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Ok so basic dream of mine is I been passionately wanting to go to Notre Dame for Intellectual Property law and I have taken the LSAT already and didn't even come close their median which is 162. I will be taking it the second time around in Feburary and lets just say I only get in the higher 150's. With my background and everything else I've done in college and the community would it be plausible to still maybe make it in? I've interned at a law firm of whom the attorney is a Harvard law alumni, I've served in the local State Senate and made quite a few connections there, as well as affiliated with a Catholic Fraternity known as the Knights of Columbus who serve the Catholic churches of my community. I also was Vice President for Phi-Alpha Delta Pre-Law Fraternity in my undergrad years with an ending GPA of 3.36 (Notre Dame median: 3.4). So with all these great recommendations I have in my corner and being honest with myself and how I am at test, Im not the greatest, but in all honesty I don't see how its still not feasible to make it into where you want to go especially with this kinda background. Considering that I'm male of Mexican American descent who comes from a single parent household there has to be someway to get in, I would really enjoy any feedback and advice. I take all criticisms at face value. Thank you
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11 comments
> @fmihalic2127 said:
> @jkatz1488955
>
> I don't know how I found this. I think I just saw it while I was in my "I want to keep studying but my brain is fried for the day" mode. I always surf the 7sage boards at that time haha
I just diagrammed this into lawgic in my head. Time for a drink...
@jkatz1488955
I don't know how I found this. I think I just saw it while I was in my "I want to keep studying but my brain is fried for the day" mode. I always surf the 7sage boards at that time haha
This is a very old (3 years old as a matter of fact) thread. I'm not sure how @fmihalic2127 came upon it.
However, the LSAC provides a very useful tool for answering questions such as this: https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/UGPALSAT/UGPALSAT.aspx
While applying with a GPA and LSAT below the median is not ideal, it is not a fool's errand either. Acceptances in these instances do occur but they are certainly the exception. I would recommend to any current studiers that if you fall into this boat of having both metrics below the median, work your butt off to improve the LSAT score. The GPA is beyond our control, but the LSAT is learnable.
I just saw that. Hopefully he got in...
> @danreynolds323 said:
> Ajcrowel. That kind of generalization is BS. There are tons of people who score 170 on the exam and have shit GPAs, and the opposite is true. I have a 3.8 GPA from UT, and I scored below their median on the LSAT. One does equate to another. To score a 170 on the LSAT, you have to study technique, if even a little. If you had all day to take the test, many people would do better. However you have 35 minutes per section. My point is, a personal who has a 4.0 GPA, might not score well on the LSAT. Not because he isn't smart enough, but because he didn't take the time to learn techniques he needs to increae speed.
He is saying if OP's GPA and their LSAT are below median they have a small chance.
Also, guys, you do realize that this post is over 3 years old, right? Haha ;)
Ajcrowel. That kind of generalization is BS. There are tons of people who score 170 on the exam and have shit GPAs, and the opposite is true. I have a 3.8 GPA from UT, and I scored below their median on the LSAT. One does equate to another. To score a 170 on the LSAT, you have to study technique, if even a little. If you had all day to take the test, many people would do better. However you have 35 minutes per section. My point is, a personal who has a 4.0 GPA, might not score well on the LSAT. Not because he isn't smart enough, but because he didn't take the time to learn techniques he needs to increae speed.
The answer is going to depend on a lot of factors.
1. LSAT score. If there a lot of applicants, that is one of the first things they will use to make cuts. It's a numeric figure that shows aptitude. Being at the median will help. Being below will hurt. When I applied to law School in 2008, originally, I had a below median LSAT and a way above median GPA. Great letters of rec, extensive experience working for the federal government, etc. I didn't get in. I got wait-listed at my safety school.
Work hard and study for the LSAT. That is going to end up being the most important factor.
I want to go to Georgetown. I have a 3.8 average GPA (undergrad and grad), stellar recommendations, and in addition to having worked at the Federal level I am about to be classified as a disabled military veteran.
None of that will matter if I don't score well on the LSAT.
I'm not trying to discourage you. But you need to temper expectations with a lower LSAT score. There's a good chance you're going to get crushed if you can't do that. Don't rush to failure. Take the time, get a good score, get into Notre Dame.
Not to be the bearer of bad news, but if your LSAT is below Notre Dame's median and your GPA is as well your chances of acceptance are small.
It's certainly possible. The difference between a 158 and a 162 is about 5 questions. If I were you, I'd focus on getting that score to a 165. If you have the intelligence to get yourself in with the State Senate on any level, you can get very, very good at LR and LG.
is Notre Dame's median really 162? geez that's pretty low. Thought it would be something like 167 or around there.
I would just keep retaking to get at their median score. Maybe sit out a cycle if you have too. This test is pretty learnable and a 162 is fairly acheiveable for most test takers. Is english your 2nd language? that might be a barrier.
Anyways, just honestly keep retaking. 162 is achievable. I've worked my way up on this test starting at a 147(official score, not a diag). I am now scoring between 167-172. If you have to sit out a cycle then do it. If you really really really want notre dame that badly, just sit out a cycle and retake if you are not ready by the 27th of this month or by December.
edit: Just reread your post. Dude, just retake once your PT scores are above 162. This test is learnable and you're a URM. I repeat you are a URM, at least in the state of Indiana. Don't waste that gift given by an inept congress/senate. Just retake. Trust me you'll thank me next year when your score is way above 162.
Although I am also in the same boat as you (in regards to applying to law schools) I really think you have a good chance. First of I would like to say remember what the "median" number represents. That means half the class got higher than 162 and then half the class got LOWER than a 162. There is no exact way to predict wether or not you will get in, however, I do think you have a fair shot. For those lower than a 162 there definitely should be some students in the 150s or high 150s. Just make sure to have a strong personal statement and being that this is the law school you really want to go to, I would suggest perhaps targeting your personal statement a bit just to express that this is the school for you. Also there is a website called "law school numbers" that allows you to see people who got accepted to different law schools and what were their lsats and gpas. I am pasting the link for Notre Dame Law School. If you look at this graph it says that a few students were accepted with a 154 LSAT. The website link is as follows: http://notredame.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1415. It is important to know that these are students who claim they have these scores and LSATs. To sum it all up, if you feel like you have a strong application, you should go ahead and apply.