Hey guys, I am currently finalizing my applications but am on the fence if I should submit an optional essay for this prompt:

"You are not required to submit an optional statement. However, you may upload an optional statement regarding any economic, cultural, social, or other factors that you wish for us to consider when reviewing your application. Your optional statement should not exceed two pages (double-spaced) with a minimum of one-inch margins and a 10-point font size. Your decision not to provide an optional statement does not adversely impact the review of your application."

Am I wrong in interpreting this as a diversity statement? For context, my optional essay is about how Washington state mountaineering culture influenced my identity and instilled perseverance and tenacity in me. I do NOT want to submit this and come off as tone deaf or ignorant to admission officers if others are writing about URM status and going through real struggles rather than writing about hobbies. Any thoughts or advice?

Hi All, I am currently working on writing my diversity statement. I want to write about my experience living in poverty. I recently read the nonfiction book, "Poverty, by America" by Matthew Desmond and it articulates a lot about poverty that I want to reference in my essay. I am wondering if it is appropriate to use quotes from the book such as, "Poverty reduces people born for better things" or "Poverty is diminished life and personhood. It changes how you think and prevents you from realizing your full potential". I want to use quotes like above to try to define/explain the ways in which poverty has affected my life while also referencing an intellectual source not only to substantiate my experience but also exemplify my academic ability to analyze a piece of work in my own experience. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! TIA

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around some of these public interest essays (like Root-Tilden, Berk Public Interest Scholars, and general supplemental essays). I can't find a single example anywhere. Has anyone managed to find some?

Does anyone have suggestions on how to approach this? I am not sure if it needs to be a personal story or if I can just talk about my work experience. I'm running out of creative juice.

As many of you have likely heard by now, Yale, Harvard, and now Berkeley have announced that they will no longer participate in the US News and World Report law school rankings process. More schools are likely to follow in the days and weeks to come. The US News rankings have long been a staple in law school admissions. I’ve been through law school, several of my own admissions cycles, and hundreds more cycles by proxy through my students, and no single event has come anywhere close to the level of impact this will have. So let’s break down what this means and how it affects applicants.

#####What were the US News rankings?

This part is perhaps the most confusing aspect in all of this. The US News rankings were just what they sound like: The law school rankings established by one random publication--The otherwise unremarkable US News & World Report. There are other rankings by other entities--The ATL rankings are a great alternative--but for some reason it was the US News rankings that became the "official" rankings. The T14 schools were the schools ranked in the top 14 in the US News rankings. There is no particular reason for this ever having been the case. US News has no special indicia of legitimacy making their rankings supreme. Despite the arbitrariness of it all, it has provided a universal standard.

#####How were the rankings determined?

Here's the methodology, copied straight from US News:

####Quality Assessment

Quality assessment was composed of two indicators of expert opinion that contributed 40% to the overall rank.

Peer assessment score (weighted by 0.25): Law school deans, deans of academic affairs, chairs of faculty appointments and the most recently tenured faculty members rated programs' overall quality on a scale from marginal (1) to outstanding (5), marking "don't know" for schools they did not know well enough to evaluate. A school's score is the average of 1-5 ratings received. U.S. News administered the peer assessment survey in fall 2021 and early 2022. Sixty nine percent of recipients responded.

Lawyers and judges assessment score (0.15): Legal professionals – including hiring partners of law firms, practicing attorneys and judges – rated programs' overall quality on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (outstanding), marking "don't know" for schools they did not know well enough to evaluate. A school's score is the average of 1-5 ratings it received across the three most recent survey years. U.S. News administered the legal professionals survey in fall 2021 and early 2022 to recipients that law schools provided to U.S. News in summer 2021.

####Placement Success

Placement success is composed of five indicators that total 26% (previously 25.25%) of each school's rank. The two most heavily weighted indicators pertain to employment.

Employment rates for 2020 graduates 10 months after graduation (0.14) and at graduation (0.04): For both ranking factors, schools received maximum credit when their J.D. graduates – in alignment with ABA reporting rules – obtained long-term jobs that were full time, not funded by the law school, and where a J.D. degree was an advantage or bar passage was required. In contrast, jobs that were some combination of short term, part time, funded by the law school and/or did not require bar passage received less credit by varying amounts, determined by the combination. For a more detailed explanation, see Notes on Employment Rates, below.

Bar passage rate (0.03, previously 0.0225): U.S. News revamped its treatment of bar passage rates to incorporate all graduates who took the bar for the first time. Computations were further modified to de-emphasize the impact of geography on law schools' relative performance.

Specifically, the bar passage rate indicator scored schools on their 2020 first-time test takers' weighted bar passage rates among all jurisdictions (states), then added or subtracted the percentage point difference between those rates and the weighted state average among ABA accredited schools' first-time test takers in the corresponding jurisdictions in 2020. This meant schools that performed best on this ranking factor graduated students whose bar passage rates were both higher than most schools overall, and higher compared with what was typical among graduates who took the bar in corresponding jurisdictions.

For example, if a law school graduated 100 students who first took the bar exam – and 88 took the Florida exam, 10 the Georgia exam and two the South Carolina exam – the school's weighted average rate would use pass rate results that were weighted 88% Florida, 10% Georgia and 2% South Carolina. This computation would then be compared with an index of these jurisdictions' average pass rates – also weighted 88-10-2. (For privacy, school profiles on usnews.com only display bar passage data for jurisdictions with at least 10 test-takers.) Both weighted averages included any graduates who passed the bar with diploma privilege. Diploma privilege is a method for J.D. graduates to be admitted to a state bar and allowed to practice law in that state without taking that state's actual bar examination. Diploma privilege is generally based on attending and graduating from a law school in that state with the diploma privilege.

In previous editions, U.S. News divided each school's first-time bar passage rate in its single jurisdiction with the most test-takers by the average for that lone jurisdiction. This approach effectively excluded many law schools' graduates who took the bar. Dividing by the state average also meant the location of a law school impacted its quotient as much as its graduates' bar passage rate itself. The new arithmetic accounts for average passage rates across all applicable jurisdictions as proxy for each exam's difficulty and reflects that passing the bar is a critical outcome measure in itself.

Average debt incurred obtaining a J.D. at graduation (0.03) and the percent of law school graduates incurring J.D. law school debt (0.02): According to a 2021 American Bar Association report, many new lawyers are postponing major life decisions like marriage, having children and buying houses – or rejecting them outright – because they are carrying heavy student loan debts. J.D. graduate debt is impacting Black and Hispanic students the most since they borrow more, according to the ABA. For the second consecutive year, the ranking includes two indicators that took into account this J.D. graduate debt load and its impact on law school graduates, the legal profession and prospective law school students.

This data was based on J.D. candidate graduates in 2020-2021. The indicators were calculated by comparing each school's value with the median value (midpoint) for that indicator. Schools whose values were farthest below the median scored the highest, and schools that were most above the median scored the lowest on each indicator.

####Selectivity

Selectivity is a proxy of student excellence. Its three indicators contributed 21% in total to the ranking.

Median Law School Admission Test and Graduate Record Examination scores (0.1125): These are the combined median scores on the LSAT and GRE quantitative, verbal and analytical writing exams of all 2021 full- and part-time entrants to the J.D. program. Reported scores for each of the four exams, when applicable, were converted to 0-100 percentile scales. The LSAT and GRE percentile scales were weighted by the proportions of test-takers submitting each exam. For example, if 85% of exams submitted were LSATs and 15% submitted were GREs, the LSAT percentile would be multiplied by 0.85 and the average percentile of the three GRE exams by 0.15 before summing the two values. This means GRE scores were never converted to LSAT scores or vice versa. There were 59 law schools – 31% of the total ranked law schools – that reported both the LSAT and GRE scores of their 2021 entering classes to U.S. News.

Median undergraduate grade point average (0.0875): This is the combined median undergraduate GPA of all 2021 full- and part-time entrants to the J.D. program. Law schools with higher median GPAs scored higher on this indicator.

Acceptance rate (0.01): This is the combined proportion of applicants to both the full- and part-time J.D. programs who were accepted for the 2021 entering class. A lower acceptance rate scored higher because this indicated greater selectivity.

####Faculty, Law School and Library Resources

Faculty, law school and library resources is comprised of four indicators weighted at 13% (previously 13.75%) of the ranking and is composed of two indicators on expenditures, one on student-faculty ratio and one for library resources. The two metrics on expenditures per student, below, pertain to the 2020 and 2021 fiscal years.

The average spending on instruction, library and supporting services (0.09) and the average spending on all other items, including financial aid (0.01): The faculty resources calculation for instruction, library and supporting services is adjusted for cost of living variations in law school salaries between school geographic locations by using publicly available Bureau of Economic Analysis Regional Price Parities index data.

Student-faculty ratio (0.02): This is the ratio of law school students to law school faculty members for 2021. The student-to-faculty ratio definition that U.S. News uses is a modified version of the Common Data Set's definition, a standard used throughout higher education based on the ratio of full-time equivalent students to full-time equivalent faculty. For law schools, full-time equivalent faculty is defined as full-time faculty plus one-third part-time law school faculty. Full-time equivalent students are defined as full-time law school students plus two-thirds of total part-time law school students.

Library resources and operations (0.01, previously 0.017): Following additional examination of their data, U.S. News has discontinued using the seven library indicators used once in the previous ranking. In their place is one new indicator: The ratio of full-time equivalent professional librarian positions as of June 30, 2021 (or the close of a law school's fiscal year) to fall 2021 full-time equivalent law students.

#####Why are schools opting out?

Like most things, Erwin Chemerinsky said it better than anyone else could. Professor Chemerinsky is the dean of Berkeley Law School, probably the greatest living Constitutional Law scholar, and hopefully the next Supreme Court Justice of the United States:

After careful consideration, Berkeley Law has decided not to continue to participate in the US News ranking of law schools. Although rankings are inevitable and inevitably have some arbitrary features, there are aspects of the US News rankings that are profoundly inconsistent with our values and public mission.

Berkeley Law is a public school, with a deep commitment to increasing access to justice, training attorneys who will work to improve society in a variety of ways, and to empowering the next generation of leaders and thinkers, many of whom will come from communities who historically were not part of the legal profession. We are also committed to excellence: in our programs, scholarship, financial support, research, and certainly among our students. We take pride in producing attorneys who are highly skilled, highly sought after, and dedicated to public service and pro bono. This is who we are.

Rankings have the meaning that we give them as a community. I do not want to pretend they do not. And rankings will exist with or without our participation. The question becomes, then, do we think that there is a benefit to participation in the US News process that outweighs the costs? The answer, we feel, is no.

We want to be specific about the basis for this assertion. It is not about railing against rankings or complaining that they “hurt” us in some way. However, there are specific issues that we have struggled with for years, and raised with leadership at US News to no avail. These are:

Their ranking penalizes schools that help students launch careers in public service law.

Berkeley Law has a program where we provide students a fellowship for a year after graduation to work in a public interest organization. These positions include a salary comparable to an entry-level position in public service or public interest, as well as a stipend during study for the bar examination. We have done this for many years and 94 percent of those who receive such fellowships remain doing public interest law after the fellowship ends. But US News does not count these students as fully employed. This creates a perverse incentive for schools to eliminate these positions, despite their success and despite the training they provide for future public service attorneys.

Moreover, consistent with our public mission, we have one of the most favorable loan repayment assistance programs in the country. We have recently revised it to make it even more helpful to our graduates pursuing public interest and public service careers. US News pays no attention to this, measuring student debt but ignoring how schools are helping students who need assistance to repay it.

The USNWR ranking formula disregards and discounts graduates who are pursuing advanced degrees.

We are pleased that every year some pursue Ph.D. and MBA degrees. More than pleased; we are a law school that trains scholars, and seeks to add new voices to legal academia and other university spaces. Yet these graduates count as “unemployed” in the US News methodology. While we maintain a faculty committee dedicated to helping graduates and students pursue legal academia, we are one of the few law schools that does. This limits access to an important field and keeps in place traditional barriers to diversifying academia.

The rankings methodology creates incentives to de-prioritize things we think are critical to our profession and role in society.

One of the most pernicious aspects of the US News rankings is its measure of per student expenditures. There is no evidence that this correlates to the quality of the education received. This works to the disadvantage of schools that have lower tuition and therefore lower per student expenditures.

US News discounts per student expenditures in some areas of the country by a cost-of-living adjustment that has nothing to do with educational quality. Again, I have complained to US News about this for years to no avail.

USNWR looks at student loan debt without appropriate context, creating incentives for law schools to admit high-income applicants (and those from high-income/high-wealth families) who can “afford to pay,” and will not take on much student loan debt. It also incentivizes the elimination of need-based aid. We have preserved a need-based aid program because we believe it is the right thing to do, but if we eliminated it we could certainly increase median LSAT scores and GPA by channeling all resources into recruitment of those students. This, we feel, is wrong – yet we understand why some schools do this, and the answer is because they fear to do otherwise will hurt their rankings.

Nothing about Berkeley Law is fundamentally changed by this decision. We will be the law school we’ve always been, and we will strive to improve – in accordance with our values. Now is a moment when law schools need to express to US News that they have created undesirable incentives for legal education. Accordingly, Berkeley Law will not participate in the US News survey this year.

#####What will be different moving forward?

I think this should be more of a discussion. No one really knows, certainly not me, so what do people think?

Hello,

I am working a full time job at Goldman Sachs. Just graduated from UNC-Chapel Hill in May 2024. I hope to apply to law school in the 2026 cycle.

Since I am 1-2 years out of school. Any tips on: A) Who to ask for letter of recommendation? B) How to ask them? C) How much leniency law schools will give me about my LORs given that I am years out of school?

Thanks!

Dear all,

I had planned to take the October test, but my score was not good enough, so I withdrew my October test and am now preparing for the January one. I hope I have more time to figure out the test.

But is it too late to apply to well-ranked law schools after the January test?

Thanks a lot for the help!

Greetings, 7Sagers!

On Tuesday, September 24 at 8pm ET, join 7Sage admissions consultants Taj McCoy and Dr. Sam Riley for another panel discussion with law school admissions deans from across the country. For this conversation, hear from representatives of Boston College, Catholic University, Howard University, Loyola University Chicago, Loyola Los Angeles, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, as they weigh in on strategizing personal statements and statements of perspective. The audience will be able to submit questions on this topic throughout the session via the Q&A widget.

Registration Link: https://7sage.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZArdu-urDgiE9B2qMtAQujHhwwD0Jmnlj56.

Note: The event will be recorded and posted to our podcast once edited for sound quality.

Greetings, 7Sagers!

On Wednesday, November 29 at 8pm ET, join 7Sage admissions consultant Tajira McCoy for another panel discussion with law school admissions deans from across the country. For this conversation, hear from representatives of Boston College, Catholic University, Howard University, Loyola University Chicago, Loyola Los Angeles, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and potentially others TBD, as they weigh in on the importance of disclosure for Character & Fitness questions and strategizing letters of recommendation. The audience will be able to submit questions on this topic throughout the session.

Registration link: https://7sage.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_VdUm9m3LRfydq5eIM2jyPA#/registration

Please note that this event will be recorded and added to our podcast once it's edited for sound quality.

Hi everyone!

This year we got more than 1000 applications for our 7K scholarship! After combing through them all, we’re thrilled to announce the winner and runners-up. We’re deeply moved by the stories and determination of these students, and are confident that the world will be a better place when they have law degrees.

Okay, drumroll please:

The winner of the 7Sage 7K scholarship is Alexis Boehmer. Alexis will receive a scholarship of $7,000 to defray the cost of a legal education, a pro bono Admissions Consulting package, and a pro bono 12-month subscription to 7Sage’s LSAT prep course.

The runner-up is Liyu Woldemichael. Liyu will receive a scholarship of $1,000, a pro bono 12-month subscription to 7Sage’s LSAT prep course, and a pro bono Admissions Consulting package.

There were five finalists: Shayra Nunez, Jasmin Gonzalez Escobar, Joyce Giboom Park, Bree Pate, and Nayla Paredes. The finalists will each receive pro bono LSAT prep along with consulting or editing services.

In all, we are awarding $8,000, seven LSAT prep packages, and seven admissions consulting or editing packages.

To those we didn't recognize—thank you for taking the time to submit your applications. We know it took time and effort, and we’re grateful to have learned about your journeys. This decision was incredibly challenging; so many of your stories moved us. Your essays make it clear that each of you will achieve remarkable things in the legal profession.

We’ll open applications for the 2025 7Sage 7K scholarship this spring—stay tuned!

Winner:

Alexis Boehmer

Runner-up:

Liyu Woldemichael

Finalists:

Shayra Nunez

Jasmin Jasmin Gonzalez Escobar

Joyce Giboom Park

Bree Pate

Nayla Paredes

Hi everyone! 7Sage Alum here. After a year or so of grueling practice, I finally got a score I wanted to shoot my shot for a T-14 this past August - a 170! I'm a bit nervous applying because I took the LSAT three times, with 2 previous attempts with logic game and the August one without (does that also matter? will the 170 be discounted in anyway because it was in the new format?) I wondering if I need to write an addendum to explain what happened and if so, what to write in it.

For more details, here is my LSAT history: November 23: 159, January 24: 163, August 24: 170

hey all! Looking for some guidance with my personal essay. I've been in the brainstorming phase of my essay for a while now trying to find my ending. I want to tell a story about myself that is genuine and stays with the reader. I want to write about my love of working with kids. i've done it all my life. it was my "thing" in college, serving as a camp counselor for kids with cancer. I could tell a million stories about how those kids shifted my perspective, made me listen more, etc. But i am having trouble connecting that to law. It seems like every university prompt that I read mentions "you should address your interest in law/why this makes you a good candidate" If you have any advice or have gotten over this same obstacle please lmk

I was reading an article published a few years ago about personal statements, and it recommended to specify the personal statement to each school you apply to. It had two examples where the authors included 2-4 sentences showing some knowledge of the school's programs and why it aligned with their personal stories/interests. (https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/articles/2017-04-27/2-law-school-personal-statements-that-succeeded)

My question is, is necessary or even good advice? I haven't seen any schools recommending this on their website, and Harvard specifically states that they don't really want it (They say: "As for discussing HLS in your personal statement, we do not recommend it. The admissions team knows a lot about Harvard Law School — but we don’t know much about you quite yet."). I understand that you shouldn't make the entire statement about a certain school, but am worried that even the 2-4 sentences recommended by the US News article might be penalized.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts about this!

Greetings 7Sagers!

As promised, Dr. Riley and I are going to address some of the most common questions from last night's Q&A that we weren't able to get to. We'll be adding questions and responses to this thread through the end of the week!

Warmly,

Taj

Hi, I just took my August LSAT and I like my score, however, I will be taking it again in October. I was wondering if anyone has any insight on when is a good deadline to have my applications in by.

I also know that some people are offered fee waivers to apply to specific schools by those schools. Is there anything people do in particular to be offered those?

I'm writing about a very niche topic, and I'm including a short background paragraph in my essay. Do I need to/should I include a citation for this information? My gut is saying no, but if it's information that didn't come directly from me I don't want to end up plagiarizing.

Was stuck between D and E, but decided to go with answer choice E.

Someone please explain why E is wrong

­In the course of his reading, George Orwell probably encountered certain storytelling conventions over and over again, and these are the devices he would have most likely used in his work. That is why it does not follow that, even though his 1984 resembles other books of its

futuristic genre, Orwell read those books; it is possible that he and the other authors were simply drawing on the same body of literary conventions.

(D) A recent film that involves car chases, explosions, and clever villains is not necessarily directly influenced by other films of the action genre.

(E) A historical romance novel does not fit into its literary genre unless it employs certain kinds of conventions.

anyone interested in reviewing each other's personal statements, resumes, essays etc.? May be a good way to get ideas and also learn about schools you did not consider!

Hey y'all. I was hoping anyone could give me some advice or insight on how to pick a professor to write a letter of rec.

I had already picked my two professors for letters of rec and sent out emails to ask if they could write the letters for me. They are both professors that I was a research assistant for during my time in undergrad. They both got back to me and told me yes, however one of the professors wrote to me that I should also get letters of rec from professors who had me in their classes.

This completely stressed me out because I thought I had my letters of rec all figured out and done but now I'm spiraling and trying to figure out if it will look bad if my two letters of rec are from professors I did research with and were not in their classes.

So I guess overall my question is if it's okay if I have two strong letters of rec from professors I was a research assistant for (and they're both political science professors so within my major, and one of them is the dean of the social science department) or will it look bad that they're not professors who had me in their class.

Thanks!

Hello all! I've heard great things about this forum in my non-trad law school journey. I am 28 and wrapping up a PhD in Romance languages. My aim is to finish my degree in Spring 2026 and matriculate into a law program by that fall. I have thought about law over the years, but developed an interest in teaching & humanities research. But it's my research and experiences that have led me back to the legal world, especially anywhere that international, immigration and/or labor & employment law might intersect.

I had a meeting with a career services advisor (not pre-law) who was seriously concerned about my appearing to be a perpetual student when applying. She said I absolutely MUST get some kind of internship experience in immigration or international law before I apply in 2025 if I want to stand a chance for admission.

I have not fully "locked in" so to speak in securing that kind of position, but have a few contacts and programs in mind. I'm also considering how I can balance this with getting my research funded so I can wrap up my dissertation in time. My question is: how much am I jeopardizing my admissions prospects WITHOUT that specific internship experience, ex. if I got funded to research abroad? And will I truly be an irredeemable egghead in the case that I'm not able to land an internship?

Is the career switch (from academia to law) addendum-worthy, or is it something that can be adequately covered in the scope of a personal statement?

I'm fortunate enough to have several close faculty contacts from my undergrad institution. That said, I got my BA in 2018. Should I just focus on current faculty (like my dissertation committee) for LORs?

Thank you all!

Hi everyone,

When we ask recommenders to write recommendation letter, is there anything specific we should remind them to include?

In other words, is there anything law school admission must see in a recommendation letter?

P.S. I am out of school for 7 years already, so one letter will be from my manager (who is also a part time college professor), and the other letter will be from a attorney/mentor I work with (who is also an alumni for my dream school).

Thanks!

Hello everyone. Understanding that the undergraduate GPA is an extremely important factor in your application, I have a hard time viewing the strength of mine. I went to a strong liberal arts college that’s known to be very anti-grade inflation. They also don’t give out A+ grades. CAS gives credit to A+ grades and it seems a 3.72/4.00 GPA is at a disadvantage compared to many people who have it out of 4.33 with CAS conversion.

I’ve been told conflicting answers and now I’m even more confused. I would like to hear input to see where I am so I can put my worries to rest.

I've read a few discussions already regarding a vaguely similar situation, but just wanted some advice re my specific circumstance.

So, I completed my entire undergrad degree remotely and did not engage much with any of my professors. I could not pick any of them out of a lineup due to the asynchronous nature of online learning. Given this, I have considered asking a couple of my dual enrollment professors from my senior year of high school who know me quite well and could write a genuine LOR.

As for my third LOR, I was living in London and working full-time at PwC during my undergrad studies, so I am going to ask a colleague.

Any advice regarding this situation? Would an addendum do more harm than good? I.e., bring attention to my lack of relations with undergrad professors.

Really would like some clarification on this! I know this is what it's like with medical school, and even undergrad. Does this hold true for law schools? For example, let's say I'm an applicant from...Minnesota; will I be held to a much higher admissions standard applying somewhere like...University of New Mexico?

Hi, I recently got my score for the September 2023 LSAT (I just finished the writing section) and I am wondering if I should cancel it. I got a 165, however, I am retaking the test this August (2024) and again this September. I have recently been testing in the high 160's and low 170's and so I was wondering if I should cancel the 165 or just let it stay. I would really appreciate the advice!

.