not sure if this was what Adrian intended (and feel free to ignore if you figured it out or if this is a misinterpretation!), but i'm envisioning it as an element necessary to completing the structure of the house. you can't have a house without having a roof - otherwise the house isn't completed.
so you can think of the conclusion in a similar way - they're meant to provide a point to the argument along w/ the premise(s) and overall support. w/o it, it's not an argument.
Arguments that the LSAT loves to use on logical reasoning and we can all relate to is advertisements. Notice how I don’t say an argument from an advertisement, that would be redundant, advertisements themselves are arguments!
Let’s examine the aim. Advertisements at the very core is to persuade your thinking which in turn may persuade your actions that is beneficial for the advertiser. Whether that is to get you buy something, vote for something, like or dislike something is specific to the situation. However, the aim of the advertisement is to persuade for benefits.
Forward thinking of how a argument has a premise/conclusion relationship, an advertisement says “buy our milk (conclusion) because it is higher in vitamin D than any other milk (premise).”
Look, that argument is not strong, vitamin D is one of many variables that goes into high quality milk; also, how much higher exactly? So negligible that the extra vitamin D won’t even be beneficial for the body? The argument is weak. However, say you are a person who is a vitamin D enthusiast, everyday you climb up a 200 feet towers just to get closer to the sun. You might find this argument incredibly persuasive. Although overall, the support relationship is weak.
LEARNING: I learned the hard way that thinking"I know not to have cognitive biases in the LSAT duh," did not hold true when I got to a topic I was knowledgable in (E.g. having a background in research & getting a question on a theory I studied).
TIP: Read to parse out the support relationship, then I can quickly fish out ONLY what the author is giving me (premises) to convince (aim) me of their conclusion (argument). Understanding the support relationship is a big deal: I ask "the author wants me to believe that? how the hell did he get there?"
Keep an open mind even if you're an expert on the topic - use only what the arg. gives you - don't let your brain add-in knowledge Why? Bc the lsat WANTS to trick us
When it comes to persuasion you can sometimes make the mistake of basing it on emotion be careful to not lean on emotion to determine how strong an argument is. Instead, lean on how strong the support is.
Ok y'all, I think in metaphors and analogies a lot to help me grasp ideas. Here's an analogy for an argument that's helping me rn: An argument is like a car (stay with me).
It's aiming for a certain destination (the conclusion).
But to work, a car needs gas and good tires. If there's no gas (no premise), then the car can't move towards the conclusion.
The tires of the car are the claims. Every car has tires. But do those tires have good tread? Do they have a nail in them? Have enough air pressure? If the claims of the argument are flawed, the argument will have a hard time supporting the conclusion and vice versa. Same goes for a car, if the tires (the claims) are flat or otherwise not in working order, the car can't get to the destination or won't get there well.
Hope this helps someone, lmk if you have any good analogies for remembering what an argument is! Plz and ty
@KC_AllIn This was confusing. It seems to separate premises from claims, even though a premise is a claim. Using gas as the premise and tires as the claims made me think they were different things. What made it click for me was: a premise is a statement, and its purpose is to support the conclusion. Done.
Basically, the definition of argument is no screaming, drama, or flipping tables. Rather, it's someone trying to convince you of something.
Argument = premise (why you should believe it) + conclusion (what they want you to believe.) PREMISE + CONCLUSION
(Personal experience) Example: My girl is on her period so she's going to start acting moody with me!
"My girl is on her period" = premise
"She's going to start acting moody!" = conclusion
Tadaaa. Argument.
Disclaimer: Use example at your own risk or YOU will create an argument of your own with your girlfriend. And NOT the type of argument this course is teaching us haha!
@BrandonChavez Hey Brandon this is a great example. An example I'd like to use and I want you to see if this is good, is "The sun is up, so that means it's going to be sunny today."
PREMISE = The sun is up
CONCLUSION = It's going to be sunny today
Let me know if this is a good way in regard to the example you provided.
I know this is just the beginning and basics, but thank you for the breakdown of the information in such layman terms, super helpful with processing and retaining the information!
Hi! I'm studying for the November test to try and get into law school in 2026. Feel free to join my Discord for a study group and connecting! Btw - you're not cooked and you can do it! Praying for all of us fr https://discord.gg/b8XaYkZHxk
@jayprev97 I am using a notebook and highlighters. For school I swear by Goodnotes, everything needed from Canvas is in there and then my notes and what not. But, for the sake of my brain, pen and paper (physically) help me better process and retain information than my ipad. Maybe I will change it up in the future, but I like it best this way for now.
@BillyGoat i. think do whatever helps you retain information best! For this section, it's more about a way of thinking, so I won't be taking notes but instead engaging in this form of thinking realistically. For example, next time you see an argument being made, try and actively identify these terms. I believe it will make identifying arguments on the LSAT easier, as you won't have access to notes there. It's best for me to just immerse my brain into thinking this way!
@asphodelia Right -- I always struggled with drill questions that ask why is an argument weak. Glad they pointed out the diff between persuasiveness vs strength :)
To summarize: 1. the aim of an argument is to persuade. 2. an argument is premise(s) + conclusion. 3. the more the premises support the conclusion, the stronger the argument will be.
This is insightful. Besides the definition, I have noted that some arguments can to be more persuasive than strong yet others can be stronger but less persuasive. To me, there can also be those that are both strong and persuasive.
He did mention already in the beginning, that these arguments will be intellectual based rather than emotional which tracks with what you just said, in different wording.
@tiara-ross4 the premise is the claim that throws support like a pitcher in baseball to the conclusion like the catcher. If you notice a claim/sentence is stated to support another claim, then that is your premise. On the other hand if you notice a claim does not support any other statement and is being supported by other claims/sentences in the passage that is your conclusion.
"If we had complete knowledge about everything, including the existence and nature of a higher power, there would be no need for faith" is a common statement I see to evade providing actual supports to arguments/claims.
"The hotdogs at the store cost 1 dollar. Therefore, they taste good." If you love hotdogs, this may be enough to persuade you to buy them. But, in actuality, there is no relation between cost supporting taste.
65 comments
Had to switch it up a bit since I don't relate to baseball
Argument = the house
Support = the design plan of the house drawn out
Premise = the foundation of the house
Conclusion = the roof of the house
Persuasion = the realtor trying to sell the house (the argument)
Bless
The Powerscore LR book also uses a similar visualization! :)
love this! would you mind breaking down the conclusion part 'roof of the house' relating to the finished product? still a bit confused on that part
not sure if this was what Adrian intended (and feel free to ignore if you figured it out or if this is a misinterpretation!), but i'm envisioning it as an element necessary to completing the structure of the house. you can't have a house without having a roof - otherwise the house isn't completed.
so you can think of the conclusion in a similar way - they're meant to provide a point to the argument along w/ the premise(s) and overall support. w/o it, it's not an argument.
Arguments that the LSAT loves to use on logical reasoning and we can all relate to is advertisements. Notice how I don’t say an argument from an advertisement, that would be redundant, advertisements themselves are arguments!
Let’s examine the aim. Advertisements at the very core is to persuade your thinking which in turn may persuade your actions that is beneficial for the advertiser. Whether that is to get you buy something, vote for something, like or dislike something is specific to the situation. However, the aim of the advertisement is to persuade for benefits.
Forward thinking of how a argument has a premise/conclusion relationship, an advertisement says “buy our milk (conclusion) because it is higher in vitamin D than any other milk (premise).”
Look, that argument is not strong, vitamin D is one of many variables that goes into high quality milk; also, how much higher exactly? So negligible that the extra vitamin D won’t even be beneficial for the body? The argument is weak. However, say you are a person who is a vitamin D enthusiast, everyday you climb up a 200 feet towers just to get closer to the sun. You might find this argument incredibly persuasive. Although overall, the support relationship is weak.
my brain hurts.
@PaperChaseWebb Same
@PaperChaseWebb
LMAOSAME!@PaperChaseWebb Bruh same haha
LEARNING: I learned the hard way that thinking"I know not to have cognitive biases in the LSAT duh," did not hold true when I got to a topic I was knowledgable in (E.g. having a background in research & getting a question on a theory I studied).
TIP: Read to parse out the support relationship, then I can quickly fish out ONLY what the author is giving me (premises) to convince (aim) me of their conclusion (argument). Understanding the support relationship is a big deal: I ask "the author wants me to believe that? how the hell did he get there?"
Keep an open mind even if you're an expert on the topic - use only what the arg. gives you - don't let your brain add-in knowledge Why? Bc the lsat WANTS to trick us
When it comes to persuasion you can sometimes make the mistake of basing it on emotion be careful to not lean on emotion to determine how strong an argument is. Instead, lean on how strong the support is.
Good advice!
Ok y'all, I think in metaphors and analogies a lot to help me grasp ideas. Here's an analogy for an argument that's helping me rn: An argument is like a car (stay with me).
It's aiming for a certain destination (the conclusion).
But to work, a car needs gas and good tires. If there's no gas (no premise), then the car can't move towards the conclusion.
The tires of the car are the claims. Every car has tires. But do those tires have good tread? Do they have a nail in them? Have enough air pressure? If the claims of the argument are flawed, the argument will have a hard time supporting the conclusion and vice versa. Same goes for a car, if the tires (the claims) are flat or otherwise not in working order, the car can't get to the destination or won't get there well.
Hope this helps someone, lmk if you have any good analogies for remembering what an argument is! Plz and ty
@KC_AllIn Thank you very helpful
@VictoriaNwankwo Np, I'm so glad it helped!!! Happy studying :]
@KC_AllIn soo helpful, thank you!
@KC_AllIn Great analogy, helped me out a lot!
@KC_AllIn This was confusing. It seems to separate premises from claims, even though a premise is a claim. Using gas as the premise and tires as the claims made me think they were different things. What made it click for me was: a premise is a statement, and its purpose is to support the conclusion. Done.
Basically, the definition of argument is no screaming, drama, or flipping tables. Rather, it's someone trying to convince you of something.
Argument = premise (why you should believe it) + conclusion (what they want you to believe.) PREMISE + CONCLUSION
(Personal experience) Example: My girl is on her period so she's going to start acting moody with me!
"My girl is on her period" = premise
"She's going to start acting moody!" = conclusion
Tadaaa. Argument.
Disclaimer: Use example at your own risk or YOU will create an argument of your own with your girlfriend. And NOT the type of argument this course is teaching us haha!
@BrandonChavez Hey Brandon this is a great example. An example I'd like to use and I want you to see if this is good, is "The sun is up, so that means it's going to be sunny today."
PREMISE = The sun is up
CONCLUSION = It's going to be sunny today
Let me know if this is a good way in regard to the example you provided.
@AaronMiller2003 Your example is correct brother. Definitely more appropriate than mine too haha! Good stuff.
I know this is just the beginning and basics, but thank you for the breakdown of the information in such layman terms, super helpful with processing and retaining the information!
The more the premises support the conclusion, the stronger the argument is ---> logical force!
premise + conclusion = argument. Got it! :)
Everyone in here is getting into the thick of it and I'm just here still re-reading this section, it's over
@Ryo same haha
Hi! I'm studying for the November test to try and get into law school in 2026. Feel free to join my Discord for a study group and connecting! Btw - you're not cooked and you can do it! Praying for all of us fr https://discord.gg/b8XaYkZHxk
@Naomiboyer04
Hi! How is your life's journey in law school so far? Best of luck!
The breakdown really helped me:)
How is everyone taking notes?
I'm using my Note-taking app on my tablet.
I use Goodnotes!
I literly use my notebook, and highlighters.
I use Notability on my iPad for everything. I swear by it.
Same. I started using it and bought it long before it became subscription-based. Have lifetime free access now :)
me to lol.
@jayprev97 should I be taking notes?
@jayprev97 GoogleDocs for the win. I can access it anywhere, anytime, and on any device
@jayprev97 Using Samsung Note. I access it on my phone, my laptop and on my tablet so it's available anywhere I want to randomly review.
@jayprev97 I am using a notebook and highlighters. For school I swear by Goodnotes, everything needed from Canvas is in there and then my notes and what not. But, for the sake of my brain, pen and paper (physically) help me better process and retain information than my ipad. Maybe I will change it up in the future, but I like it best this way for now.
@BillyGoat i. think do whatever helps you retain information best! For this section, it's more about a way of thinking, so I won't be taking notes but instead engaging in this form of thinking realistically. For example, next time you see an argument being made, try and actively identify these terms. I believe it will make identifying arguments on the LSAT easier, as you won't have access to notes there. It's best for me to just immerse my brain into thinking this way!
this breakdown helped me sm with how strong vs. weak an arg is!
@asphodelia Right -- I always struggled with drill questions that ask why is an argument weak. Glad they pointed out the diff between persuasiveness vs strength :)
To summarize: 1. the aim of an argument is to persuade. 2. an argument is premise(s) + conclusion. 3. the more the premises support the conclusion, the stronger the argument will be.
@cmata sounds right
This is insightful. Besides the definition, I have noted that some arguments can to be more persuasive than strong yet others can be stronger but less persuasive. To me, there can also be those that are both strong and persuasive.
He did mention already in the beginning, that these arguments will be intellectual based rather than emotional which tracks with what you just said, in different wording.
Lousy parents don't pay child [structure of argument]
Persuasion does not mean without flaw. Got it!
I'm curious if I should think of the strength of an argument as the amount of support provided to a conclusion by a premise?
Persuasion is basically biased but without evidence it’s flawed. Did I understand that right?
@SarahShaver thats what I was thinking too
I think its true that Persuasion and Support trick me up sometimes. One can be stronger than the other.
Thanks guys, these comments (on milk and houses) are really helpful!
How are you able to identify the premise in a passage?
@tiara-ross4 the premise is the claim that throws support like a pitcher in baseball to the conclusion like the catcher. If you notice a claim/sentence is stated to support another claim, then that is your premise. On the other hand if you notice a claim does not support any other statement and is being supported by other claims/sentences in the passage that is your conclusion.
What is an example of an argument that is persuasive but not well supported?
"If we had complete knowledge about everything, including the existence and nature of a higher power, there would be no need for faith" is a common statement I see to evade providing actual supports to arguments/claims.
@gameemilia Let's use a hypothetical.
"The hotdogs at the store cost 1 dollar. Therefore, they taste good." If you love hotdogs, this may be enough to persuade you to buy them. But, in actuality, there is no relation between cost supporting taste.