Not seeing much improvement in Logic Games, after spending many hours on them.

Comments

• tanes256 Alum Member

  May 2016 2573 karma

  @maxim954 Well what exactly are you having issues with? Are you not setting up the boards properly? Misreading questions? Not diagramming properly? It's good that you're remembering the inferences but you've got to know the type of game, how to set up your board and how to properly diagram first. So you're hitting the target time when you complete the games? There could be several issues going on here. You've got to pinpoint what's not coming together for you. Are you using the foolproof method? I would start with a section from a PT and go from there. Don't move on until you've completed the foolproof method for all four games. Also, unless you have completed the curriculum I wouldn't stop working on the other sections of the test. You can continue with RC and LR just put aside time each day for games. You are right to push your test date but I would suggest not registering again until you know you are ready. Don't register for a date and try to make yourself be ready for that date. That's throwing away too much money and it'll cause you unnecessary stress trying to make yourself be ready just because you've already paid for it.
• ozboy Free Trial Member

  May 2016 77 karma

  @maxim954 are you at the stage when you start working on a new game, you relate to previous games inferences? If not, then foolproof more. You will reach to a point when what I have just described happens.
  
  Same inferences keep occurring over and over with different game boards and different scenarios.
• m.e.u_89 Member

  May 2016 38 karma

  Thank you for the replies.
  
  @tanes256 I think it's a combination of not knowing which game board comes into play and misreading questions. Misreading questions happens A LOT. For some reason, when I'm initially faced with a game, I end up taking in the information in ways the writers I'm sure didn't intend. It gets interpreted in a more open-ended way, which obviously shouldn't happen. I can do some of the basic games, but as soon as more layers and complexities come into the picture, I become stuck on how to visually represent it properly. Plus, I do my deductions pretty slowly. So, the usual scenario is that I get frustrated and skip to the 1 or 2 easy questions on a game set and guess on the others.
  
  I am doing the fool-proof method as in going over the logic games that challenged me and redoing them until I get all the answers correct under the right amount of time. After that, I move on to another one. The process so far has been very time-consuming, and apparently not effective because it's like almost every new game I attempt seems to introduce new elements as far as the game board is concerned, even though they may be of the same game type (sometimes this is due to misunderstanding questions, but there has been times when it was simply due to a lot of unfamiliar information being introduced that doesn't seem to uniformly translate to game board set ups I've seen before).
  
  @ozboy You may be right, and I simply just need to keep doing the fool-proof method, 'cause it's just not clicking most of the time. I guess just keep doing even the ones I've "mastered"- reviewed until I got all the questions right and under a good amount of time. I wish it wasn't so much of a time-sink, but if that's the way to actually improve...
  
  Given that this is all very time-consuming, delaying my test for later seems certain. I think maybe withdrawing my registration all together is a good idea too, I don't want to commit the same mistake and underestimate just how much time I may actually need to prepare in order to perform optimally. After all, I've only gone over a little over a quarter of the core curriculum at this point, so I've got a while to go actually.
• 3 Likes

  Matthew524 Member

  May 2016 edited May 2016 651 karma

  Hey @maxim954 I faced the same problem when I started studying logic games, I was only finishing the first game and half of the second (really really horrible). What I started to do is stop timing myself for the games. I would try to figure out what game board to use and how to set it up, what are my game pieces and if there were any inferences that may be made ( quick tip: usually the first question of the game gives you an idea of how to set up your game board i.e sequence, in-out, grouping). The most important thing is to stop panicking, it will do you no good. After I get the basic set up of the game I answer all the questions to my pace. Then after I have an understanding of the game I start timing myself. Its ok if you go above the time, you have to learn how to conquer the basic stuff then time won't be an issue. I would do each logic game about 5-8 times depending on how difficult it was to me. I wouldn't do it one after another, I would take a couple of days in between so memory wont have a big influence on the answers I choose. By doing this you are setting yourself up to see inferences and how these inferences may be applied to other games.
• 1 Like

  m.e.u_89 Member

  May 2016 38 karma

  Thanks @Matthew524, that sounds like really good advice, kinda felt a lightbulb go over my head lol giving myself the time to not do them one after the other so that I don't do it by rote seems like it could be really helpful too. I probably just need to focus on really absorbing what about the question triggers a certain game board and build more familiarity with it. My concern for timing seems to really impede my organically figuring it out. I have to master the fundamentals before I can worry about time restrictions... Thanks again.
• 1 Like

  runiggyrun Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  May 2016 2481 karma

  Hi @maxim954 - Games are tough, no doubt, and I am starting to believe that there's a subset of people for whom they are naturally tougher to master than for others (I'm sure that's true with every section).
  When you say you've studied for a long time, how long is that? And how many games would you say you have you done >6 times (for most people that would constitute "foolproofed")?
  Sometimes it takes a long time (>3 months) and a lot of games (>100) to reach that AHA moment when things start to click.
  Try focusing on "perfect form" rather than time for now (still time yourself to keep track of progress, but use a stopwatch rather than a timer and take as much as you need).
  Make sure you go through all the steps properly, especially the setup ones:
  Figure out type of game/basic board
  Read first rule
  Write down first rule and contrapositive if needed (you will reach a point where you don't need to do that anymore, as they become second nature)
  Check that written down rule matches game rule; Whenever possible, write rules on the board (Like if N is 7th, put an N on the 7th spot of your game board)
  Cross-off items that are firmly placed on the board.
  Repeat for all rules.
  Check for rules that link up (either as given or as contrapositives).
  Check for free-floaters and circle them.
  Take a minute to think how rules might go together, whether it would be good to split the boards, etc.
  CHECK RULES AGAIN. CHECK split boards against the rules as well.
  
  Proceed to questions.
  
  I know this sounds like a lot, but you want the good habits to be ingrained in your memory so you don't even have to think about them (doesn't take a ton of extra time to check your rules twice- maybe 20-30 extra seconds per game, and a single mistake on a single game will cost you a lot more than those 2 extra minutes).
  
  Keep practicing the games in a rotation, even the ones you "get". The point of this is to accumulate knowledge and mastery in layers - once you've done 6 grouping games for example, you'll notice new things when redoing the first grouping game you've ever done. If you don't go back, you'll miss capitalizing on those revelations.
  
  Whatever you do, don't just "go through the motions", but think about the how's and the why's and the general things that you see over and over.
  Best of luck!
  
  
  
  
• Cant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor

  May 2016 27899 karma

  What @Matthew524 and @runiggyrun said. Do that.
• 1 Like

  dreamville Member

  May 2016 99 karma

  Some great advice given here already. I'll just add that LG is not my forte either. I'm done with CC and in the middle of full proofing. One thing that has helped me is temporarily taking away the time factor until you notice things becoming more intuitive for you.
  
  Since certain elements of LG likely have not clicked or meshed yet, making this adjustment will allow you to focus on honing skills more. It's usually said that finishing LG accurately and under time is a byproduct of skill-set anyway. While you do this, you can still keep time so you know where you stand.
• 1 Like

  hlsat180 Free Trial Member

  May 2016 362 karma

  @maxim954 to tag on the above advice, have you considered drilling one type of game at a time? Start with mastering the basic one layer sequencing game, then move on to mastering a more complex type, and so on. Start mixed sections only after you are comfortable with each type.
  
  This progression will help (a) reinforce the basics, (b) isolate problems to fix, and (3) recognize different game types. Hope this helps.
• 1 Like

  emilycyoung1 Free Trial Member

  May 2016 234 karma

  @maxim954 you have to spend a proper amount of time figuring out the best game set up, this will allow you make inferences and make the questions super easy. Ideally in a logic game, you will spend enough time diagramming the rules and making inferences that when you get the questions, you fly through them because the answers are either in your original diagram, or you create a small diagram with the new rule introduced and it all comes together as you fill in the set up. My biggest mistake for a while was disregarding set up and diagramming and just going straight to the rules. Once you figure out diagramming the questions are easy, if you dont have the right diagram or inferences, the games are practically impossible. My advice therefore would be to focus on diagramming. For me, grouping games are more difficult then linear or sequencing games, this tends to be the case for many people. For grouping games, I learned the In/Out method and that helped A TON. It made it so much easier for me to complete the questions and visually it made more sense. For logic games, once you have read over the book you chose to teach you methods ( I WILL ALWAYS RECOMMEND POWERSCORE LOGIC GAMES BIBLE IT IS BY FAR THE BEST AND TRULY SAVED ME ON LOGIC GAMES) you just keep practicing, and when you do a game, go over it even if you get questions right to see if you missed any inferences. The 7Sage videos on logic games explanations are LITERALLY THE BEST. So look at those too. One last thing.... remain positive, I promise you I have been there with logic games, they are hard but once they click they are almost fun. If you look at them as fun you will do better (trust me on that one)