7Sage + The Trainer

jimenezja.jj

Hey,
Is anyone doing a 7sage course and using the LSAT trainer book? If so, how is that working for you?

Nilesh S

Plenty of people... @amanda_kw @emli1000 ... @alexroark5 @nicole.hopkins ... I used it when I was prepping... they complement each other well and in my view are a great combination.

amanda_kw

Yes. 7Sage is fantastic for formal logic and help understanding individual questions. I also like 7Sage's method for games over the LSAT Trainer. But the Trainer is great for honing your intuition and seeing the big picture - which helps both with seeing the argument in LR and getting through RC. So it's working well! They definitely complement each other.

DumbHollywoodActor

I also love the checklist-like process that LSAT Trainer has for each of the different types of LR questions. It’s very helpful.

shine.on.me

I am also using both 7Sage and The Trainer. I prefer 7Sage's LG methods and to a certain extent their LR. But they complement each other well. I am also planning on supplementing the Manhattan LR book. I haven't received it yet but it has been ordered. I am hopeful it won't confuse me.

harrismegan

I've used the Trainer for Flaw and for RC. Life saver for both. Worth it to me.

mes08

Just started reading the Trainer last week. Same as @harrismegan, I'm using it for Flaw and RC. So far it's great and as others have mentioned, compliments 7sage well.

nicole.hopkins

@jimenezja.jj I started on the Trainer so I prefer its method for LG ( @amanda_kw and others think I'm a weirdo for my use of triangles in subset/pattern games but it's become quite second nature for me! And I think charts are kinda weird, just sayin' ). Otherwise, very compatible. However, I did not find that I had nearly equivalent training in logic as did those who started with/completed 7sage, so I would say that is unequivocally a strength of 7sage over Trainer (and probably anything else, including Manhattan).

If I were to design a curriculum, I would introduce students to certain concepts (e.g., flaws) via the LSAT Trainer and to other concepts (logic, several categories of LR questions) via 7sage. That is to say, I find them thoroughly compatible, complementary, and they go together very well!

emli1000

It goes so well with 7Sage. I really like how it breaks up the flaw question types. I've seen so much improvement since I read those 3 chapters in the trainer.

jimenezja.jj

Thanks, for all the comments everyone. I just received my book today. I'll keep you posted on my progress

nicole.hopkins

I'm really happy I started with the Trainer, but it's 7sage that's smoothing it all over, making it all sink in. That and lovely lovely BR groups and LSAT friends ... :'-)

I learn best from books/text to start with (always excited when a 7sage lesson starts with something I can digest from text -> outline) but I know some folks learn best from lectures. I was a German major (Program in Aesthetics/Media) and about 80% of my classes were seminars with ≤10 people (many with 3-5)—heavily text- based.

In other words ...

inactive

J.Y. speaks highly of the Trainer if that means anything.

nicole.hopkins

@"Dillon A. Wright" that means EVERYTHING! And Mike Kim loves on 7sage too, just sayin'...one big happy LSAT family.

inactive

@nicole.hopkins said:
that means EVERYTHING! And Mike Kim loves on 7sage too, just sayin'...one big happy LSAT family.

nicole.hopkins

Haha! Exactly!!

bobalicious

http://7sage.com/get-the-lsat-trainer/

J.Y. Ping

Thanks @bobalicious. I wrote that a while ago and it's still true.

Did you guys notice The Trainer's new cover? There's a palindrome on it. This is entirely consistent with the amount of thought and care and subtlety that Mike puts into his craft.

Even if you are currently enrolled in 7Sage, I still recommend that you get the Trainer. The reason is because it's a work that I deeply respect. There's a whole sea of scammers and copycats in the LSAT prep business and Mike is the real deal. (It makes me irate that people / companies are taking advantage of you to make a quick buck.) You'll learn something new from looking at the LSAT from Mike's unique perspective. There's a another thread here that talks about Manhattan v. The Trainer and from what I know of it, The Trainer is better because Mike wrote the Manhattan books and after that he obtained 5 years of LSAT teaching experience and beast mode and then he wrote The Trainer. I have not read the Manhattan books.

Full disclosure, 7Sage gets $0 from endorsing The Trainer. If anything it might even hurt our sales if someone buys the Trainer and decides that they don't want to get 7Sage. I'm endorsing The Trainer because it will help you.

R.I.P. fish.

DumbHollywoodActor

@"J.Y. Ping" notes like this are why you're the best, but, dude, in all seriousness, you keep some crazy hours. I want to buy you a bottle of melatonin.

mike

The respect is mutual, and if I have another child, boy or girl, I'm seriously considering naming it Ping Kim.

A couple of things I want to note --

1) If you notice the date of J.Y.'s original post, it was well before The Trainer became known/accepted by a mass audience. In fact, he initially started supporting my work before we had ever talked, and he didn't do it to create an alliance or promote his own agenda -- he did it because he thought The Trainer would be useful to his students.

2) Before getting to know 7Sage, I was very skeptical of online recorded courses -- I was against them when I was at Manhattan, and I even wrote an article on The Trainer website telling students to beware of them.

But then J.Y. said he liked The Trainer so of course I had to say I like 7Sage.

No, just kidding --

7Sage has changed my mind and shown me that I was totally wrong. I'm genuinely blown away by what 7Sage is able to offer its students, and the amount of benefit that students are getting from 7Sage is abundantly clear.

And I hope you all don't mind me getting a bit serious and personal for a moment, but I have one other thing I want to mention --

I have a very simple and clear opinion about the purpose of my career. My goal is to play as positive and significant a role as a can in the lives of other people, and I'm constantly trying to figure out the best way that I can do that. That's why I created The Trainer.

My competitors might find that statement nauseatingly cheesy,but it's the truth, and I know that my sense of purpose is the most important ingredient in any success I've ever had.

There is only one other major company I've encountered in the LSAT industry that shares this sense of purpose, and it is 7Sage. J.Y. and Alan are immensely talented people who are committed to playing a positive role in the lives of their students, and because of this they have my deepest respect and support.

Julia L

The Trainer also gives you wonderful practical strategies to use under timed conditions, all throughout the book. There are different "hats" to put on for the different types of question, and you don't want to spend energy using the wrong skills for a particular task. E.g. thinking critically about arguments for weaken/strengthen/flaw questions/etc. vs. identifying argument structure for main point/match reasoning/argument in part/etc. That's just one example. The Trainer is packed with strategies that have really helped me put the LSAT into perspective, both fundamentals and how to prepare for actual test day. 7sage is so thorough in content and execution of logic, but the Trainer helps you take a step back and look at the LSAT as a whole.

These two learning tools together have been phenomenal to my learning process. Sure for the LSAT, but also really beneficial for clarifying and strengthening my thinking in general

pseudonymous

I am working through The Trainer as well, and my gosh, this thread is a dream come true. I fantasize about J.Y. and Mike having an LSAT baby designing the penultimate prep course together, in a totally-not creepy... okay-maybe-a-little-bit creepy kind of way.

But using the book alongside the course is pretty sweet as it is. :-) #LSATDreamTeam ftw

Also, I'm glad the cover change got mentioned! The "MikekiM" thing is so enormously clever, but the little orange fish was so darn adorable too.

inactive

Mike and J.Y. blowing kisses at each other in this thread; I love it.

GSU Hopeful

I am ANXIOUSLY awaiting the arrival of my copy of The Trainer tomorrow. I'm in the middle of a preptest and blind review, but will jump on it as soon as I finish up with it. How long of a read is it?

nicole.hopkins

@"GSU Hopeful" I recommend using one of Mike's study guides posted on the LSAT Trainer website. Perhaps the DIY guide found here.

msoliviaj

Thank you everyone - just ordered the Trainer. Now I need to carve time for 7Sage and the Trainer .. (that's a challenge) but Im willing and able - need those points!!!

GSU Hopeful

My copy finally arrived and I have one... probably irrational...question. I feel as though I have a really solid grasp on the LG. I know I can get better, but I am averaging -3 to -5 on the timed sections. I am somewhat worried about reading through the LG section of the Trainer for fear of it confusing me with the grasp I already have. For those who have done 7Sage and the Trainer, is this a possibility or will the Trainer only serve to enhance the understanding that I already have? Thanks!

Alejandro

For LG just stick with one of the two. They are not as complimentary as LR and LC. At least that's what I would do!

nicole.hopkins

@"GSU Hopeful" I started with the Trainer for LG and while I do a few things differently than those who started with 7sage, you might find a few strategies that work better for you in the Trainer. For instance, using shapes for pattern/subtype games

GSU Hopeful

I have another trivial question regarding using the trainer and 7Sage together. In almost all the study schedules that Mike uses, questions from the later tests are used for drilling. Isn't it advisable to save those tests for later and keep them "pristine". Would it be acceptable to sub in the problem sets that Sage uses or is Mike selecting those certain problems for a reason? I guess what I am getting at is not wanting to ruin those later tests but if I'm only doing certain problems from them, is that really a risk?

nicole.hopkins

@"GSU Hopeful" Word—Not a problem at all. Just drill from the 29–35 range (per Mike's schedules) and/or 7sage drill sets. He's just selecting them by question type.

GSU Hopeful

Gotcha. Thanks.

emli1000

@"GSU Hopeful" I would follow JY's method on LG. It seems to be more clear to me and I also did not want to get confused. If you continue working through LGs they'll become easier with practice since every game type has an identical twin.

nicole.hopkins

@emli1000 some methods work better for others ...

emli1000

@nicole.hopkins of course everyone works different but that was my suggestion sinceI was also in the same boat of not wanting to confuse what I already knew through 7Sage.

GSU Hopeful

I just wanted to post a positive note about The Trainer (found 0 negative things). I have finished the first nine lessons and it seems that the correct answer to flaws are just jumping out at me after these lessons compared to earlier. Combining this with JY's lessons have helped immensely to understanding these questions.

emli1000

@"GSU Hopeful" Hey PM me your email so I can send you my notes on Flaws.

jimenezja.jj

So I'm up to the logic game section in the trainer and I feel it's going to confuse me if i use their techniques( subsets) what to do just skip this part? @nicole.hopkins

Jsohn001

I was having a tough time going through several of the flaw sets on 7sage. It was all over the place. The advice I took from @"J.Y. Ping" by supplementing them into the course made a drastic improvement. They go hand-in-hand. Don't be stingy and spend the extra $40 on it. It will do wonders to your score. I'm coming from 136 to high 150s now and still working through it. I even decided to cancel my June 2015 to October on the measure of confidence through both courses combined. Thanks J.Y Ping and Mike Kim for the excellent advice so far.

nicole.hopkins

I love the way LSAT Trainer does subsets. Try it out and see what you think—you're not going to lose anything in so doing. It's just an alternate way of diagramming—and you might find that one method or the other works best for you. @jimenezja.jj