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June 2016 Advice

emilycyoung1emilycyoung1 Free Trial Member
in General 234 karma
I am currently studying for the June 2016 LSAT and have been studying for 3 months. I desperately want a 170 on the LSAT but the last practice test I took I got a 162 missing roughly 4-6 questions per section. Is it possible to increase my score by 8 points in the next 24 days if I aim for 6-8 hours a day 4-5 days a week? And at least 1 hour every day? My practice tests have steadily increased beginning at a 149 then going from that to: 150, 152, 154, 154, 156, 162.

Comments

  • amipp_93amipp_93 Alum Member
    585 karma
    From a 162 to a 170 is almost a 10 point increase. Not trying to be pessimistic but thats...unrealistic. Aim for sept and maybe even Dec. 3 months of studying is nothing in comparison to some of us who have been at it for a year and more. If you're missing 4-6 questions per section theres some work to do in identifying those weaknesses. Plus work like hell to get that LG score to -0- to -2 max. You wanna consistently see a 170, ~5x and more before taking the actual administration. If I were you, Id postpone.
  • jennilynn89jennilynn89 Alum Member
    822 karma
    Hi Emily,

    I'm going to have to agree with @amipp170 . I think you are doing yourself a disservice by not giving yourself enough valuable time to reach your goal score. If I were you, I'd delay your test date to September and give it hell! For most people 3 months is not enough time to reach their true potential. A lot of people (including myself) study a year or more before they reach their goal score, but everyone works differently.
    You'll still be early enough in the cycle with a September take, if that is something you are concerned about.
  • emilycyoung1emilycyoung1 Free Trial Member
    234 karma
    Would it be bad to still take the June one and if I dont get what I want take the September one? I am already registered.
  • emilycyoung1emilycyoung1 Free Trial Member
    234 karma
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27900 karma
    Unfortunately the answer is, unequivocally, no. You can't close that gap between now and test day. No way to soften that. I only wish someone had given be the hard truth before I wasted my first take. I'd do anything to have it back. Okay, may not anything but I'd go to extreme lengths is the point, and you have the opportunity to avoid that. If you're serious about scoring in the 170s, you simply have to withdraw. The good news is that a 162 is actually pretty good for only three months of studying. I'm going on a year in my studies and not taking until September. The 160s plateau is one of the most challenging things to break upwards from in studying for this test. If it took you three months to get there, I'd say six months minimum for the average student to break into the 170s with any consistency. And that's probably optimistic. I'd also highly recommend joining 7Sage. It made the difference for me in breaking through the 160s. My last official LSAT score was a 162 and after joining 7Sage and working through the curriculum, I am averaging 174 on my practice tests. It's a powerful curriculum and a great community of people. All the best!
  • emilycyoung1emilycyoung1 Free Trial Member
    234 karma
    I am already registered for the LSAT do you not think it would be beneficial to take the June one and use it as sort of a practice?
  • emilycyoung1emilycyoung1 Free Trial Member
    234 karma
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27900 karma
    @emilycyoung1 Definitely not. That was exactly my thinking too, but there is nothing that happens on test day that shouldn’t have already been happening during your PTs. There is simply no beneficial experience to be gained. You seem to be in a very similar dilemma as I was. I’m guessing somewhere in the back of your mind you’re thinking there’s a chance the stars will align and the test will play exclusively to your strengths, completely away from your weaknesses, and you’ll break through and can be done with it. Right? That was certainly what I had in my head, and I used the “good practice” reasoning to justify it. Well, not going to happen, absolutely zero chance. People often think the first take can be used as a throw away, or a gamble, that it’s okay if they fall short. I get it, you’ve got two more attempts right? Well, if you’re thinking of the first take as a practice, then you’re not thinking of it as the real thing. The ideas are mutually exclusive. So what you’re saying is you’re going to limit yourself to two “real” takes. Well, what if you need 3 real takes? You’re denying yourself that opportunity so there better be a really strong advantage gained for the sacrifice. And there just isn’t.
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    edited May 2016 27900 karma



    Listen to Yoda when he says “You and I got what it takes to make it. . . All we need is just a little patience.”
    Yoda would never lie to you.
  • amipp_93amipp_93 Alum Member
    585 karma
    @"Cant Get Right" spits hella truth! I went from wanting to take it last oct, to last dec to this june and I'm still hesitant about june despite the world forcing me to take it. its not their journey, its yours. shoot the arrow when you're 99% confident it'll land on the 170 mark. anything below that is futile my friend. law school aint sinking over night.
  • jennilynn89jennilynn89 Alum Member
    822 karma
    Emily,

    I would have to 100% agree with @"Cant Get Right" I would not recommend it. Trust me, you don't want to waste a take. You only get three. I took the LSAT in December last year, and only took it because I pressured myself into taking it and because I had already paid for it (and thought that I could increase my score by then), and I truly regret it. I was not ready and got a horrible score. You don't want that.
    Cancel your take and re-register for September once they open registration on LSAC (if you feel sufficiently ready by then).
    I don't know what the policies are on getting part of your money back, so check with LSAC on that, it might still be early enough.
    If you feel as if you've already paid for it, and you're not getting your money back, you could take the test and cancel your score afterwards, just to gain the experience. But still, I would urge you to delay.
  • BruiserWoodsBruiserWoods Member Inactive ⭐
    1706 karma
    In short, you will not make a 170 if you take it in June. MAAYYYYYbe 165. If you want a 170, then you should postpone. (see what i did there)
  • Nanchito-1-1Nanchito-1-1 Alum Member
    1762 karma
    @emilycyoung1 If you have certain high expectations taking that risk will be be more of a reality check than a practice. I wouldn't do it unless you're ok with the score you're averaging in the past 5 pts you took in strict timed conditions give or take a few points.
  • zurajanaizurajanai Member
    51 karma
    @emilycyoung1 For normal circumstances, it won't be possible to break the 170s curve in your situation and the advices above are all reasonable and valid. But if you dedicate 6-8 hrs per day as you mentioned, you can possibly do it. By studying 6-8 hrs per day faithfully and believing in yourself, you can get a good momentum that can break the curve. And why just aim for 170? Aim for 180 so that at least when that plan fails, you will land at the 170s!
  • D1234567D1234567 Member
    16 karma
    Jumping on this wagon of whether or not take the June exam - already registered too. But, I have been struggling to break the 160 mark - seem to be consistently around 154. Any advice on how to break the 160 - and then of course the 170? After reading everyone's advice above, I think I'll be postponing my June LSAT as well... :'(
  • Nicole HopkinsNicole Hopkins Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    4344 karma
    @nanchito said:
    If you have certain high expectations taking that risk will be be more of a reality check than a practice.
    Well put.
  • Nicole HopkinsNicole Hopkins Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    4344 karma
    @D1234567 said:
    But, I have been struggling to break the 160 mark - seem to be consistently around 154. Any advice on how to break the 160 - and then of course the 170?
    Time. BR. Excellent habits. Rinse. Lather. Repeat. You can't brute force your way into the 97.5th+ percentile.
  • kazrahkazrah Alum Member
    edited May 2016 158 karma
    Ok I'm going to offer a different point of view than the ones already posted.

    I'm in the same boat as you; aiming for a 170, and taking the June test. I signed up for the 7sage starter a month and a half ago and my goal was to score 170+ consistently on the PT's by test date.

    I took the starting PT and scored in the lower 160's.

    After going through this course for about a month (about 2-3 hours every other day, sneaking some hours in at work too when there aren't tasks), I just finished the starter course yesterday and took PT36 today, scoring exactly a 170 and a 171 after BR (going to be spending the next 3 weeks days solidifying this to make sure I actually score this on test day of course). I've worked with a lot of materials and books before the 7sage course, and all I can say is that I was blown away by how much I improved. So improving by that amount is definitely *possible* in a focused month. Whether it's *do-able* comes down to you and how much you can dedicate yourself, and whether you can work with a serious time constraint. Personally, I am someone who does much better with impending deadlines, but if that's not you then you definitely don't want to take that June test.

    Now, the other posters have your best interests in mind; it's going to be hard to improve by that much, especially once you're in the 160's. The *only* (necessary sufficient condition lol) reason I'm telling you it's possible is because you mention that you will study 6+ hrs a day. I believe that your goal is attainable, but *only* if you actually put in that much effort. If you know you can't, your necessary condition fails and you should postpone your test.
  • Nicole HopkinsNicole Hopkins Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    edited May 2016 4344 karma
    @kazrah said:
    The *only* (necessary condition lol)
    "The only" is actually a sufficiency indicator :D

    https://7sage.com/lesson/clarification-for-the-only/
  • kazrahkazrah Alum Member
    158 karma
    Oops xD

    Used it right but labeled it wrong, good catch!

  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27900 karma
    @D1234567 said:
    After reading everyone's advice above, I think I'll be postponing my June LSAT as well... :'(
    Yeah, to be fair, it does suck. But really, what is it you want? June or your target score? You don’t care about June.
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    edited May 2016 27900 karma
    @"Nicole Hopkins" said:
    Time. BR. Excellent habits. Rinse. Lather. Repeat. You can't brute force your way into the 97.5th+ percentile.
    This is the correct answer.

    It’s like Axl Rose said: “If you end your training now — if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did — you will become an agent of evil.” Well, an agent of a poor LSAT score anyway.
  • emilycyoung1emilycyoung1 Free Trial Member
    234 karma
    @"Cant Get Right" I postponed my test until September but need further advice. I steadily increased in my score for the first 9 or so practice tests and made it all the way up to a 162. Now my last three scores respectively have been 156, 153, 153..... I dont know if its the stress or anxiety or what it is but I am now performing so much worse then before. The arguments section I usually am amazing at, and now I am getting so many wrong. Is this normal/what do I do about this??
  • runiggyrunruniggyrun Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2481 karma
    @emilycyoung1 I wouldn't say that your scores are decreasing. I would say that you are currently scoring in the 152-156 band (7 out of your last 8 tests were in this band) and that the 162 was an outlier. That's one of the reasons everyone was cautioning you against taking June - because it's impossible to tell from 3-4 PT's that you're steadily improving just based on those four scores trending upwards. Thinking "I have a 152, 154, 156, 162, so looks like I'm improving 2-3 points with each PT" is just setting you up for disappointment. You're only getting started with PT's, and in that 150-160 range it's normal for scores to fluctuate, as there are probably still a lot of gaps in your fundamentals.
    You have time - till September, or December, or whenever it is that you'll be ready. Take that time to really nail the fundamentals, and squeeze every last bit of learning from each PT and especially BR. At this stage, focusing on the score rather than the learning is only going to be detrimental, and you'll go from highs "Yay, a 165, 170 is next " to lows "Oh, no a 156 - I'll never make it". Just concentrate on the learning, and get your highs from "catching" an attractive trap answer, solving a game of a type you've never been able so solve before, getting through all the passages in time, and other small victories that are a measure of how far you've come in your learning, rather than your score.
    The score will come.
  • runiggyrunruniggyrun Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2481 karma
    @kazrah said:
    I took the starting PT and scored in the lower 160's.

    After going through this course for about a month (about 2-3 hours every other day, sneaking some hours in at work too when there aren't tasks), I just finished the starter course yesterday and took PT36 today, scoring exactly a 170 and a 171 after BR (going to be spending the next 3 weeks days solidifying this to make sure I actually score this on test day of course). I've worked with a lot of materials and books before the 7sage course, and all I can say is that I was blown away by how much I improved.
    Congratulations on your improvement! Keep going toward that 180!
    I would say that a low 160's diagnostic makes you close to what people around here call "a unicorn" - someone whose natural strengths play very well into the test. It's very possible under those circumstances to improve from low 160's to 170 just by figuring out a few "tricks" - like the fact that games have "types" and you should use diagrams for them, or how to spot the difference between a SA and a NA.
    I would venture a guess that the same level of improvement in a short time span is a lot harder for someone who got into the low 160's AFTER going through the curriculum. They don't have any of that low hanging fruit to pick to push their score another 8-10 points higher. It's still doable, but after the initial improvement those points are going to take a lot of elbow grease.
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    edited May 2016 27900 karma
    @emilycyoung1 I don't think this is abnormal at all. Backsliding is a part of the process. Good call on holding off though.

    So, really, all LSAT advice can boil down to the same thing: master the underlying logic upon which the test is built. Running out of time? Missing all the curve breakers? Suck at in/out games? The solution is the same. So here's how I'd suggest continuing towards that goal.

    First, how's your BR score? Your BR really sets kind of a limit on your potential. If you miss something with unlimited time, you're just not going to get it under the clock. Almost everyone can benefit from better BR practices. Make sure you're not cutting any corners. So, don't score your PT until after finishing BR, BR on a clean copy of the test, and write out your entire thought process for each question you review: break down the stimulus, ID the question type, break down each answer choice IDing why the right answer is right and why each wrong answer is wrong. Start with that.

    You also need to figure out more specifically what's happening. Why are you slipping? Maybe you're stressed out and need to take a break. Maybe you went -10 on LG. Maybe you missed every single NA question they threw at you. Go back through your PTs and see what the patterns are. Even more importantly, go back through your BRs and tag anything you miss there. Anything you miss in BR becomes high priority, especially if patterns emerge. After you've done that, go back to the lessons and reinforce your weak spots. Depending on your target score, you may want to stop PTing until you've adequately done this.

    Hope this helps get you started!
  • emilycyoung1emilycyoung1 Free Trial Member
    234 karma
    I actually dont know what BR is, could you explain this to me? @"Cant Get Right"
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27900 karma
    Sounds like we've got a lot in common from before I joined 7Sage @emilycyoung1 ! You're using Powerscore right? I think I read that in another thread. I used it before too and I plateaued right at about where you're at. I also found my way into these forums via the LG videos, and kept seeing "BR" with no idea what it meant. I even googled "What is BR" lol, but I don't remember if it turned anything up. If it did, I still didn't understand what it meant.

    Anyway, first, stop taking practice tests. You're wasting them. I wasted a lot too. The good news is that if you're not BRing (which stands for Blind Review, btw) then you're wasting them to the extent that they'll still be totally usable later. That was my experience anyway. So here's how you Blind Review: as you work through your PT, circle any questions you have not answered with 100% confidence. If you're just not sure what the stimulus was saying, or if you couldn't eliminate an answer choice, or if you could eliminate four answer choices but you still have no idea why the last remaining answer choice is correct, whatever it is; circle it. After you finish the PT, don't grade it. Don't look at the answers. Take a clean copy of the test and go through it and circle the questions you circled in your initial take. Do not transfer your answers or any other information. Then, give yourself unlimited time to work through all of your circled questions on your clean test. Give it as much time as you need, and try to get to 100% confidence. Once you're done, then you can grade it. And that's Blind Review.
  • emilycyoung1emilycyoung1 Free Trial Member
    234 karma
    @"Cant Get Right" Ok so can I go back over my old PT's and do that/how? When you say you joined 7Sage, do you mean you paid for tutoring or something? Or you just looked at videos and participated in discussion? I am trying to get to 170 or above and I think I can do that with 4 months so I appreciate your advice in moving my test date, I think that was a good decision. Sorry for all the questions youve been very helpful. Also, have you found the older PT's helpful to take as in pre-2007? I have done the June 2007 and then PT's 62-70. I have the book for Pt's 52-61 then practice tests 75,76,77 and am ordering 72-74. I just wonder if its beneficial to get the older ones too or just stick with the ones I have ?
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27900 karma
    The older ones are definitely useful. So on 7Sage, what we do is use 1-36 for drills. It sacrifices them as PTs but just got to have some material to start with. The test does evolve over time, but the underlying logic does not, so every test is extremely valuable. If you want to break into the 170s, you're going to need everything at your disposal, so go ahead and get everything. Unfortunately, the PDFs are no longer available. Well, no longer available for purchase anyway. Buying the PDFs would have been the way to go, if they were available to purchase. Having the PDFs represents an enormous advantage because the easy access to study material is such an essential part of studying for the LSAT. So since you can't buy the PDFs anymore, you'll just need to acquire the material through whatever means remain. Amazon is just one of many online sources.

    Anyway..

    So you don't really want to BR PTs you took more than a few days ago. It needs to be fresh. You can still retake them though without much value lost. Without proper review, those tests still have tons of value. Just mix in your retakes with fresh takes and understand that your scores might be slightly inflated. The score doesn't matter anyway, so even that is not a real liability of a retake.

    So when I said I joined 7Sage, I signed up to gain access to the curriculum and data analysis and everything. I went with the Ultimate+ package, but even the Starter would have been a huge difference in my studying. I seem to be pitching 7Sage a lot these days, so I'll try to keep it short, lol. I really do feel like I wouldn't have broken the 160's plateau without it. I had studied using PS for a little under a year and I still couldn't break it. After scoring 162 on my second attempt in December 2015 I kind of just quit for awhile. When I came back I just wanted to start over. I went through the 7Sage curriculum and took my time to feel like I'd mastered each concept. (I also began studying with increased discipline and better habits.) My PT average now is 175 timed and like 179.5+ BR.

    You can definitely break into the 170s. Anyone can. Just understand that you've hit a plateau that is incredibly difficult to break. Most people never break it. It comes down to discipline, work ethic, good habits, and unwavering determination. I've never worked so hard for anything in my life. I had to change my life, change who I was, to get where I am. The person I was could never have done it. I had to become a better version of myself. I know that maybe sounds overly philosophical, but it's just the truth of my LSAT journey. Anyway, the point is, it's incredibly difficult, yet totally possible, to break into the 170s. The LSAT gets exponentially harder. Expect your progress to slow. Every point is harder than the last. It is so much harder to break out of the 160s than it is to break in. I don't mean to be discouraging. You've just got to know what you're up against if you're going to conquer it. Whatever you've done to get to where you're at, it will take a ten-fold increase in effort and effectiveness to get from there to 170+. And you can totally do it.
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