165 (September) –> 167 (January), 3.70 GPA. Chances at t20 for next cycle?

ALLCAA123

Hi everyone,

I'm curious what you think. I want to practice law in the midwest or south, and I'm looking at schools like WUSTL, Vandy, and UT-Austin. I might send an app to GULC/Cornell just for the hell of it– I'm leaning a little toward NY BigLaw; not sure at this point, but if I get in at a t15 northeastern school, I'd heavily consider it. In addition to my gpa/lsat, I have cookie-cutter softs for a law school applicant, and assume average LORs and personal statement. I have some part-time work experience from undergrad and I'm taking a gap year to work as a court clerk before going to law school.

What do you guys think about my chances at the schools listed? I tried MyLSN and 7sage's predictor, but they're giving conflicting reports. 7sage says that I'd have ~80% chance at WUSTL, but the MyLSN graph shows a lot of people with my stats getting waitlisted/rejected. Also, are the 2019 ABA 509 reports for schools the official stats/medians for next cycle (fall 2020), or will schools come out with Class of 2023 stats later this year as the new application window opens?

Thank you all. I owe my improvement to 7sage!

lexxx745

I dont think 7sage predictor is that accurate just a rough estimate, personally i think MyLSN would be more accurate.

I mean its tough, assuming average softs LOR resume, etc I think u could get into one or two t15 if you apply incredibly early. But it also wouldnt be surprising for you to get into none. Is a third retake out of the question? I mean you already improved from 165-167 just 1 extra point could be huge. What have your PT scores been?

ALLCAA123

@lexxx745 said:
I dont think 7sage predictor is that accurate just a rough estimate, personally i think MyLSN would be more accurate.

I mean its tough, assuming average softs LOR resume, etc I think u could get into one or two t15 if you apply incredibly early. But it also wouldnt be surprising for you to get into none. Is a third retake out of the question? I mean you already improved from 165-167 just 1 extra point could be huge. What have your PT scores been?

Thanks! My PT scores have been all over the place. There was a time when I had high 160s/low 170s, then I dropped down to the low 160s for more recent PTs (namely for PT 75 through 89). I might add, on both takes, I was unable to sleep for the whole night. Went into both exams with 0 hours of sleep– unintentional all-nighters. I tried everything. I exercised vigorously (2 hours of fast swimming and weights), followed my regular routine, took sleeping aids, and nothing worked. By the time I got to section 5 for both exams, I was guessing at the LR problems, going by gut feeling and flagging a ton of questions. I burned 3 minutes on a single 'justify the principle' question for my 167 take Luckily RC and LG were manageable. I had no problems there.

My fear is that I'll sign up for a third take and the same thing will happen– zero hours of sleep because of nerves, and lower test day performance. Unless there's something I can do about it, I'll take my 167 and run. I just wanted to know my odds at a t20 school, or a comparable t30 for the same career goal.

lexxx745

They do take the highest score. Do you not think you can improve a bit? You have the entire 2020 till you have to apply. Although if you really feel burned out/no point to continuing you can take your chances. Even one point on the LSAT would make a huge diff. With your GPA id try a third time! And I think you can do it especially if youve been at the high 160s low 170s

ExcludedMiddle

I've had the exact same problem with sleeping before the LSAT, and I've really not found anything that works for it. I haven't sat for the LSAT since last July. I got a 165 and decided to probably just stick with that score, partially because I've dealt with the same issues you have, but although my cycle has gone well I do wonder how much another 2-5 points would've helped me, and whether I may miss out on going to a T14/T20 due to it. I seemed to be moving into a new score range right around last fall, but I also felt burnout coming on and worried not sleeping would keep me from really getting to that next level. I imagine we both have the sense that if we were able to take the LSAT on 7-8 hours' worth of sleep, we could do a lot better. I definitely left the test center in July knowing that I did well, but wondering nonetheless if some of the little mistakes and problems I had would've occurred had I slept well (e.g. didn't do a LG the way I should've, took longer to finish LR sections than I normally would've, etc., all of which might have been attributable to fatigue).

That being said, even as it can be frustrating to not sleep before the LSAT, I think a lot of it may actually just be somewhat in our heads. My score on the July LSAT was not unpredictable; it was largely in line with my practice sections and PTs. I'm not sure that not getting any sleep before the LSAT plays as much of a role as we might think it does at first glance. That is one reason why I may retake again to try to get off of waitlists/improve my scholarships. While I do think sleeping well would help both of us, I'm also not sure I buy into the notion that it is necessarily as detrimental as we might initially feel inclined to think it is.