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Related Discussions
2 Likes
Retake?
fifthending
Alum Member
I got a 172 in September and have a 3.49 lsac gpa with a stem major. I'm applying this cycle and planning on blanketing T14. I'm trying to decide whether or not to retake in December and try to get a slightly higher score to mitigate low gpa...but I don't know if it's worth it. I wouldn't be able to complete my application until scores are released in January and I don't know if a few points increase would significantly increase my admission chances or if that's worth the later app submission. If I don't retake, I would submit all my apps by Thanksgiving. What do you guys think?
Comments
Obviously, you got an amazing score. Congrats! But I think it depends on what kind of school you went to for undergrad. If you went to a highly competitive or Ivy League school, you'll probably be fine. If you went to an average or above-average school, and you know you can get a better score, I'd retake it. My GPA is a 3.8+, but my school is very average. I would have to think that it would be worth a 3.5 from a more difficult school. I hope that makes sense.
Hey, congrats on the score! I would recommend listening to Daniel's AMA from last week where he discusses deciding to retake after scoring in the low 170s.
At this point, I think it's better to apply within the next few weeks instead of waiting until January. You don't really know that you'll do better in December, even with intense preparation - at that end of the curve, just a few mistakes can make all the difference. And you'd have to score a 175+ for it to be worth the two month delay.
With a 3.5 and a 172, that will get you into probably almost all of the bottom half of the T14, with a solid shot at all non-HYS schools. Even with a 175, you still wouldn't have a great chance at HYS, and it wouldn't significantly change your chances at the rest of the T-14.
I would think that you should retake if you justifiably believe you can get at least two points higher in four weeks time--regardless of undergrad. It's a bit uncertain about the fine-grained effects that undergrad prestige has on your chances. Of course, in general, a 3.5 at Princeton is better than a 3.5 at Illinois. However, is a 3.5 at Princeton better than a 3.65 at Illinois? Difficult say, especially because of the issue (rampant at elite institutions) of grade inflation--about which committees know full well.
In light of this difficulty, as well as the fact that you have a "low" gpa for T-14, I would think that retaking to get an even higher score might be beneficial if you have the time and money (probably even decisive in a couple cases of when deciding on your admission). However, I wouldn't stress too much if you decide not to retake. It is a great score, it's just that it might not be enough to tip the balances in some cases. Good luck!--A.c.S
I would apply now and retake it anyway. If you are looking for a 170+ retake success story, I got a 172 in February and retook in September for a 180 after 3 months of study. I'm finishing applications now and am glad that I have done everything possible to boost my chances.
The 172 should probably let you stave off rejection at almost all schools until at least January if you apply now. After that they see the retake. If it's higher, that's great and could help. If it's not, you don't lose anything since they look at the highest score. If you don't improve in December, a higher LSAT score in February can help with getting off waitlists and negotiating scholarships as well.
Lock in the gains from a relatively early application by applying as soon as you can get your applications in (with well written essays and letters of rec). After that retake it a time or two. Other than the cost of the LSAT which is a pittance next to law school tuition, you are playing with house money.
Good luck with your applications and your retake(s)!
Edit:
You might want to hold off on Harvard and Yale until after your retake(or inform them you are retaking). They might reject you before your retake with a below median GPA and LSAT. Your chances are better(though it's still Harvard and Yale son not great) once you become a splitter by getting your lsat above their median.
Do you mind if I ask how long it took you to get that score
@"Seeking Perfection" Thanks for the advice, it's amazing that you got a 180. I might just do what you said and apply asap and see where I'm at with studying come December. The thing is, I've already taken the lsat 3 times...I know schools besides Yale aren't supposed to care but I feel kind of awkward taking it a 4th or even 5th time. I've also been slacking on studying because I've been so busy with writing PS and supplemental essays. If I were to submit now, should I tell all schools to hold off on reviewing my app until December scores come out or just H/S? To be honest, I'm applying to both just for kicks, I don't have any hopes of actually getting in. NYU is my dream school.
@dantlee14 Do you really think so?? I've been so stressed out about apps that I've started to have doubts about whether I'll get into any of the T14s...
@Broccoli180 Of course - I studied for a year and went from 161 to 172 but I think it can definitely be done in a shorter period of time...I was working full time and living in a foreign country when I was studying
@fifthending Oh geez starting 161 is impressive...
The 180 was probably a little bit of a fluke. I studied all summer just trying to get to a 175 or176 or so to get to the 75th percentile at the coiple of schools where a 172 isn't quite the 75th. It turns out when you average a 176 or 177 a couple of points can shift you down to a 172 or up to a 180. I did my best which was mostly just foolproofing and PTing to make sure it was the ladder. Congrats on your own impressive increase!
I think you probably lose the early consideration bump if you ask them to wait for your retake. I would go with submitting now and only telling Harvard, Stanford, and Yale about the retake. You should examine it for yourself on law school numbers, but I think most schools will accept or waitlist you. http://mylsn.info
Assuming this is true, then you can apply to them with a best case scenario of getting in(possibly as the result of a boost from applying early) and a worst case scenario of being waitlisted pending your retake. It's only if you get rejected that the retake can't help. So at the schools which are most likely to reject you out of hand with your initial score you want them to hold off and wait for your score. The rest you want to evaluate you now(as though your application is complete) while there are spots open at your present score(in case you don’t improve).
Jeez, this makes me feel so insecure! a 172 and a 3.4 is a splitter? My odds are worse. I thought a 172 was amazing.
I think a splitter is just anyone below the 25th in GPA and above the 75th in LSAT score at some school. So there is a pretty broad range of us both in GPA and LSAT scores!
@"Seeking Perfection" that makes sense!