I feel a little bit robbed because the narrator noted at the beginning of the flaw lesson that all of the correct answers will be sufficient/necessary confusion answer types
only 28 seconds over and i got it right!! i am slowly no needing to use lawgic to write it out and I am starting to develop an intuition (i pray i can keep this up and not fall apart when these questions get more difficult lolll)
though I am getting v tired of suff necessary mix flaw. Can we see other flaws as well? I know there is no shortage of them honestly. I love you JY but I am being tortured w these :((((((((
I felt like I had a good grasp on flaws in formal arguments and could pin point the issue in these Qs but kept getting tripped up by the wording in the AC. This lesson I realized 2 things (that might have already been clear) but that I hope help anyone running into the similar issues.
1. The flaw of negating the sufficient condition is equivalent to sufficient/necessary confusion.
Argument: A -> B
Flaw of Denying Sufficient: /A -> /B when contraposed is just B -> A
2. Since they are interchangeable, the alternative phrasing for A in the lesson is just saying that the arg negated the sufficient condition
Arg confuses that under certain conditions (A) an action will be taken (B) (A->B) with a claim that in the absence of that condition (/A) that action won't be taken (/B) (/A -> /B). Contrapose back, it becomes B -> A
This might not be new info but hope it helps anyone that might have initially overlooked this like I did.
i feel like the reason people get this wrong in a timed scenario is not that it is logically complicated but that answer choice A looks like a trap. A is so obviously stating something in the way most people learn about suff and necc that it feels like a trick. Trying to psychoanalyze the test that you feel is designed to make you question everything may really get to people in said high pressure situation.
Yesss 36 Seconds. Practice, practice, practice Sufficient and Neccesary until it infects your dreams guys! No shame in going back to those initial lessons :)
can someone break down necessary condition vs sufficient for me again in simple terms? I will feel confident understanding it just to get it wrong again
@joannaw something that is sufficient is enough to prove the necessary condition. A common example is cat -> mammal. If you are a cat, it is 100% guaranteed you are a mammal. Cat is sufficient to being a mammal.
Being a mammal, on the other hand, is NOT proof that you are a cat. If you are a mammal, that cannot be used to prove you are also a cat. Mammal -/> cat. This is because being a mammal is the necessary condition, or otherwise stated as being the superset.
For this question specifically, Majority of Citizens Favor the Proposal -> Airport is Built. However, the conclusion the stimulus reaches is that /Majority of Citizens Favor the Proposal -> /Airport is Built. If you contropose this, this is identical to saying Airport is built -> Majority of Citizens Favor the Proposal, AKA the exact opposite of the premise
so far i have a perfect score on formal flaw questions but a zero on informal flaw questions... what am i doing wrong? why isnt informal makes sense to me the way formal is?!
#help okay I am getting tripped up because I feel like so many of these are simply “confusing suf. for nec.”
For ex. this question and like two questions ago - I was choosing A. Then consciously decided to change my answer, thinking there is no way there is this many confusing suf. for nec. and maybe I am being tricked.
106 comments
How do I know when to take a contropositive on these? I thought it was pretty straight forward with sufficient, though it is necessary.
21 seconds under. Flaw questions I'm coming for you.
I feel a little bit robbed because the narrator noted at the beginning of the flaw lesson that all of the correct answers will be sufficient/necessary confusion answer types
only 28 seconds over and i got it right!! i am slowly no needing to use lawgic to write it out and I am starting to develop an intuition (i pray i can keep this up and not fall apart when these questions get more difficult lolll)
#feedback There's a missing space in the explanation for answer choice B ("peopleturn").
though I am getting v tired of suff necessary mix flaw. Can we see other flaws as well? I know there is no shortage of them honestly. I love you JY but I am being tortured w these :((((((((
I wrote it out and understood. Had v attractive answer choices tf
I had my weakening hat on instead of my flaw hat on where I needed to analyze the argument rather than fighting the argument ugh
I felt like I had a good grasp on flaws in formal arguments and could pin point the issue in these Qs but kept getting tripped up by the wording in the AC. This lesson I realized 2 things (that might have already been clear) but that I hope help anyone running into the similar issues.
1. The flaw of negating the sufficient condition is equivalent to sufficient/necessary confusion.
Argument: A -> B
Flaw of Denying Sufficient: /A -> /B when contraposed is just B -> A
2. Since they are interchangeable, the alternative phrasing for A in the lesson is just saying that the arg negated the sufficient condition
Arg confuses that under certain conditions (A) an action will be taken (B) (A->B) with a claim that in the absence of that condition (/A) that action won't be taken (/B) (/A -> /B). Contrapose back, it becomes B -> A
This might not be new info but hope it helps anyone that might have initially overlooked this like I did.
The single time my formal logic training made me diagram and actually helped me
i feel like the reason people get this wrong in a timed scenario is not that it is logically complicated but that answer choice A looks like a trap. A is so obviously stating something in the way most people learn about suff and necc that it feels like a trick. Trying to psychoanalyze the test that you feel is designed to make you question everything may really get to people in said high pressure situation.
Yesss 36 Seconds. Practice, practice, practice Sufficient and Neccesary until it infects your dreams guys! No shame in going back to those initial lessons :)
Got it right through POE
Getting 43 seconds under target feels SO GOOD after getting basically nothing right in NA qs 😭
"I'm speechless. I feel like it's my birthday." I felt that to my core.
@LSATbae123 fr
am i the only one that instantly got this right, i did it 26 seconds under the recommended lol
i keep confusing myself with these suff necess questions :(
i hate doing LSAT. come hell or high water i will be taking this test in may or june of next year and im done i cant take it anymore
@Jupiter24 maybe take a week off and come back.
lmao idk why I struggle w 2 star questions but will do okay on 4 or 5 stars :(((((
can someone break down necessary condition vs sufficient for me again in simple terms? I will feel confident understanding it just to get it wrong again
@joannaw something that is sufficient is enough to prove the necessary condition. A common example is cat -> mammal. If you are a cat, it is 100% guaranteed you are a mammal. Cat is sufficient to being a mammal.
Being a mammal, on the other hand, is NOT proof that you are a cat. If you are a mammal, that cannot be used to prove you are also a cat. Mammal -/> cat. This is because being a mammal is the necessary condition, or otherwise stated as being the superset.
For this question specifically, Majority of Citizens Favor the Proposal -> Airport is Built. However, the conclusion the stimulus reaches is that /Majority of Citizens Favor the Proposal -> /Airport is Built. If you contropose this, this is identical to saying Airport is built -> Majority of Citizens Favor the Proposal, AKA the exact opposite of the premise
@NathanielWright This was so helpful, thank you!
so far i have a perfect score on formal flaw questions but a zero on informal flaw questions... what am i doing wrong? why isnt informal makes sense to me the way formal is?!
POE was the only way i got this tbh
it took me forever to do this question because i saw the word dalton and immediately started hearing a capella in my head #isitoverforme
#help okay I am getting tripped up because I feel like so many of these are simply “confusing suf. for nec.”
For ex. this question and like two questions ago - I was choosing A. Then consciously decided to change my answer, thinking there is no way there is this many confusing suf. for nec. and maybe I am being tricked.
Does anyone else feel like this?
these flaw questions eating me uppp :(