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Hello all,
I am currently a third year student in law and political science at the university of Lyon, France, and I am planning to go to the US or Canada for the first year of my masters degree in international law. We have access to several universities for that kind of exchange, and I thought it would be interesting to have American students give me advice on which ones are better and why. The universities I'm interested in are:
- USA: Boston university, the university of Southern California and Brooklyn law school
- Canada: McGill, Montreal, and the university of British Columbia in Vancouver.
Could you guys tell me what you think about them and which one would be better according to you, especially for someone looking to study international law?
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21 comments
Hehe! All the more reason we have to stick together and use 7Sage to help us kill the LSAT and get into the best schools we can! :)
Haha @gregoryalexanderdevine723 I know what you mean but the thought of people having to do that after earning a JD....shivers
@476.rizeq LOL! Don't be scared. I think places like TLS scare people too much, but honestly living here and working here in NYC, it isn't always that far off.... Still, there are the 2/3rds of the classes that do get legal employment from these schools, so they aren't all bad. I just personally don't like to play the ponies with those odds. If you look at big law firm's website bios plenty of students who work there went to the schools I named.
It is frightening! I mean people always justify going to these schools with anecdotes of attorneys who went 25+ years ago, or outliers who went and made it. I can't tell you how many older siblings of friends went to NY law schools like I mentioned and just .... ended up working retail, waitressing, becoming teachers, going back to school for another career. I always felt like the people who warned me were being elitist, until I realized every single person who went to these schools was warning me not to. That includes the ones who DID get a good job. This isn't for all NY law schools, just the ones in NYC.
There are some good local schools in NY if you want to work regionally. Albany Law School seems to have great employment and a monopoly around the capital region. SUNY Buffalo is a great bargain for a J.D. education, especially if you're a NY resident. Though I think it can be a little hit or miss, but if you want to work regional, there are much worse places to go for that price.
So there is hope! :)
That's practically frightening....
Of course! And being someone who grew up/lives in NYC-area I know more than a handful of very smart and capable people who went to schools like Brooklyn Law School, Hofstra, CUNY, St. Johns, Cardozo, NYLS, etc. and ended up never getting legal jobs. NYC is a big city, but Columbia, NYU, and Cornell (and to some extent Fordham) have a big monopoly on the legal market there; and not just for big law. Also, students from every other T14 (and tons of other schools in general) flock to NYC for legal jobs opportunities. From living/working in NYC, my advice would be to avoid NYC regional schools like Brooklyn Law.
@gregoryalexanderdevine723 thanks for clarifying
I have to agree with @gregoryalexanderdevine723 on that one.
Yeah, I think they can be quite subjective to read. What makes one bad is probably contingent on your goals to some extent. And as I said, anecdata has biased me quite a bit.
As far as reading the 509,
~15% unemployed
~10% employed short term by the university (So that will eventually add somewhat to the unemployed) Plus other short term jobs are listed.
Also, only 215 out of the 336 grads got jobs as attorneys ... So while it is natural that some students going to law school don't do so to practice law; when one in three aren't, that is a red flag for me.
If you're interested in attending a law school in British Columbia, make sure to not eliminate University of Victoria Law School from your considerations. It is a great school and has a great placement rate. Also, Victoria is friggin sooooo beautiful...
@gregoryalexanderdevine723 I looked into ABA report of Brooklyn Law and it seemed fine to me. I am not planning on going there, but out of curiosity what makes an ABA report a bad one?
It seemed like a lot of 2015 graduates secured a job.
Thank you for all these interesting comments!!
I think it would be very difficult for us to help you with this specific question, because the majority of people on this site have a different goal in mind and the rankings are also catering to this same goal -- to get a JD and practice law in the US.
If I understand correctly, you are going to be enrolled in a Masters program in France and have the opportunity to spend a year at a law school in the US on an exchange. Presumably the choices are limited to the schools your French university has an exchange agreement. I don't know a ton about French universities, or about the French law market, but from what I could gather from friends of mine who have done ERASMUS type programs within the EU, the fact that you did the exchange matters more than where exactly you went, unless it was somewhere really prestigious like Oxford or Sorbonne.
For those purposes, I would say all the schools on that list are going to have a similar amount of name recognition in France (they are good US/Canadian schools, but not Harvard or Yale). Whichever one you choose, you'll benefit from having done an exchange in the US/Canada. So unless your professors (who have more insight than me in what matters to French universities and employers) advise you otherwise, pick a place where you'd want to go and spend a year.
USC is in Los Angeles - obviously a lot of people on 7Sage love that, but LA is going to be very different from anywhere in Europe. Plan for a lot of driving. You might love it, or you might hate it - it won't be boring for sure and it's likely to be the most "different" of all the places on your list.
Montreal, McGill, BU and Brooklyn are all in major East Coast type cities. I'd take east coast over LA any day, but that's because I've already done Southern Cali and it wasn't my cup of tea. I'm still glad I got to experience it for a few years.
Montreal is likely to be the friendliest to a French speaking person - that might be a plus, or a drawback - maybe you want to be immersed in English only.
Vancouver is one of my dream cities - upper west coast, gorgeous surroundings, awesome city. It would be very far from France, so it would be harder to visit home (that's only a problem if you're planning to go back and forth a couple of times).
Good luck - it will be an interesting year wherever you go!
McGill or USC... If you're going to be cold you may as well be in the better city... Otherwise, come SoCal it up: TITCR.
Yeah, USC and Boston U are both highly ranked. I think the ranking system is inherently flawed, but such that it is, you will have more opportunities the higher up the rankings you go.
McGill in Canada, but nobody likes Canada anyways ;p. My reasoning is basically US News ranks based of the options you gave us.
SoCal it up man!
I don't know about Canadian schools, tbh. I do know the ones you mentioned are well regarded in the US of A.
I think Boston U and moreso USC are better schools than Brooklyn law school. A friend's sister went there, graduated in 2013, and ended up not being able to secure a legal job. Now works as a substitute teacher. Of course, this is an anecdote, but their ABA reports seem to paint a similar picture in job prospects not being GREAT. And also it is a region school, so I think if you want to practice int'l NYU, Harvard, Yale, UVA, Duke...They all have some great Int'l law prospects.
I will say that I am basing this all off of of the T14 rankings and anecdata (the top 14 law schools) I imagine that the T14 would also tend to be the most widely recognized names internationally as well, thus making them better choices if you wish ti secure legal employment outside of the US.
What were some things you were looking for in your school? Location? class size? specific programs/clinics?
So I did some intensive, in depth research (google.com) and came across this:http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/international-law-rankings
Turns out GT and NYU are on the list! I'm not sure about Canadian schools though.
Hi!
I've heard many good things about Georgetown and NYU in terms of int'l law. I'd check those out :) FYI: NYU is ranked higher than Georgetown if my memory serves me correct.