Relative Ordering

joy.pyles

I would like to ask this question.

For relative ordering.
Q - R- P - L
l
G - F

Given the above, who is, could, should or would be first and last and what is the order and ranking?

Also for the same problem.

Y - Z
l
V - W - M - X
l l
K C

Would someone please help me to understand this relative ordering. Thank You.

joy.pyles

The computer made an error in printing.

V
I
K

and

X
I
C

And for the first question.

Q - R - P - L
I
G - F

joy.pyles

The computer messed up again.

For the first question, the branch should be

P
I
G

inactive

What PT, Section# and Question# is this?

MrSamIam

We can help you out a lot better if you post the information that @"Dillon A. Wright" requested.
For:
P
I
G
P can be first, G can be last. "I" can be neither first nor last.

Q - R - P - L
I (What's this?)
G - F

Q and G can be first. L and F can be last. R and P can neither be first nor last. (Also, you must leave at least 3 space from the earliest slot for the variables that come before L, and 3 from the latest for the variables that come after Q).

This is all assuming that you're ordering the variables from left (earliest) to right (latest) and top (earliest) to bottom (latest).

joy.pyles

It's not from a preptest. I was trying to get a general understanding of relative ordering tree branch. It is similar to an example in the Blueprint Study Guide. I was confused. The relative ordering (tree diagram) looks like questions can come (start) from any direction as if L was first what must or could be true or false about the other letters R,P,Q, G and F. Likewise if F is considered chosen first. Would L or Q be last; and for more fun, Pick R, P or G for a scenario. What happens with L, Q and/or F which direction does one proceed ?

Sorry for any typos. There's no i. Just trying to make or show a connection with letters top to bottom. I am trying to understand the concept for the "sock-it-to-me" questions. Thanks again. The above was very helpful. With more complex tree diagrams it gets complicated, confusing and approach organization is necessary to prevent chaos and wrong answers. If you have any more wonderful suggestions please do not hesitate to help a fellow poor "LSATer" out. I'm struggling here. Sometimes I feel like taking the test and closing my eyes and pick one. A, A, A, A, straight down the test, but I know I can do better. This test is my opportunity. Studying hard and studying the wrong way with stress does not accomplish the desired high LSAT score for entrance to my desired first choice Law School. The LSAT is no joke and no laughing matter. Skills, concepts and practice efficiently.

Cant Get Right

I’d like to help out, but I’m struggling to understand your diagram. Try this format:

A - B - C - D
- E

Where:
A precedes B and E
B precedes C
C precedes D

runiggyrun

In your example
Q--R--P--L
l
G---F

I'm gathering that the "character" between Q and G is meant to represent some kind of connection between Q and G? But unless the game allows for equality (Q at the same time as G), I'm not sure what kind of connection it would be.
There are three ways I can envision the tree looking:
1.
Q--R--P--L
\
G--F
(at least the way it looks on my computer) would signify Q before R before P before L AND Q before G before F
2.
Q--R--P--L
/
G--F
Would be Q before R before P before L AND G before F; Additionally, G before Q.

3.
Q--R--P--L

G--F
Would be Q before R before P before L And G before F; No relationship between the two rows

I realize this may look a mess and very different on a different browser. I'm not sure how you do a tree on more than one line....

In none of these scenarios F or L can be first (at least not in a typical left-to-right notation that most people use where first is on the left and last is on the right.
Q and G are the only ones that can be first in the third case; G is the only one that can be first in the second case. Q is the only one that can be first in the first case.
L and F are the only ones that can be last (in all cases).

Does any of the three notations look like the example you're trying to figure out?

joy.pyles

Thanks. I'm struggling to understand relative ordering. From your format: #1. Can E be selected first and precede B and A. If so what happens to C - D, or A; if the order or ranking is (E, B, A) or (E, B, C, D). I'm confused. Looks like somebody or something can get (omitted) for a possible wrong answer. Also, #2. Can D be selected first to precede E for a direction where C precede B and E follows next. Question #3. What about A. If D is first what's the order. Maybe, I'm complicating this, but if D is first what happens to A or E. If B precedes A and E, which is last, A or E, and do the test makers include a clue to define excluded letter(s). The story gets worse with multiple branches dangling off the sides and in the middle; as per who or what is first, last, which direction to travel and position fit (in/out) of the group, (individual) chain ranking, order, assignment or sequence. If B precedes E and in a scenario where other letters enter the party after E, say X and Q, Z or Y, which ways can the squirrel travel up, down or around the tree in order to get the nut and score the point at the end of the branch. Who is first, last, ranked high to low or vice versa, or can be possibly omitted. Thanks for your help. Signed - mixed up, lost and confused.

joy.pyles

Yes, Thank you. The computer re-formats whatever I type. For the other question at the top, the notation should be (hopefully):

Y--Z
\
V--W--M--X
/
K

X
\
C
The computer would not connect C to X


This is helpful. I was confused and under the impression to go in any direction with starting point could range anywhere on the diagram ----> , <---- , up or down and getting confused especially with forks and (multiple forks) in the road; high being low and right going left. Focusing on "character" W, who's first, last and what is the seat assignment. Also, are there any natural (given) limits or restrictions to these problems. What about overall inferences, deductions, and formal logic, (sufficient/necessary) conditionals or contrapositive. Thanks

runiggyrun

Yeah, this would be a lot easier to explain with a whiteboard....
Generally, we notate left to right (with the exception of say, problems with "floors" or "shelves" where it might be more intuitive to notate bottom to top.
Because of the way we'd write on a number line, 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on, it makes sense that when you write:
A--B--C--D you mean A before B before C before D (so A can be 1, B can be 2, C can be 3 and D can be 4).
So, however you arrange your number line (1 is most expensive and 4 is least expensive, 1 is tallest 4 is shortest, 1 is smallest 4 is biggest and so on), you make sure that the "tree" follows the same direction. In most cases it's intuitive, but not always.
Example:
if 1 is shortest and 4 is tallest, then
A--B--C--D means D taller than C taller than B taller than A OR A shorter than B shorter than C shorter than D

If 1 is tallest and 4 is shortest, then
A--B--C--D means exactly the opposite, D shorter than C shorter than B shorter than A OR A taller than B taller than C taller than D.

Just make sure you notate consistently between the tree and the diagram in these trickier problems.

As far as "reading" your tree, the best trick to remember is that you can only infer relationships between things that are connected WITHOUT a change of direction.

A--B--C--D
\
E--F

You can't say anything about the relationship between F and D, because you can't get from F to D without changing direction (go back from F to E to A, forward from A to B to C to D). So, F can be either before or after D (unless there's another rule that prevents that).
But you can say that F is after A, because you can go just backwards from F to E to A, all in one direction.

I think you'd benefit greatly from the Starter package, JY does a great job explaining these things, but if you can't afford that, look up his free explanations to a few of the relative ordering games - it's a lot easier for it to "click" if you see it in action (and JY has a whiteboard :-)

joy.pyles

Thanks. This was a big help...!!!! I was totally getting confused the more I studied. Left - right, top to bottom and vice versa, first being last and last being first, tree branches of who/what (character) is actually connected, (before/after) or just dangling off to the side. Thank you very much.