How much is too much for Prestige?

sxe51033

Hi there-

I'm looking for as much feedback as possible, and after having a great experience with LSAT prep on 7sage a couple years ago, I figured I would post about my predicament here.

I was accepted to Georgetown Law this cycle and it's the only school I applied to this cycle. I have a 168/3.2. Between personal savings, college fund savings, and a small $30k total scholarship, my total debt at graduation would be $215k (including interest in all these numbers).

Goals are Big Law in NYC, or any east coast city at least initially. Long term, maybe in-house somewhere.

My option is either go to Georgetown this fall, or re-apply next cycle to other schools. Last cycle I had acceptances to Fordham, BC, BU and WUSTL. All four would've costed around $120-135k. Like a lot of us, I think I've gotten fixated on prestige. My question is, is Georgetown worth an additional $90k compared to these schools?

Added a poll to make it easy

Edit: Those numbers are total COA, so including living as well in that. Just clarifying in case. Also, I should note I have a job in NYC currently at a mid-size professional services/consulting firm and I'm two years out of undergrad. So, I'm not on my couch collecting dust if I wait, but also don't love what I do by any means.

Lawster9

Fordham and BU have pretty good stats for BigLaw (40% vs Georgetown's 54%). I'm pretty debt averse, so I would probably go for the 130k options. However, in truth, I would probably see what type of full rides I could get with a 168 Check it out here: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/gulc/fordham/bu/

Also, how much does waiting a year matter to you? Lastly, I'm sure you will have a good outcome whatever you choose. Best of luck!

hawaiihi

I really think it depends on your goals. If you wanted to do something international-related, for example, or to work in politics, I'd say GULC. But for BigLaw, it does seem like Fordham and BU have good BigLaw outcomes.

They also have a leg-up over Georgetown in terms of geographic location if you don't want to end up in DC----- tons of BU grads work in Boston, and Fordham has good NYC connections. There's also the added perk that if you are already going to school in that city, you already have housing for summer internships in that city. (I.e. imagine you go to Georgetown but want to do summer work in NYC---- you'll have to add the cost of summer housing for a few months in NYC to your cost of living.)

I think you also should be aware that you may not get the same amount of money if you reapply to those schools at which you previously received scholarships. At the same time, with a little more work experience, you could end up getting even more money at those places or scholarships at good schools elsewhere. I'd say reapply, but you have to weigh your own pros and cons.

Good luck!

Better every day

@sxe51033 said:
Hi there-

I'm looking for as much feedback as possible, and after having a great experience with LSAT prep on 7sage a couple years ago, I figured I would post about my predicament here.

I was accepted to Georgetown Law this cycle and it's the only school I applied to this cycle. I have a 168/3.2. Between personal savings, college fund savings, and a small $30k total scholarship, my total debt at graduation would be $215k (including interest in all these numbers).

Goals are Big Law in NYC, or any east coast city at least initially. Long term, maybe in-house somewhere.

My option is either go to Georgetown this fall, or re-apply next cycle to other schools. Last cycle I had acceptances to Fordham, BC, BU and WUSTL. All four would've costed around $120-135k. Like a lot of us, I think I've gotten fixated on prestige. My question is, is Georgetown worth an additional $90k compared to these schools?

Added a poll to make it easy

Edit: Those numbers are total COA, so including living as well in that. Just clarifying in case. Also, I should note I have a job in NYC currently at a mid-size professional services/consulting firm and I'm two years out of undergrad. So, I'm not on my couch collecting dust if I wait, but also don't love what I do by any means.

NYC Big Law is certainly attainable from any of the schools you listed if you do well. However, I don't think it is unreasonable to pay an extra $90k to get into a T14 school.

drbrown2

Factor in delayed earnings by pushing back the decision 1 extra year. For me that would put GT ahead of other partial scholarship offers. If you get started in biglaw a year earlier you are that far ahead in paying back the loans. Good luck

Adam Hawks

Oh my God! I'm stunned by the people who say that G-Town is worth $215k. That's absurd because G-Town has larger classes and there is absolutely no guarantee that you'll be near the top of your class to qualify for scholarships. The fact that they want you to pay them means they're appealing to your ego and know that you and others are lambs for the lions.

I would wait, apply for early decision to WUSTL, and get your law school fully funded. Georgetown is not worth it for 200k.

sxe51033

@"Adam Hawks" said:
Oh my God! I'm stunned by the people who say that G-Town is worth $215k. That's absurd because G-Town has larger classes and there is absolutely no guarantee that you'll be near the top of your class to qualify for scholarships. The fact that they want you to pay them means they're appealing to your ego and know that you and others are lambs for the lions.

I would wait, apply for early decision to WUSTL, and get your law school fully funded. Georgetown is not worth it for 200k.

This is the direction I am leaning to be honest. I don't think G-town at $215k is awful. But, I think going somewhere for much 90-100k less seems more logical. I redid the math for Fordham and I think if I were able to obtain the same scholarship as last year (40k per year) and factor in my savings, it would cost $95k. Given that, it is becoming very hard to imagine Gtown is worth 2.5x more. A big part of this is that I am a NY'er and NY is my goal, so maybe national portability isn't necessary?

Gtown is so tricky because they place 60% into big law+fc, but how much is self selection for Gov/PI. When I was at ASW a lot of people were only interested in those outcomes. It could be 10% choosing to go into the public sector etc. With that said, they aren't recession proof and had around 40% placement for big law+fc in 2011. And we probably have a recession coming soon, which is what scares me with taking on that debt the most.

sxe51033

@"Better every day" said:

@sxe51033 said:
Hi there-

I'm looking for as much feedback as possible, and after having a great experience with LSAT prep on 7sage a couple years ago, I figured I would post about my predicament here.

I was accepted to Georgetown Law this cycle and it's the only school I applied to this cycle. I have a 168/3.2. Between personal savings, college fund savings, and a small $30k total scholarship, my total debt at graduation would be $215k (including interest in all these numbers).

Goals are Big Law in NYC, or any east coast city at least initially. Long term, maybe in-house somewhere.

My option is either go to Georgetown this fall, or re-apply next cycle to other schools. Last cycle I had acceptances to Fordham, BC, BU and WUSTL. All four would've costed around $120-135k. Like a lot of us, I think I've gotten fixated on prestige. My question is, is Georgetown worth an additional $90k compared to these schools?

Added a poll to make it easy

Edit: Those numbers are total COA, so including living as well in that. Just clarifying in case. Also, I should note I have a job in NYC currently at a mid-size professional services/consulting firm and I'm two years out of undergrad. So, I'm not on my couch collecting dust if I wait, but also don't love what I do by any means.

NYC Big Law is certainly attainable from any of the schools you listed if you do well. However, I don't think it is unreasonable to pay an extra $90k to get into a T14 school.

So I re-did some math using access lex for Fordham as an example. If I were to get the same offer as last year (big if) it would be roughly $95k. So it would be $120k more for Georgetown. Do you still think it is worth that much more? Just curious if the difference of $120 to $90k would change people's opinions on it. It's a pretty close debate right now based on the poll.

drbrown2

@sxe51033 said:
So I re-did some math using access lex for Fordham as an example. If I were to get the same offer as last year (big if) it would be roughly $95k. So it would be $120k more for Georgetown. Do you still think it is worth that much more? Just curious if the difference of $120 to $90k would change people's opinions on it. It's a pretty close debate right now based on the poll.

If it was Georgetown at $215k based on your calculations versus a full ride at a school that can place you into NY biglaw, then the decision is pretty easy. If the difference is $120k then it is less clear only because you would have to delay a year since Georgetown is the only school you applied to. You've clearly thought this through and calculated COA for various schools, but you wouldn't really know unless you committed to applying at the beginning of next cycle and applied to a broader range of schools. If you retake the LSAT and bump your score up a couple of points you will have a ton of great offers next cycle. You may benefit from early applications next cycle and have an offer more attractive than the Georgetown one. Unfortunately all those options involve a 1 year delay. If you wait you should spend the next 4-5 months doing everything you can to improve your candidacy and get yourself a full scholarship at a school that places well in NYC.

Leah M B

I second pretty much everything @hawaiihi said above. If your goal is NYC biglaw, Fordham or BU with generous scholarships would be great decisions. GULC only makes sense to me if you want to go into PI/government, or DC biglaw. And honestly, I don't think $215k is a good price for it for anyone. But especially not if you want to get back to NYC. I vote that you take a year, maybe try upping your LSAT if you think that is possible, and apply early to Fordham and BU in particular. BU has a full tuition binding early decision which might be a great option for you. I will say, since you are a splitter, your cycles will always be a bit on the unpredictable side. If you reapply next year, it will have been 2 years since you got your previous offers from those schools. Medians have been on the rise, and there's a chance you won't get the same offers. I think it's smart for splitters in particular to cast a wide net and apply a good number of places. If you have the means, I'd say you should apply to BC, BU, Fordham, Cardozo, WUSTL, Vanderbilt, Cornell (shoot your shot!), GULC, GW... basically anything east coast T50ish. It's awesome that you got into GULC and you should be very proud of that. But I think the $215k in debt is not worth it - you could have a good shot at biglaw for significantly less than that.

Better every day

@sxe51033 said:

@"Better every day" said:

@sxe51033 said:
Hi there-

I'm looking for as much feedback as possible, and after having a great experience with LSAT prep on 7sage a couple years ago, I figured I would post about my predicament here.

I was accepted to Georgetown Law this cycle and it's the only school I applied to this cycle. I have a 168/3.2. Between personal savings, college fund savings, and a small $30k total scholarship, my total debt at graduation would be $215k (including interest in all these numbers).

Goals are Big Law in NYC, or any east coast city at least initially. Long term, maybe in-house somewhere.

My option is either go to Georgetown this fall, or re-apply next cycle to other schools. Last cycle I had acceptances to Fordham, BC, BU and WUSTL. All four would've costed around $120-135k. Like a lot of us, I think I've gotten fixated on prestige. My question is, is Georgetown worth an additional $90k compared to these schools?

Added a poll to make it easy

Edit: Those numbers are total COA, so including living as well in that. Just clarifying in case. Also, I should note I have a job in NYC currently at a mid-size professional services/consulting firm and I'm two years out of undergrad. So, I'm not on my couch collecting dust if I wait, but also don't love what I do by any means.

NYC Big Law is certainly attainable from any of the schools you listed if you do well. However, I don't think it is unreasonable to pay an extra $90k to get into a T14 school.

So I re-did some math using access lex for Fordham as an example. If I were to get the same offer as last year (big if) it would be roughly $95k. So it would be $120k more for Georgetown. Do you still think it is worth that much more? Just curious if the difference of $120 to $90k would change people's opinions on it. It's a pretty close debate right now based on the poll.

I think anything over 100k would be starting to push it for me, but it ultimately depends on your goals. If you are focused strictly on getting into any nyc biglaw firm and then moving in house, I would say go to Fordham as long as you are confident that you can do fairly well there. You don’t have to absolutely kill it, but you should be looking to be around top 25-30% of the class if you want to be in a good spot for biglaw. Fordham has a strong alumni network in the nyc area and many are willing to help.

I personally would probably just wait and reapply if I were you. Cast a wide net like others are saying and reevaluate your options. You don’t seem like you are set on Georgetown and I don’t think you should take on that much debt unless you are absolutely thrilled to be going to that school. Also 168 is obviously a great score, but if you think there is any way you can squeeze out a couple more points, you should take again. The July test might be a great option for you because of the ability to cancel after viewing your score.

FoolProofFun

If your goal is to reach biglaw, I think you have to put aside fears of debt and make a decision that best serves that goal. Obviously no one wants to be in debt with no job, but GULC does provide a generally accepted biglaw hiring advantage over BU/Fordham. If you save the money but don't get biglaw, are you going to be happy that you planned for the possibility of failure? Or are you going to wish you had had a little more firepower to climb into a $190,000 career cockpit? Fordham and BU are strong schools in great cities. If you don't get biglaw, you can probably work your way into a comfortable role there, especially Fordham since it sounds like you're focused on NYC. Given your goals, I'd say Fordham is probably the close second if not a tie with GULC because it has the regional strength (in addition to national hiring strength it will afford its top graduates) in the city that you like. I think folks are correct in warning that the prestige of GULC can be overblown. But I don't think you are "caring too much about prestige." I think you're using prestige as a rough indicator of biglaw opportunity (which, statistically, it is). Whether the extra opportunity is worth the money is a personal decision.