HYS Addenda

tylerdschreur10

Alright guys, it's crunch time for me and HYS. I've been furiously reworking, editing, and tuning my PS for the big boys, and I think it's ready! The only thing preventing me from submitting my apps is whether or not to submit a GPA/LSAT addendum, and ewhich will help my cause more.

Background: 3.56 GPA from a highly-rated private college in Mechanical engineering, a very tough program where I was in the top 10 percent, but unfortunately my school does not keep records of class rankings, so I can't prove that I also had a very rough first semester (2.7) and very steady improvement for the next three years
I took the LSAT 3 times as some of you know, June '17: 170; Sept '17: 170; Dec '17: 176. I know Yale for sure is going to discredit my 176 slightly because of it being my third attempt, probably S and H slightly or not at all. I didn't have a meltdown or issues on first two takes, just improved gradually over months of study and my 10000 hours came thru in Dec, but I did score regularly in 175-178 range since June, so it was by no means a fluke.
Softs: nothing that will help my case. 2 years of WE in an unrelated field, a little volunteering

My question is if it could possibly do any harm to submit an addenda if it is well-founded and well-written, which I feel both are (I have written a separate addendum for each situation). I am worried that my GPA is prohibitively low, especially for Yale if they give any weight to my multiple LSATs. If I went to UofM and majored in anything other than astrophysics I'd have a 3.9 minimum, but can I convince admins?

I'm thinking the GPA addendum would be stronger and probably addresses a more apparent red-flag in my apps. Validation? Opinions? Advice? A Time machine??

Alex

You don't have a good reason to write an addendum for the LSAT. You could, however, write one noting your upward grade trend.

I wouldn't try to convince the admissions officers that you could have gotten a 3.9 "in anything other than astrophysics.." It sounds arrogant to assume such a thing and besides, schools know your major was likely very rigorous and will take that into consideration. Having an engineering major will definitely help you stand out and act as a nice soft factor for your app.

Best of luck at HYS!

Seeking Perfection

The GPA addendum seems more important. However, uou could do both. The goal is always going to be to keep them short and sweet.

I imagine the GPA one could be fairly brief. If you graduated top 10 percent, were you listed as graduating with honor or Cum Laude or some sort of engineering frat with a GPA threshold? At my school the top 14 percent are listed as graduating with honor. Normally, that is almost totally irrelevant, but in your case, it might be proof the GPA wasn't actually that bad. If there is no evidence like that, just explain that you didn't flinch from the challenge of a difficult undergraduate major, that you had an upward grade trajectory, and that you believe you could have had a better GPA, but would have been less prepared for the rigours of Law school if you had chosen a different major or something like that. Above all, be brief.

With the LSAT addendum, just explain that your practice scores were higher than your actual scores so you felt obligated to retake it in order to give yourself the best chance possible of being admitted into their institution. This probably won't help much so keep it short and undistracting from the rest of your app.

Good luck!

tylerdschreur10

@"Alex Divine" absolutely, the "astrophsyics" blurb was meant more as frustration with myself, i totally agree, would be futile and harmful to say anything like that to admissions! Thanks for the input, new I could count on you!

tylerdschreur10

@"Seeking Perfection" Some excellent advice, I was thinking somewhat along the same lines. Focusing on the upward trend, that way I don't fall into the trap of making up excuses for my poor performance first semester. Sadly my school didn't have academic frats, just partying ones :[ and the only graduation awards were for GPA thresholds, none with top X% requirements so I was Cum Laude, but all that means is above 3.5, which they already know.

I do like your suggestion to emphasize my willingness to challenge myself and meet said challenge! Thanks!

Alex

@tylerdschreur10 said:
@"Alex Divine" absolutely, the "astrophsyics" blurb was meant more as frustration with myself, i totally agree, would be futile and harmful to say anything like that to admissions! Thanks for the input, new I could count on you!

No doubt!

I think you have a great shot at H, and for Y & S, who knows!? With such a high LSAT and a rigorous major, I think you may end up pleasantly surprised. Keep your fingers crossed. I'll be here rooting for ya!

tylerdschreur10

@"Alex Divine" I keep going back and forth, being such a splitter makes it so hard to predict. I'm putting max effort into my apps and hoping my LSAT carries me! And at the end of the day, odds are I'll have $$$ at some t14 schools, which I'd probably have to take over Yale or Stanford at sticker anyway. But I just want to have that option!!! Plus serious negotiation capital for aid talks :l

When you pull a 177 in June maybe we'll see each other at Yale

calcal101

I think a GPA addendum could serve you well, but I think you want to be careful, too. For instance, you never know what the educational backgrounds of the admissions officers are--non-STEM folks often don't take super kindly to being told that STEM is just way harder than they could ever imagine (I say that jokingly…as a non-STEM person myself). Focus on the facts and your personal experience, especially your improvement, rather than the difficulty or rigor of the courses/your school. You might allude to developing stronger study habits or seeking out help from professors (especially fabulous if they're your letter writers). That said, if your classes were subjected to a harsh curve or you have any data on mean grades, provide it. My undergrad institution doesn't rank either, but I can get data on mean grades for every single class I took.

Alex

@tylerdschreur10 said:
@"Alex Divine" I keep going back and forth, being such a splitter makes it so hard to predict. I'm putting max effort into my apps and hoping my LSAT carries me! And at the end of the day, odds are I'll have $$$ at some t14 schools, which I'd probably have to take over Yale or Stanford at sticker anyway. But I just want to have that option!!! Plus serious negotiation capital for aid talks :l

When you pull a 177 in June maybe we'll see each other at Yale

Thanks! I can only hope, haha

pioneer321

@tylerdschreur10 are you me lol? Also got 176 on a retake (although my first test was lower than yours), and also with STEM undergrad punishing my GPA. I’m writing both the LSAT and GPA addenda, but until I have final drafts for both, I am not sure whether I will be submitting both.

Don’t really have a good reason for the early GPA dip, other than not wanting to drop the physics major while still trying to go out as much as all my friends who did not give a crap about their grades. I did have a really strong upward trend starting with my third year so that’s what I’m trying to highlight in the GPA addendum, along with changing my perspective on school work/ grades, not dropping to an easier program, etc.

My cumulative is just a tad higher, and for what it’s worth, I will be submitting Y/S applications even given near-zero chances of acceptance. Nothing you can do except apply, hope for the best, and see what happens. There is also nothing to do about those grades, but I would rather loose a couple hundred bucks, then wonder what if for years to come.

Good luck on your cycle man!

nicole.brooklyn

Anecdotally, I’ve heard of GPA addendums coming up in interviews. If you submit a GPA addendum and claim that your grades will be better in law school, be prepared to defend that assertion with some concrete reasons or, if applicable, actions you’ve taken since then. A friend listed depression as a reason his/her grades fell one semester, and his/her interviewer at a T14 school asked about it, first question: What’s changed? How can you be sure this won’t happen again? BTW, he/she was accepted to said school

tylerdschreur10

@"nicole.burdakin" said:
Anecdotally, I’ve heard of GPA addendums coming up in interviews. If you submit a GPA addendum and claim that your grades will be better in law school, be prepared to defend that assertion with some concrete reasons or, if applicable, actions you’ve taken since then. A friend listed depression as a reason his/her grades fell one semester, and his/her interviewer at a T14 school asked about it, first question: What’s changed? How can you be sure this won’t happen again? BTW, he/she was accepted to said school

Good to know, thanks! I feel like the evidence of my continual improvement for 3.5 years speaks for itself, but I'll definitely be ready to explain my improved study habits. For me a big thing was learning to ask questions, something I never had to do in high school, and I mention that in my addendum.

tylerdschreur10

@pioneer321 said:
@tylerdschreur10 are you me lol? Also got 176 on a retake (although my first test was lower than yours), and also with STEM undergrad punishing my GPA. I’m writing both the LSAT and GPA addenda, but until I have final drafts for both, I am not sure whether I will be submitting both.

Don’t really have a good reason for the early GPA dip, other than not wanting to drop the physics major while still trying to go out as much as all my friends who did not give a crap about their grades. I did have a really strong upward trend starting with my third year so that’s what I’m trying to highlight in the GPA addendum, along with changing my perspective on school work/ grades, not dropping to an easier program, etc.

My cumulative is just a tad higher, and for what it’s worth, I will be submitting Y/S applications even given near-zero chances of acceptance. Nothing you can do except apply, hope for the best, and see what happens. There is also nothing to do about those grades, but I would rather loose a couple hundred bucks, then wonder what if for years to come.

Good luck on your cycle man!

Hey doppelganger! Lol. My thoughts exactly, we could be the 5 percent that get accepted, so you gotta try!!

Curious if you applied already and heard back from any schools? I've been accepted at Michigan with solid aid, wondering what to expect from others. Pm me if you wanna swap numbers etc

pioneer321

@tylerdschreur10 said:

@pioneer321 said:
@tylerdschreur10 are you me lol? Also got 176 on a retake (although my first test was lower than yours), and also with STEM undergrad punishing my GPA. I’m writing both the LSAT and GPA addenda, but until I have final drafts for both, I am not sure whether I will be submitting both.

Don’t really have a good reason for the early GPA dip, other than not wanting to drop the physics major while still trying to go out as much as all my friends who did not give a crap about their grades. I did have a really strong upward trend starting with my third year so that’s what I’m trying to highlight in the GPA addendum, along with changing my perspective on school work/ grades, not dropping to an easier program, etc.

My cumulative is just a tad higher, and for what it’s worth, I will be submitting Y/S applications even given near-zero chances of acceptance. Nothing you can do except apply, hope for the best, and see what happens. There is also nothing to do about those grades, but I would rather loose a couple hundred bucks, then wonder what if for years to come.

Good luck on your cycle man!

Hey doppelganger! Lol. My thoughts exactly, we could be the 5 percent that get accepted, so you gotta try!!

Curious if you applied already and heard back from any schools? I've been accepted at Michigan with solid aid, wondering what to expect from others. Pm me if you wanna swap numbers etc

Tbh no, I haven’t yet, and it’s looking more and more like I will be applying for the following cycle. Long story short, I thought that I did way worse on the LSAT than I actually did, so instead of working on my apps throughout December like all the normal people, I started studying for another retake. I work full time and have a couple hours of commute each day on top of that so I couldn’t really do both. Now the work got even busier and the PS and the rest of the essays have been taking a lot longer than expected, so I might just apply in September for the following year. I think I’m ok with that since I wouldn’t actually mind working for another year. The only thing scaring me is the uncertainty with GRE impact on medians for next cycle, and the rise in the amount of LSAT takers. We will see though.

Michigan with $$ is already a great result, congrats on that! I’ll send you a link to my LSN if I do end up applying this year though. If you could send me your profile link, that would be really great; I’m now obviously really interested to see where you will end up.

westcoastbestcoast

I was under the impression that admissions officers generally like to see an upward trend in GPA? Anyways congratulations on the high LSAT score, and the massive improvement in your GPA. A 3.56 in mechanical engineering is respectable. Dont discount yourself for Yale. I believe a 161 lsat with a mid 3.0 GPA got accepted this cycle!

tylerdschreur10

Haha, that sounds like a good plan tho. Plus you'll be in an awesome position for 2019, LSAT dominated, plenty of time to put together some dynamite essays, and you can submit all your application on like september 5 and get max aid and admissions chances! Making me think about delaying myself...haha jk.

Sidenote, I really wouldn't worry much about GRE and increased testers. I think the impact of the GRE will take a few years to noticeably affect top schools, and what marginal impact there is will be on borderline applicants, not 177s

studyingandrestudying

These are excellent multiple LSATs and you could say you're very determined and the hard work paid off. Your major was a difficult one and they'll see that in the app; maybe your recommenders can highlight projects you did or something.

Sammie215

Hey there-- I'm in a similar boat and wrote a GPA addendum, but it's a risk you get to decide for yourself. Just wanted to also say that the school has access to the LSAC academic summary report, which sort of shows where you stack up to other people from your school in terms of GPA and LSAT score. I thought that was cool and definitely helps in my case to be able to point to it and say "look I'm average or above average at my school, don't penalize me for this". But that may mean you don't need to write an addendum! haha

tylerdschreur10

@Sammie215 said:
Hey there-- I'm in a similar boat and wrote a GPA addendum, but it's a risk you get to decide for yourself. Just wanted to also say that the school has access to the LSAC academic summary report, which sort of shows where you stack up to other people from your school in terms of GPA and LSAT score. I thought that was cool and definitely helps in my case to be able to point to it and say "look I'm average or above average at my school, don't penalize me for this". But that may mean you don't need to write an addendum! haha

I didn't realize academic summaries were that in-depth, that's great news! I'm planning to send in an addendum basically reiterating my upward trend and specifically outlining my altered study habits, but keeping it brief.

pioneer321

@westcoastbestcoast said:
I was under the impression that admissions officers generally like to see an upward trend in GPA? Anyways congratulations on the high LSAT score, and the massive improvement in your GPA. A 3.56 in mechanical engineering is respectable. Dont discount yourself for Yale. I believe a 161 lsat with a mid 3.0 GPA got accepted this cycle!

I know a guy from TLS got accepted with 161, but his gpa was 4.0 if I'm not mistaken. Plus AA URM with pretty incredible softs, and (in my opinion) fantastic essays. Regardless though, obviously shows that at least Y looks beyond the basic numbers, giving us splitters hope haha.

@tylerdschreur10 said:
Sidenote, I really wouldn't worry much about GRE and increased testers. I think the impact of the GRE will take a few years to noticeably affect top schools, and what marginal impact there is will be on borderline applicants, not 177s

Man... I sure hope so. I just don't want to be applying with a half-assed application, so if waiting an extra cycle is what's needed, than that's fine.

I wouldn't postpone if I was you though. Sounds like most of your apps went out before new year, and since HYS don't give out scholarships anyway, your actual chances there will not be impacted by applying later.