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Not sure if it's worth it to take another year off to keep studying.
Marco Antonio
Alum Member
Hey everyone. So I graduated college in May. I started out with a 144 for my diagnostic. Since then my highest PT has been a 162 and I've been studying full-time. I am very proud of my progress thus far. My goal is to get accepted to USC, UCLA, Georgetown, or Berkeley. My GPA is a 3.57. In order to do this I will have to get at least a 166 to even be considered. I feel like I will not be ready by December despite the fact that I am studying full-time. A moment of vulnerability here; I feel like crap being where I am. I am studying full-time in my parents house trying to stick to an 7 hour daily study schedule while I watch all my friends go off to medical school or law school or get great jobs. My girlfriend of 3 years just got into Stanford and I'm not even sure if I will be able to take a test by the deadline I set for myself, namely December. I feel like a disappointment to myself and it's so painful to feel so close to my goal and so far at the same time. I feel like I should take the test in June and get a full-time job or something in the meanwhile. I feel like the only people who might give me advice on this would give me bad advice, so I am asking the forum. The way I think about it is the following: I'd rather study longer and get a score that's good enough to get me into a good school possibly with money, than I getting into a worse school with no money. Where do you all stand on this? I feel like the 7sage mantra is take as much time as you need to get where you want to go, but I just don't know what to do. I want to thank everyone who took the time to read and respond to this in advance.
Comments
I think continuing to study is the right call. I know it may feel painful now, but it's just going to absolutely be worth it in the long run.
You'd work hard for $300,000, right? Doing well on the LSAT is likely worth at least as much. Consider that a higher LSAT score gets you into a better school, which leads to a higher salary. Let's say it adds $10,000 per year. Stretch that over 30 years, and you have $300,000.
I'm fudging the math a bit due to interest rates, but that's a very conservative salary increase estimate. Likewise, a higher score can get you tens of thousands of dollars in scholarships. If you're at all motivated by money, there is NOTHING more profitable that you could be doing than to continue studying for the LSAT. Just pretend someone is paying you $250 an hour to study.
And of course, there are all the hopes and dreams you have attached to law school and being a lawyer. You NEED a good LSAT score to fulfill those. And those are literally priceless.
If you're interested in taking the test in June, there's a study group that I've organized that will begin going over PTs in the next month or so. Check it out: https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/12869/june-2018-study-group
@"Alex Divine" FACTSSSS. Thanks for being one of the primary people on this forum reinforcing the importance of this test.
How long have you been studying? How many prep tests have you taken? I started studying in the spring semester of my junior year (2016). I studied more intensely while working full-time in the summer and took the test in June of 2016. I didn't get the score I wanted so I took it again in September 2016 and did worse. I felt like how you're feeling. I took a few months off, then took 37 practice tests between February 2017 and the September 2017 test (33 over the summer).
The time off feels like it has been worth it. I don't have my September 2017 score yet, but I was PTing ~ 8 points higher than my score from the year before. Plus, the time off makes you want to go back to school.
Make sure you don't burn yourself out with studying. Since I had technically been studying for about 18 months, I took a week off twice over the summer, and definitely didn't do seven hours a day down the stretch.
Also, how old are you? If December doesn't work, get a part-time job and take a breather from practicing. There are six test administrations in 2018 so you could start aiming for one or two of those.
I could have gone somewhere with my score last year, but I'm glad I took the time to have a shot at somewhere I actually want to be. Play the long game. That said, I don't think it will hurt to plan on taking it in December.
You just answered your own question homie -- You'd rather study longer and get a good score -- so do it. Don't compare yourself to your friends, you'll get there on your own time. Everyone's journey is different. You have a great opportunity in that your parent's are supporting you while you study, take advantage of it and get into that dream school. Make like a horse and put those blinders on until you've finished your race. You're only FOUR points away. Don't give up now.
Hey OP! Firstly, sitting it out this cycle and taking an extra year isn't going to matter much in the grand scheme of things. You're aiming to set up a a career for life - the more time you (wisely) invest in ensuring that you present a competitive application now, the better chance you have of getting into a higher ranked school and therefore ensuring that the years ahead of you are stable - at least in some respects (or so, one would hope). Secondly, people take things at their own pace - and you should too. The median age for law school, as you probably know, is around 24/25. The cohort is typically a mature one with some work experience and/or graduate school experience behind them. A year off is an opportunity for you to gain and/or solidify existing skill sets that might be beneficial to you once you step into the legal industry. Finally, and I've heard LSAT tutors often say this, people rarely complain about spending more time than 'conventionally' required on studying for the LSAT. In fact, it's usually the opposite scenario. Your GPA is relatively competitive for schools outside of HYS, and if you spend adequate time aiming to secure a strong score, it might open up doors for you that you might not even be cognizant of right now.
I am literally in the same spot. You're not alone in this. @tringo335 is exactly right when she said that you are on your own journey. One of my biggest obstacles was accepting that my timeline is different than everyone else's, even though so many of my friends are out there getting big boy jobs or going to law school soon.
Don't be discouraged and DO NOT let anyone talk you out of your dream just because your "a bit behind" compared to some of your peers.
Yeah it sounds sexy and awesome to go straight from undergrad to law school, but what you don't hear a lot of times are the cases like you, me and others on here where we need a bit more time. Its nothing to be ashamed of. Accept where you are at the moment and know that you're on your way, maybe not at the speed you had hoped for, but you will achieve your goal in three end.
While I agree with the general sentiment of the advice given thus far, I wonder about the underlying assumption that you cannot move from 162 to 167 studying full-time in the almost two months you have left. What is the reason for this, especially if you're already well into studying (and have familiarity with the test)?
Also, there are general life considerations that merit reflection. I don't know much about your particular situation, but I do know that situations in which one partner is starting on an arduous career path and the other has not yet started--and may be down about it--can breed all sorts of stuff that I'd rather not talk about. I'd usually give "fuck it, do you" advice, since one usually thanks oneself 20 years down the line with that approach, but the consideration of a 3 year relationship cannot be dismissed that summarily. This fact, along with the fact that I refuse to make the assumption above, leads me to think that you should still aim for writing in Dec. if the score's not good enough to get into your preferred school, or to get in with the right financial situation, then you can always do another round. The only thing you lose is the amount of money you'd earn between now and then working a part-time job.
In any case, I thought it worthwhile to give you another perspective. More than luck to you!--A.c.S
First off, congrats on your improvement so far! That's a big jump!
I would say I generally agree with everyone in that making a decision primarily because you feel pressure to keep up with your peers or out of fear of being left behind is definitely not a great idea. If you truly feel comfortable with the idea of delaying a year and that is what you want (and you basically stated that you kind of want to do that anyway), then do it and don't feel bad about it!
However, I will also say, given your improvement already and depending on the areas in which you are missing the most questions, I also think it is potentially possible for you to improve before the December date and reach your desired score. Of course, I cannot know that confidently.
I think it really depends on what you ultimately want to do. If you could have it your way, would you ideally be able to attend law school next year? Or are there other factors beyond the LSAT that are nudging you to wait a year? This could be completely inaccurate, but is it possible that you are using fear of underperforming in December as an excuse for being able to take off a year to study more/work/whatever? Because even if that is the case, it is totally ok! I'm just saying to try to understand your motivations and why you may be feeling the way you are feeling. A lack of desire to attend law school immediately could be negatively affecting your study in some way, especially as you get closer to test day.
Personally, I am ALL for taking a year or even two (or in my case, three) off between undergrad and law school. I don't think I realized how much I needed it until I took it. Try to turn down the volume on all the outside opinions (and also realize that the vast majority of people, outside of maybe some family and your girlfriend, don't actually give a flip about what you do) and figure out what is the right path for you.
@"Marco Antonio"
I'm applying as a KJD so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it is almost always a better idea to take a year to study if you are at all on the fence.
The main advantage is the potential higher LSAT score opening doors to scholarships and a different set of schools.
Another advantage is that you can gain work experience, distance yourself from a less than lovely GPA, take a breather before rushing into more education, and finally apply in a less frenzied panicked manner.
Finally, you can save some money for law school.
Ordinarily, this is all at the opportunity cost of either a year working as a lawyer in the future or a year of retirement. It seems pretty easy to decide to have your choice of working one less year or having a retirement that is one year shorter in exchange for a better shot at a financially, philisophically, or emotionally rewarding job.
So why don't more people (like me) follow this advice? First of all, lots do. That said...
2.There is often a lot of pressure which we have built up to do what we have planned.
The above are bad reasons. I would like to think I have a good reason, but it might just be an excuse to cave to the above reasons. I have a relatively high LSAT score (it depends on the September test results just how high) and admissions processes are shifting quickly to take the GRE. Before these programs grow and devalue high LSAT scores, I want to apply. Of course, if your LSAT score is not where you want it to be, the logic is exatly opposite. You have even more reason to wait so you can either score higher on the LSAT or take the GRE.
Why not act and study as though you are taking in December for this cycle and then make the decision about whether to study more? Even if you get the 166 though, I would recommend studying more and retaking in June to increase scholarship amounts. The logic of retaking only changes when you are too weary of the LSAT to dedicate time to eeking out more points or when there are hardly any points left to eek out.
Good luck!
"Why not act and study as though you are taking in December for this cycle and then make the decision about whether to study more? Even if you get the 166 though, I would recommend studying more and retaking in June to increase scholarship amounts."
totally agree with this ; I'm in the same boat. studying like for Dec but open to post poning. It really really sucks having to delay but I have noticed so many people settle for mediocre law schools ; my close friend went to American and another to our state school right out of undergrad, and I know both settled. If you have the drive I would keep studying until you can reach that potential, but know that there is a limit. I think it's very easy with this exam to keep and keep and keep postponing~ sometimes you have to call it quits too.
Hi Marco - I completely understand where you are coming from. I've had to give up a lot of clients to study for this test and some good money. My plan was to take the Sept test and apply early decision by November and be done with it. Well, my plans are not working out that well.
I wasn't prepared for Sept (and expect a low, low score) and now, after being on this forum since I took the test, I have painfully realized that I need to take the test when I'm ready and not when I schedule the test. Its not easy as we see everyone around us go on with their lives - so I totally get you. BUT, I keep telling myself that in order to get into the school I want and to practice the law that I want I need to keep studying until I can reach as high I am able to. And if that means I take the test in June and not apply until next year, then that's that. I am actually hoping to take the test in February but I am ready and willing to delay until June in case I'm not ready again.
So please keep at it - try not to despair. I think testing in the 160s is fantastic and you never know... its possible you may be ready by December. You may want to consider cutting down the 7 hour study days though - I think you may be burning out. Take a little break and then cut back your hours some.
Best of luck to you and most imporant don't you give up!!!
You took the words right out of my mouth! i think the hardest part is the people around us that don't understand how hard it is to study for this exam
Sillllyxo - you are so right. This weekend I went to see family and they wanted a sample lsat question to see how hard it was, and well, they all got it right! Ugh, I felt like such an idiot saying how hard the test is. I'd like to see them take the whole test!!
my dad is the same way lol ~ i show him a PT and he was like oh it's that small EYEROLL
Hi @"Marco Antonio" I understand how you feel. I started off with a 138, studied full time all summer, and I was scoring in the 154 range by the time the June test came around. I was burnt out and I felt horrible.
I wouldn't recommend studying full time to anyone now. After I got a job, took a break, and jumped back into studying a few hours daily with the help of some great tutors, my score and my mindset towards the test has been on an upward trend. I'm delaying a year and relieving the pressure from that has been a huge help.
Having said that, you're still a while away from the December test! Maybe take a few days to recover from your bad feelings and reset and jump back into studying? If December doesn't go as well as you like, you can reevaluate?
While you're at it, you might want to read a book called "Don't Go to Law School Unless...". To me, it highlights the importance of going to the best law school you can (to reduce debt in the future etc etc).
Marco,
Not to be dramatic or anything but your post literally brought me to TEARS.
I actually burned out only 1.5 months in to my studying!!!!!!! Burning out 1.5 months into studying is so damn terrifying I can't even explain it..... But honestly it was for the best because I really had to step back and evaluate what I was doing and why I was feeling this way. I feel like I can share some insight into this situation.
Are you setting yourself up for failure by creating pressure for yourself via the outside world or are those pressures real? Even if they're real, are you exacerbating their influence by talking yourself into believing them?
You said that you feel like a disappointment to yourself... It's a hard thing to face but sometimes we're so unsure of ourselves that we "read" other people's comments, questions, conversations as if they are expectations. It's something like projecting our anxiety and then absorbing that projection from the outside, even though we created it in the first place.
You said you feel like you should get a job and take it in June (lol me too). Before you make your decision... take a mental check. Can you actually make it in December WITHOUT compromising your mental health? For example, I could probably reach my goal in December but not without seriously putting myself down, compromising my health, etc. I think you also need to figure out what's best for you as a whole person, not just in terms of your test date.
Finally you said you think that the ppl you would go to for advice would give you bad advice... ultimately you're going to take the advice that you were hoping to hear deep down. If you decide to push your test, "announce it" to your friends/family/bae as confidently as you announced your decision to go to law school. Even if you don't know why, there's a reason you came to this forum, read everyone's comments, made your decision, so whether you decide to take Dec. or push, just stick to it and be "one" with it.
I hoped this helps start the introspection process
I'm really wishing you all the best!!
Right on, brother!
I've had the honor of coming up under some very excellent mentors and Sages, and something every high scorer agrees on is that it was worth it. No matter how long it takes. If it takes me 3 years to get into Harvard and I have to start when I'm 27, so be it. I'd rather start at H at 27 than anywhere else at 25.
Hey everyone. I took a few days off studying to rethink and reorganize, but I am so touched by everyone's support. I decided that yeah; it's probably best to wait until the next cycle to start applying. I am going to look for a part-time job in the meanwhile and just grind out LSAT work until June. That should give me more than enough time to get the score I want to get, but I cannot express how thankful I am for the support. You cannot put a price on the support the 7sage community constantly gives. Thanks to all of you! I am so proud to be a part of such a supportive community!
Good luck! Looking forward to seeing a "GUYS I GOT INTO MY DREAM SCHOOL" post from you in the near future!