wrong), in that sense I mean you can't change an answer for a question during BR that you didn't circle for BR. You guage your knowledge and understanding through BR which translates to confidence on the next PTs.

I don't know about you but I did everything during the curriculum untimed and timing is a big aspect of taking a PT. Timed conditions is where application happens and there's so much to take into account: did you use skipping strategies like 25 in 25 for LR, did you get hung up on an RC passage with only 5 questions and not get to have enough time for a passage with 8 questions, did you allow yourself to freeze up during LG instead of just going through the rules, etc. These things take practice and if you peruse through the forums you'll see that it's pretty common for people to have similar timed PT scores pre-curriculum as they do post-curriculum. The first post-curriculum PT is just the beginning of your journey. You're not a jedi yet you're a padawan. You have to take a bunch more (but don't push through them, BR properly) before you have enough data to assuage your weaknesses.

Lastly, you have to account for fatigue. It's not an excuse but it's something to consider. Are you warming up adequately? It takes practice to figure out what is an adequate warm-up for you. You're like a runner who has been training for a marathon by running 10 or 15 minutes a day. This was your first time attempting the 3 hour marathon. It's okay to feel discouraged! Just remember that there's things you can do to make your next ones more successful.

Isaiah4110

@ebalde1234 @akistotle @btate87 @keets993 Thank you for your encouraging words!

My BR score is 163, which is still lower than what I want. Reading your comments made me realize that I am probably not taking enough time to BR. I usually try to finish BR within 2 days of taking the test, and that means after work. How long does it take for you?

I usually study 2-3 hours during the week and do the bulk of studying on the weekend.
My weakest question type so far is Flaw, which is unfortunate since it is the most common question type on the test. I am able to pinpoint what the flaw is most of the time, but always, always, always get so lost in the answer choices; even for the easier questions. I have finished almost all of the flaw drills with BR and video explanations but I still haven't improved to the desired degree.

Timing is my second biggest issue. I have noticed that it usually takes me anywhere from 12-15 minutes to do the first 10 questions, even though I have been told by LSAT instructors that you should aim to finish the first 10 in 10 minutes. I also second guess myself more than I should. It takes me a while to warm up, so I welcome any warm up exercises you do before you start a PT. I know you are supposed to skip questions, which I currently do for PR and PF questions, but part of me always want to finish every question.

I have tried a number of RC strategies. What are your opinions on working through only 3 passages instead of 4? I am a slow reader, and I am almost always rushing towards the end with about 5-6 minutes left for the last passage. I know it is a gamble since you don't know the difficult of the passage until you start reading. But my RC score increases when I allot more time to each passage, and the only way to do that is to focus on 3 instead of 4 passages. I would still guess on the 4th passage. This strategy has worked sometimes and not others.

Any advice from you will be greatly appreciated!

keets993

@Isaiah4110 it takes me a long time to BR, probably a few hours per section, except for LG. That's because you need to break down the stimulus, the structure, and should have a really good understanding of the stimulus and question-stem before you head to the answer choices. Then you should break down why the four incorrect answer choices are incorrect and why the correct one is correct. I think in total it takes me a few days.

The idea that you should do "10 in 10 minutes" does not necessarily mean you should complete all 10 questions. Just that if you read the stimulus, realize it's not sticking or making sense, you skip the question and come back to it later. It doesn't matter if it's question 1, 6, whatever. Also, if you read the stimulus, eliminate 2-3 answre choices and are stuck between the remaining ones, at that point you should skip. It's all about diminishing returns! You should try to do this as "25 in 25" so that you lay your eyes on 25 questions by the 25 minute mark. That way, once you have seen them all you can identify which ones feast on your weaknesses and you shouldn't even attempt under timed conditions. This gives you more time to focus on the "low-hanging fruit" the questions that you know you can get correct. Sometimes those earlier questions you skipped once you come back to them, it might just take you an extra 30 seconds to complete.

Do you do low-res summaries for RC? I've found that if my low-res summary is adequate enough, I can usually easily answer half the questions on the passage. The rest is about verifying with the passage or making inferences.

As @akistotle has said since your BR is in the low 160s it might be beneficial for you to go back through the curriculum. Try memorizing the 21 common flaw types. Quiz yourself on them every-day, that should help you close the gap with flaw questions because at least the common ones will become low hanging fruit.

ebalde1234

I usually br a day or so after I take the pt timed ; from past experience when I went through the cc the first time I wasn’t active in absorbing the info I was very passive in trying to learn it . Check how your focus is when you are studying it’s not about studying harder but rather smarter . You want to target and isolate your weaknesses while keeping up your strengths by drilling to reinforce what you know . Timing and pace will come from more practice - it’s one thing to get them wrong during a timed pt but untimed and you still get it wrong (is a sign that it’s the content ) . Another key thing is managing timing anxiety (some like to close their eyes and breath for a few seconds before starting / getting into a habit of meditating ). The lsat is often referred to as a marathon - you have to keep the momentum going and not get discouraged over a low score here and there . Rc drilling might help you with timing - try to drill older tests 1-38/40. Underline key words but don’t get caught up annotating . If you find yourself getting more questions right by skipping then it might be better then rushing through the whole thing; with practice you will learn to adopt your strategies . Feel free to pm

Ohnoeshalpme

I'm in a really similar spot. I recently filmed myself taking a PT and found that I wasted around 8 minutes on a few questions that I got correct, but refused to move forward until I had eliminated all of the other answers. I also burned about 5 minutes on questions that I didn't understand at all. For example, I spent a whole 4 minutes on a 5/5 difficulty science question because I was drawing a diagram to help myself understand the science. We all do stupid stuff like this because it's what we do in real life. One of the biggest hurdles with the LSAT for a lot of people is separating our inherent need to deeply understand and question what we're reading. Instead we have to find the relevance of an argument, and deeply understand how the pieces - speakers, subjects, references, premises and conclusions - interact to form a strong or weak argument. This obviously takes exposure and tons of blind-review work and drilling but it can be done.

I suggest that you film yourself taking a PT and you will probably see a few things that you didn't realize yourself.

Isaiah4110

@keets993 Thank you for the 25 in 25 strategy. I remember reading about it a while ago but somehow remembered it to mean "answer" instead of "lay your eyes" on 25 questions in 25 minutes. The latter makes more sense. I have noticed that I often have an easier time figuring out the answer after coming back to the question for a second time. So I will mostly definitely give it a try. I always thought skipping around the section is a waste of time but as @Ohnoeshalpme said, so much about this test is counterintuitive. Thank you for sharing this strategy!

@ebalde1234 I have drilled RC using older tests. But my RC score drops when I do a more recent test. I need to do more practice on comparative passages.

@Ohnoeshalpme I have definitely done that before. I get so stubborn about answering that one question, especially if it's earlier in the section since it means it's probably an easy question. I will try to film myself to help me figure out where I'm losing the time.

Thank you all so much!