US News vs Above The Law

Mike Stone

Seems to me that these two websites are the most popular as far as law school research and rankings. I'm finding in several cases that they don't always jive with each other though.

I'm scoring 160s on my PTs, take LSAT in Dec, so I'm not looking at T14. So, it doesn't matter to me that Yale is US News #1 and ATL #6.... What does concern me is that USC (my top prospect) is US News #20 and does not even make the ATL Top 50... and Arizona State (2nd favorite, 2nd highest ranked on my app list) is US News #26 and ATL ~36ish.

Which is the most reliable? Is there a third reliable site I don't know of? How heavily should I concern myself with these rankings/school prestige?

As always, I thank you all in advance for your insights.

Pacifico

Are you K-JD? To me that is one of the biggest issues people overlook when looking at rankings. Since most law students are K-JD, the employment statistics tend to be representing how well that particular school prepares people who have never had a real full time job to gain employment in the legal profession. In my opinion, if you are older you should have some shit going for you that can help overcome any shortcomings in your school's ranking.

AFAIK ATL is based more on employment outcomes than anything else, so that should give you pause if you see someone fall out of their rankings. But again, if you're older you should be able to make shit happen for yourself no matter where you go. Even if you went to a terrible law school you should still hopefully outperform your classmates and then you will end up being one of the people bolstering their shitty employment numbers. But that's just my two cents.

Mike Stone

Thank you for your insight. I'm not K-JD, but barely. I finished undergrad in 2014, and intend to matriculate in Fall 2016 (23 years old). I have a bit of work experience in that time frame, although I think its safe to say my internships during college are more impressive than anything I've done since then. But yes, I do have some things going for me that a K-JD may not. In light of that, would you say it makes more sense to consider the US News rankings more seriously than the ATL rankings, because I may have an edge in employment outcomes?

Mike Stone

@Pacifico ^

J.H. Song

@"Mike Stone" Which one you take more seriously is up to you to decide after looking into their methodology. But the USNWR is by and large the standard for law school rankings. That being said, ATL emphasizes employment numbers and takes into account regional differences.

For your specific concerns, I wouldn't worry too much about USC being lower ranked by ATL. USC's placement numbers are pretty good in Southern California. They go toe to toe with UCLA for the "regional crown". So unless you're looking for national portability (in which case I still think USC is a solid choice outside of the T14), both USC and ASU should be fine.

J.H. Song

If you have a regional preference for employment after law school, rankings become much less important, and respective job placements, alumni networks, and regional reputation becomes much more critical.

Mike Stone

@"J.H. Song" thank you, that is very good to know. I don't have much regional preference nor any specific allegiance to an area (at this point), but I do know I'd like to go away from home (New York), with the option of national portability. Where would you suggest I research national portability of schools below the top 20? (Specifically, ASU, UC Davis, UNC, UGeorgia, BC/BU... my range is mid 20s to mid 30s.)

J.H. Song

@"Mike Stone" What area of law do you want to practice? If you are thinking big law, and T-14 is out of the question, then region will matter. So you will have to do some research to at least have an idea of where you want to work before making the decision. It's really difficult to claim that school A's degree is more nationally recognized than school B's degree. Once you get to 25-35, rankings don't matter as much as their regional strengths. Depending on what area of law you'd like to get into, look at each school's placement numbers on the various types of work, regions they get employed, etc.

Mike Stone

@"J.H. Song" I'm mostly interested in sport law and entertainment law (in that order), but it is my understanding that big law is the most common and most beneficial first step before finding my niche. I'm mostly looking at ASU right now, as they offer a sport law and business emphasis. All schools I'm looking at (except USC @20) rank between 26 (ASU) and 34 (BC UNC Georgia OSU all tied). If you say it doesn't matter then you recommend I base my decision on where I want to work after graduation, as opposed to the rankings/courses they offer?

EmergingAttorney180

@"Mike Stone" said:
I'm mostly interested in sport law and entertainment law (in that order), but it is my understanding that big law is the most common and most beneficial first step before finding my niche. I'm mostly looking at ASU right now, as they offer a sport law and business emphasis. All schools I'm looking at (except USC @20) rank between 26 (ASU) and 34 (BC UNC Georgia OSU all tied). If you say it doesn't matter then you recommend I base my decision on where I want to work after graduation, as opposed to the rankings/courses they offer?

Hey Mike, figured I'd chime in here with my opinion.

Outside of the T14ish schools, desired region of practice should be a, if not the, top factor in choosing a law school. It's cool that ASU offers a program on sports law, but the real question should be whether the program will help you find employment in that field.

You should go into a non-T14 school with an expectation to practice in that general region. While it is certainly possible to make it from, say ASU to practice in San Francisco, without ties to the region it may be difficult to do so. Some regional schools do have more national reach than others, though.

A good source you can use is the ABA's employment summaries. You can find them on most law schools websites or the ABA's website. Here's one for ASU Law. Note that the state where most graduates found work was Arizona. (The next most common state of employment was California, where only 12 graduates went to work). https://www.law.asu.edu/sites/default/files/aba_employment_disclosure_form.pdf

Also, anecdotally, I have heard USC and UCLA are great options to pursue entertainment law from. This is assuming you want to work in California initially.

Mike Stone

@EmergingAttorney180 holy crap. thank you so much. that was profoundly specific and I really appreciate that. I'll look for those employment summaries for all my schools, but that is an excellent kick start. I have heard good things about living in AZ. I don't think I'd mind it.

PS-I would do anything to go to USC or UCLA, and would love to work in California, but I dont know if my LSAT/GPA combo will be high enough. Definitely plan on applying regardless, hoping for a miracle.

EmergingAttorney180

No problem Mike, glad I could help.

Don't give up hope on UCLA/USC. Take the February LSAT if you don't score high enough on the December test. Work hard on your personal statement, and write a convincing addendum for both schools on why you want to go there. Good luck.