Are the 80+ PTs harder?

Oni LSAT

Hi everyone. For the past ten to fifteen PTs, I've been scoring around low-mid 170s and blind reviewing anywhere from 176-180. I recently started getting into the 80+ PT range and have taken three 80+ PTs so far. For the first two PTs (80 and 85), my score dropped to 168 and 169 respectively.

I feel like the RC has become longer and harder even with structural understanding of the passage. As for the LR, I found out that it was wordier with newer hidden tricks in the density of the stimulus.

Is there something that I can drill to address these new changes that I have perceived to be causing issues for me? Thank you.

lexxx745

Hm Idk I think be careful with how many of the 80s you take as u wanna save em. Personally, I didnt feel they were harder or easier, just different. In fact, my RC score has been the best in the few 80s test ive taken.

LR has been more or less the same maybe a bit lower, LG has been more or less the same

Oni LSAT

I'm a little over two weeks away from the May Flex. I've taken almost everything in 40s, 50s, 60s, and half of 70s. I am trying out the 80s to see if there are newer tricks and changes in the latest PTs. RC is usually my worst section but 80, 84 (scored 173 but struggled), and 85 have been exceptionally hard.

henrylxix

I had this exact same issue - been taking the 60s, 70s, and 80s PTs in a mostly randomized order and my score dropped significanly when I took my first couple tests in the 80s. I was averaging ~173 on 60s and 70s tests but then got 168 and 165 on PT 88 and 85, respectively. Like lexxx said above, I don't think they're necessarily harder, but they are different and take some getting used to. Just make sure you do really in depth review, and watch the 7sage video explanations for the reading passages and LR questions you struggled with. That was pretty much all I did and then my scores jumped right back up on the next two 80s PTs I took (these were 82 and 83, so someone feel free to correct me if these are particularly easy or something).

Krista_A

The 80s are kicking my ass too! I went from missing 3 in RC (every. time.) to missing NINE (9!!!!!) on pt83 and SEVEN today on 84! What the hell? I NEVER ever even practiced RC because I have never missed more than 4, over the course of like 20-30 tests, and now my whole understanding of the world is shattered. Okay, dramatic perhaps, but I'm with you. I'm gonna take the advice henrylxix and visit the RC curriculum tonight and this weekend before I try again next week. I too have been saving the 80s for these weeks leading up to the May test, and now that I've tried a few I'm feeling so discouraged. Good luck to you, let me know please if you have any big breakthroughs!

Oni LSAT

Thank you so much @Krista_A and @henrylxix

I can't tell you how comforting it is that you've shared my experience. I was dumbfounded and I was shocked that it may be possible my foundations in LSAT were degrading over time even though I am constantly studying. I have learned certain tricks from my first two 80s in LR and managed to get it to -0 to -3 on my most recent PT 84.

RC is still a disaster for me because I find the passages harder to retain in memory while the structure itself isn't an issue. This means that I'm spending more time going back to the passage than I'd like. Normally, I didn't have time constraint issues on RC until the PT80+.

lexxx745

Haha my RC scores are best in 80s
I think i took 4 test in 80s never went worse than -4 with two -2s

lexxx745

I think my LR is worse though

jmarmaduke96

I think I agree with @lexxx745 I personally find the RC and LG a little more digestible in the 80s. The LR seems to be a little touch and go, but nothing extreme. I think at the end of the day the differences really are pretty superficial. The core skills that are being tested are all the same. If you were doing that well in RC before the 80s I see no reason why that cant continue. Is your main problem in these newer PTs just the details in the passage and having to remember them for the questions?

lsatchanceu

I experienced something similar in my prep early on, the 80s PTs rocked me at first. I think the fluctuation is exposing that your fundamentals need improvement. You probably have more of a somewhat surface level understanding than is helpful. Echoing at least one other commenter, certain tricks characterize certain administration "eras" if you will, but the fundamental skills remain the same. Before I took January 2020 (we'd surmise its LR is more similar to the 80s than other eras), my last 5 fresh PTs were from the 1992 to 1996 era and I averaged 169. My January 2020 score? 169. I'm only one person, but I can say that consistency is not something I would have had earlier in my prep (about 12 months total).

Keep drilling the fundamentals, e.g. knowing the precise mission of each and every LR question type, foolproofing games, developing a mechanistic understanding of RC (reading for reasoning structure) and eventually they'll start to look at lot more similar across eras.

Oni LSAT

Thank you everyone for your advice. I think that the difficulty may be superficial and I was trying to figure out what exactly is causing the issues that I had.

I think I figured out the LR section was fairly similar with more details so that’s no issue as I bounced back my LR performance once I saw the little changes. As for RC, I am going to review the CC and see where I am going off the beaten path.

Oni LSAT

Quick update for any readers in the future. I felt that there were minor new tricks in the newer PTs. I was able to jump back to 172-175 range after thoroughly reviewing my PTs. It may require some minor adjustments on how you go through the LR.

PPPPreme

@"Oni LSAT" preciate this update sir. This has been a big fear of mine. I'm on the earlier ones still BUT I've done a few of the later ones and have done significantly worse on them, so this makes me feel better. Just more of an adjustment thing?

Oni LSAT

That was the case for me. Do not be discouraged by variation when you jump from older tests to newer tests. The logical foundations are exactly the same. Thoroughly review and I'm sure you will be back to your PT average or even higher!

caffeine powered human

@"Oni LSAT" said:
Quick update for any readers in the future. I felt that there were minor new tricks in the newer PTs. I was able to jump back to 172-175 range after thoroughly reviewing my PTs. It may require some minor adjustments on how you go through the LR.

Could you be more specific on what kind of minor new tricks you spotted in the newer PTs? My LR has been suffering in the early 80s range, and I am very frustrated. I’ve been thoroughly BRing the questions I struggled with (esp 80 & 81), but 82 was worse for me than 80 and 81, in terms of LR. I’d appreciate it if you could clarify what changes you saw and what you did to combat them!

Oni LSAT

@"caffeine powered human" said:

@"Oni LSAT" said:
Quick update for any readers in the future. I felt that there were minor new tricks in the newer PTs. I was able to jump back to 172-175 range after thoroughly reviewing my PTs. It may require some minor adjustments on how you go through the LR.

Could you be more specific on what kind of minor new tricks you spotted in the newer PTs? My LR has been suffering in the early 80s range, and I am very frustrated. I’ve been thoroughly BRing the questions I struggled with (esp 80 & 81), but 82 was worse for me than 80 and 81, in terms of LR. I’d appreciate it if you could clarify what changes you saw and what you did to combat them!

Sure, the largest difference that I've noticed is the wordier LR which can make it harder to keep track of the overall stimulus. I usually never miss SA questions during my 60s and 70s PT but I've noticed that the 80s have answers that are super attractive and somewhat similar to the correct answer choice. I was too confident when I saw an SA due to my track record before so I had to manually make myself be more careful and read with scrutiny when I see an SA during the 80s.

I also usually do well on NA question types but noticed that it gets wordier and the required assumption gets cloudier to see in my head. In order to address this, I started negating my answer choice to see if it destroys the argument during my timed exam which is something that I didn't really put to use since it requires more time per question. Sometimes there are a lot of unnecessary sentences that aren't important to the main argument such as PT89.S4.Q14 where the goal of the stimulus is to confuse you instead of allowing you to see the actual argument. I started to divert my main attention to shortening the argument in my head to address the wordier LR stimulus.

mhf.andrew

I think the raw scores, how much test takers get out of 101 or so questions, has remained fairly constant. Usually you can get 2 or 3 wrong to get a 180, and I do not think that has changed. If those scores do not change, I think that this is a good indication that LSAT is not imposing more difficulty on tests-- and even if they did, the test is still curved, so test takers are in no shape or manner at a disadvantage.
It is interesting though, that you suspect LR and RC have gotten more difficult. As you may know, 7Sage is particularly strong at teaching LG, so strong, in fact, that they were asked by LSAT to take down their free youtube videos on LG. Suppose LSAT has gradually been making LR and RC more difficult in comparison to the difficulty to LG. If this is true, those who take courses particularly strong in LG might see more of a drop on tests that do not reward this section to the same degree.

caffeine powered human

@"Oni LSAT" said:

@"caffeine powered human" said:

@"Oni LSAT" said:
Quick update for any readers in the future. I felt that there were minor new tricks in the newer PTs. I was able to jump back to 172-175 range after thoroughly reviewing my PTs. It may require some minor adjustments on how you go through the LR.

Could you be more specific on what kind of minor new tricks you spotted in the newer PTs? My LR has been suffering in the early 80s range, and I am very frustrated. I’ve been thoroughly BRing the questions I struggled with (esp 80 & 81), but 82 was worse for me than 80 and 81, in terms of LR. I’d appreciate it if you could clarify what changes you saw and what you did to combat them!

Sure, the largest difference that I've noticed is the wordier LR which can make it harder to keep track of the overall stimulus. I usually never miss SA questions during my 60s and 70s PT but I've noticed that the 80s have answers that are super attractive and somewhat similar to the correct answer choice. I was too confident when I saw an SA due to my track record before so I had to manually make myself be more careful and read with scrutiny when I see an SA during the 80s.

I also usually do well on NA question types but noticed that it gets wordier and the required assumption gets cloudier to see in my head. In order to address this, I started negating my answer choice to see if it destroys the argument during my timed exam which is something that I didn't really put to use since it requires more time per question. Sometimes there are a lot of unnecessary sentences that aren't important to the main argument such as PT89.S4.Q14 where the goal of the stimulus is to confuse you instead of allowing you to see the actual argument. I started to divert my main attention to shortening the argument in my head to address the wordier LR stimulus.

Thank you so much!