Getting really discouraged with the LG games setup, any advice?

JohnnyKarate

So I'm new to LG -- I've already done the first section regarding sequencing games, and I've foolproofed all 10 problem sets from that first section. I feel like I've got that down; then I moved onto to sequencing games w/ a twist (and double sequencing games) and whenever I come across a new game for the first time in the problem set, it takes me longer than it should (usually 3-5 mins) to get the game board set up, and then takes me a while to solve it.

I understand that through practicing and foolproofing that I can finish the game correctly in the target time it should take, however, I'm just getting really discouraged because I feel like I have to keep watching the video explanation for EVERY single game just to get it down.

I feel like at some point I should start to be able to solve these games on my own without needing to watch the video explanations.
When did you guys get to the point that you could come across a new game and solve it efficiently? I know I'm just starting out, but it's just tough when it keeps taking me longer than it should to get the games solved. Any success stories?

Habeas Porpoise

Hey there!

(Edit: Oops, realized I'd need to include an obligatory wall-of-text warning. Sorry, this got wordy, lol!)

I understand your worry, but honestly, 3-5 minutes is completely normal. Depending on the game I'd even say that's fast, especially since you're just starting out. I mean, this stuff is new and it's okay to spend more time when learning it -- I wouldn't worry about how long you're taking to set up the board and finish the game just yet, you can do plenty of that when PTing.
As for target times, I believe they're there as benchmarks for when you're further in your prep and comfortable with games. I vividly remember going through the CC and there were games where I'd taken 25 minutes to complete (with tons of brute-forcing), only to see that the target-times were around 10 minutes. Likewise there were other games that had target times of ~5 minutes and I was still missing questions after taking 8+ minutes to complete them. I remember thinking at the time, "I'm screwed. Totally screwed," but now I'm well under the target time during PTs. So again, I wouldn't worry for now. Just think of it as exposure to certain types of games. It's okay if you have to watch each video a bunch of times.

For what it's worth, LG was my worst section on my diagnostic. I got -14 after brute-forcing the first two games, and I'd even seen them before! I tried solving the remaining two during BR but just couldn't figure it out and ended up bailing.
After the CC, I felt generally comfortable solving games -- I could set up the board, make at least some of the major assumptions, and answer questions. But I was most definitely not efficient, I was crazy slow. I still could barely get through two and a half, three games when PT-ing, and my speed with LG on PTs was consistently awful until I was well through FPing PTs 1-35 about 3 months after finishing the CC. At some point during that process I realized I no longer really needed to think about what type of game I was handling -- I just reacted to what I was reading in the stimulus. With FPing and exposure to a ton of games of each "type" my speed naturally improved and I was more efficient. My overall average on LG is about -2. Still, I've gotten thrown of by the occasional tough miscellaneous game and am sometimes pressed for time with a difficult LG section. Actually, just recently on my last test (PT80) I completely screwed up my time distribution and had less than 3 minutes for the last game. I couldn't wrap my head around the game so I ended up marking C for the last 5 questions. I was solid with the other three games, and I ended up going -5 across the section despite completely screwing up the last one. I most definitely wouldn't have been able to do that earlier in my prep, I'd likely have gotten half the section wrong.

All that said, this is what I did when going through the CC (and even when FPing) -- maybe you'll find it useful:
1. Try the game on your own before watching the video. If you get through it, great, now watch the video and see how JY does it. Why did he use the board(s) he did -- why did you use yours? What are assumptions you missed? Does he tackle the questions more efficiently (honing in on certain answer choices)? How so?
2. If you get stuck on a question, skip it and finish whatever you can. Then watch the video. If your board is the same, great, keep watching the video and see how he tackles the questions you're struggling on. If it's different, try and redo the questions you got stuck on with the new board before proceeding. Again, at the end, analyze what you did well and what you could improve on.
3. If you get stuck while making the board, watch the video but stop before JY gets into the questions. Using the board and assumptions, try and answer the questions on your own. Then watch the video to confirm. Again, analyze what part of the questions clued you in on the board setup. Were there assumptions you missed that prevented you from solving the board? Did you misinterpret a rule?
Again, I wouldn't worry about speed when going through the CC. Focus on developing a solid understanding of the concepts. If that means watching the same video multiple times, that's perfectly fine.

I'm not sure if I've answered your question exactly, or have given you a particularly inspiring success story or anything, but I just wanted to say that I've been there with feeling frustrated and feeling like I'd never get LG. Now I genuinely look forward to the LG section. I honestly believe that foolproofing will get you to a solid score if you keep at it. Be patient with yourself, keep up the hard work, and you'll definitely get more efficient with some time and practice.

FixedDice

I know I'm just starting out, but it's just tough when it keeps taking me longer than it should to get the games solved. Any success stories?

I believe those suggested times are for those who are (1) done with CC and (2) scoring 170+ in most (if not all) PTs. I fail to see why you are in such a hurry (unless you are registered for the upcoming June or July administration, in which case it makes absolutely perfect sense). Like you mentioned and know, you are just starting out. Of course it is going to take some time. Don't rush it; focus on building good habits, worry about timing later.

it takes me longer than it should (usually 3-5 mins) to get the game board set up

Besides, this sounds like a perfectly reasonable length of time for creating game boards.

Seeking Perfection

@"trevor.sikes" said:
So I'm new to LG -- I've already done the first section regarding sequencing games, and I've foolproofed all 10 problem sets from that first section. I feel like I've got that down; then I moved onto to sequencing games w/ a twist (and double sequencing games) and whenever I come across a new game for the first time in the problem set, it takes me longer than it should (usually 3-5 mins) to get the game board set up, and then takes me a while to solve it.

I understand that through practicing and foolproofing that I can finish the game correctly in the target time it should take, however, I'm just getting really discouraged because I feel like I have to keep watching the video explanation for EVERY single game just to get it down.

I feel like at some point I should start to be able to solve these games on my own without needing to watch the video explanations.
When did you guys get to the point that you could come across a new game and solve it efficiently? I know I'm just starting out, but it's just tough when it keeps taking me longer than it should to get the games solved. Any success stories?

I started out pretty bad at logic games. If it is discouraging, you don't need to foolproof the games during the CC. Foolproof 1-35 right after the CC. The games in the CC don't really need to get you to scoring in the recommended time limit. They just need to show you the basic idea for solving each game type. It is the tons of reps and exposure to the logic games explantion videos provided by foolproofing 1-35 which help cure timing issues and refine your ability to do games quicker and more efficiently.

It took me about halfway through foolproofing 1-35 to be able to sometimes get through a whole section of 4 games. The basic sequencing games I learned quicker because by the first time I finished a four game section I was usually doing the sequencing game types faster than recommended and the grouping more slowly. By the end of foolproofing 1-35 I was finishing about 3 out of every 4 game sections of 4 games the first time. With more foolproofing that got even better, but I was still glad to finish the section on my retake in September where I went -1 on games.

So in conclusion, don't worry about being slower than the recommended time the first time on a game until you have finished foolproofing tests 1-35. You will likely get it inside that window, but if you don't, just keep foolproofing.

ElleWoods77

I started out taking around 30 minutes for some games , after foolproofing 1-35 I can get most games under the the target time. Around the halfway point of foolproofing , I noticed a difference when I tried to make inferences on my own rather than relying on JY to tell me what to do. It gets better . Practice, practice, and more practice is the way to go. I definitely intend continue to expose myself to many more games.