How many times should you take the test before giving up?

olddog40

Quite embarassed to post this but I do need some third party unbiased opinion/view. and I am quite desparate..... so here it goes. I took the Dec. LSAT my 3rd time taking this test. First was in 2011(took classes at PowerScore) - Cancelled, 2nd was 6/2012 - 150 (Iself studied) , this time around I used the paid 7sage course. - 149! I took baout 20- PT, averaging 158... the last 2 weeks I had score ranges between 158-161. [Been working full time 50hrs/week the entire time/I do not suffer from test anxiety

Though this is more than 10 years ago, I scored 1270 on my SAT, took several AP Classes in high school (History, Calculus I, English) and did mediocre (3.6) at a state school (my major was easy - Business Administration and Finance). - so I dont think I am retarded... but my LSAT scores obviously scream so.

Is the LSAT really an aptitude test?
Anyone taken the LSAT multiple times with little or no improvement?
Does LSAT REALLY measure your success in lawschool?

Any thoughts opinion/though welcome.
Thanking you in advance - desoarate old dog.

LSATisland

Do you mean giving up on retaking the LSAT or law school?

olddog40

On getting a "decent" LSAT score, which would allow me to attend a top 100 school

courtneydkaras

Keep at it! Don't give up if its really something you dream of doing. I'm about to take the LSAT for the second time and if it sucks I'll take it again. No shame.

LSATisland

A large part of LSAT improvement is review and repetition. Logic Games, specifically, is comprised of basic structures and mechanics that need repetition to become natural. This takes plenty of time. If, as you say, your work exhausts most of your time, that might be the issue to deal with.

Llaima01

Don't ever give up! I am a foreigner who always dreamed of studying law. I am now in my 40s and I have for the first time encountered logic games and arguments. I have basically started from scratch...literally. I work at it EVERY DAY for MANY hours at a time and I have seen tremendous improvement...it does not happen overnight but it does happen. I am taking the exam in February and if I do not get my score, I will take it again in June. Going to law school is my goal and I will accomplish it...there is no better country than this one to do so and there are no better materials than 7Sage's. (I have tried them all). If I can do it with English as my second language, YOU CAN. Don't ever give up.

Madpanda

You should not give up.. Do not forget.. there is always a bright side.. You can apply with your LSAT score of 149 for this year.. do VERY well your first year and transfer to a top 100 school your second year. There are always options.

Rasheed N.

If you don't mind me asking, what did you get per section? That would be more helpful to see what needs working and whether or not there could be improvement.

Bob Lee Swagger

Urflian225 speaks the truth.

If you are truly over the LSAT...which someone can always 'Retake'...but if you are really over it...get some amazing Letters of Rec...good resume..and apply at a large amount of schools. YOU said Top 100...so what I would do....I go to LSAC...add ANY school you would not mind studying at...regardless if they are inside the Top 100, or outside the Top 100 (Stetson in Tampa is a great school and places very well in Florida.) Next, look at their LSAC page....most will show you the GPA and test score of applicants being admitted. If you notice there are probably 30-40 schools inside the Top 100 that have accepted someone within the 149 group range.... (don't forget, 149 is just below average...so just about half test takers got that score or lower...) If your Application is solid...you may get into a few inside the Top 100...but probably pay full price....BUT YOU GOT IN. Also, the transfer game is wide open nowadays within law school. Read more about it. It is how a lot of law schools are upping their revenues and students are able to get in a better school if they choose to go through applying again. LSAT is typically not looked at...so kill your first year and beastmode into somewhere.

iiiSpoon

I have not read everything on this page but here is something that will, hopefully, give you confidence in yourself.

I know of a person (actually he is my brother's friend) and he received an LSAT score in the mid 150's (I believe), and that was his best score after I believe 3 or 4 takes. However, he graduated law school top 3 in his year and now is a successful lawyer working for a huge company.

In his opinion, the LSAT was harder than law school.

TLDR; LSAT is lame and it is not a comprehensive aptitude test.

PS: I think the stress of studying for the LSAT is making me lose hair.

mrlsat180

You're ranging 158-161 on PTs while working for 50 hours a week and you say you "don't think you are retarded?!" A 160 places you in the top 20% of a HIGHLY motivated group which is very impressive! Also I don't think a 3.6 would be considered "mediocre".
A 3.6 160 easily gets you into top 50 minimum let alone top 100, although probably not with a significant scholarship. I'm really not sure what your problem is here.

kindasaurous661

olddog40

Thank you everyone for the kind words.
@mrlsat180 - the problem is that never score that 159-161 on the REAL test, always -10 from the PTs. I believe it may be stamina issue, I always score the worst on the last section.

@TackyTrackSuit - I work with a bunch of lawyers and they say that the LSAT is harder than the bar exam (NY). May I ask where your friend went to school? (No specifics but, TT, T-14?)

@Rasheed N - This time around the RC. I got -15. From a few years ago, I have been reading the Economist religiously on a weekly basis (I actually love it now).

@urlflian225 & @ Bob Lee Swagger - I actually applied with my 150 last year and I was waitlisted, and never got in at the school of my choice (a state school). Due to financial reasons, transferring from another school to that school really isn't an option for me right now.

Though with a late registration fee, I will sign up for Feb. and see how that goes. If not I will do it again may be in June/Oct. - but I will make that my last shot.

Thank you again everyone.

olddog40

@ Bob Lee Swagger - I actually got a pretty good resume, rec. letters....... but still got waitlisted last year and didn't get in. Actually I have been advised AGAINST betting on transferring as it is very hard to predict how well/bad you do in your first year.

@Llaima01 - Good for you! I admire your motivation and perseverance.

Rasheed N.

And on LR and LG? Seems like you're struggling a lot on the RC. What's your strategy for marking up the passages?

iiiSpoon

@ olddog40 : Truthfully, I have no idea what the school rank is. I am Canadian, and so was the individual I was referring too. But the school was UBC law school.

mrlsat180

It seems like stamina and test-day conditions may be the issue then. Do full, timed, preptests at a Starbucks, then do blind review on the whole test later depending on your schedule. I would even go with 6 section PTs. 3 sections, 15 min break, then 3 sections again to build stamina. What I've suggested will be very painful and tedious to do and few people will do it, but it will be very effective. Studying for the LSAT is a lot like training for the Olympics it seems.

Jaguar007

hey i am writing the LSAT for the third time and if it doenst work out i am writing it again and again and again until I get in no joke law is my passion and writing the LSAT 5 times WILL NOT STOP ME
don't sit there and think what it means about you
Work harder
try new techniques
tell yourself you can do this and you are just as good as anyone else
forget the stupid negative thoughts
ignore them push them out
AND BEAT THAT DAMN LSAT
there is no higher feeling than the feeling of being proud of yourself for overcoming this obstacle and let that be your goal

DO NOT GIVE UP!

olddog40

@Rasheed N - LG, for PT - I usually get most of them right. At times I will skip the last question of some of the games; for the real thing I got a -7. RC - I don't think I have a good strategy, but I try to mark up the author's views, the critics, then numbers/dates (details). LG - really depends on the section

@mrlast180 - will try that.

@Jaguar007 - I wish I had the attitude, but I really feel burnt out now. May be instead of rushing for the retake in Feb, I may try the Oct test. The issue is I am already in my mid 30s and I really was hoping to get out of school by the age of 40. I am a in-house paralegal and looking to go part-time so it would take 4 years instead of 3.

Bob Lee Swagger

olddog40,

I feel as I understand your situation. This is coming from someone who just got their official score and it was lower than the 7Sage diagnostic score they took 3 months ago. I think it is great that you work with lawyers. Why do I think this? Well,....you are exposed. Most people go to law school and have no clue what they are signing up for as a career standpoint. You do, and I think it is great that you are still fighting for your dream. Keep fighting....watching motivational youtube videos help every now and then. Seriously.

Now I think I know what could help you....broaden the schools you apply to. You make take 2, 3, 4 more cycles to just get into the state school..or may never get in. Perhaps going to a different school would be your path to a JD and a career in law. You already work with lawyers and are exposed to the game, so maybe going to a different school is your path. You already have networking on your side by working in a firm. They know the caliber of person and worker you are, and people understand (if they already know you helps) that hard work beats out the person that is average but went to a "better" school. Everyone takes the same bar exam...so remember that.

Transferring may not be the best idea and many advise against it, BUT it is an option. Options are great to have, one single way is not the solution in many cases. It falls into the same boat that -not going to that one and only school does-...an education somewhere else. You could go to a different school, and not transfer. Or you could transfer...to the State school you mentioned, or a different school. Who knows, you could meet someone and they really like what you have to offer as a person and character to their firm and offer you a job post grad from the 'lesser' school. All I am saying is for you to possibly open up to other ways, because perhaps the title of your post could be accurate if the same process continues to be repeated. Who knows...you may be at that state school in two years...either as a 1L or 2L transfer student...you may not. You may send out some transfer applications and not get into the state school...but perhaps better school with more opportunities or the same quality as the State. You may do really well in your first year, because you are 'in it to win it.' But there is only one way to find out.

Keep fighting.

olddog40

@Bob Lee Swagger - thank you. I am still contemplating on a Feb re-take or Oct. re-take.Just out of curiousity, will you be re-taking? Some of the brilliant lawyers that I work with here have taken their LSATs a few times and also didnt score well. They do say the bar was easier than the LSAT.

annkang1005

I scored pretty high on my SAT (about 5 years ago) and I'm still pretty much struggling through the LSAT. SAT really came down to memorizing lots of words, becoming aware of some of the math tricks they throw at you, and memorizing and carefully checking grammar rules for the writing.

That said, I noticed that LSAT is on another level. The only easy section is the game section, I must say, and if you're not scoring -3 or less consistently, I think you have a really good shot at improving your score. Game section is so learnable (just like SAT math) and once you get used to it, it's like a fun break during the LSAT.

But the rest of the section requires SO MUCH energy out of you...


I also think you have to think about what schools you hope to attend. For any schools, I would shoot for 165+ for merit-based aid. 165+, using the right resources, is achievable for anyone who is willing to put int the work.

Ro.valdez

Dude you got this!! When you apply to law school add an admentment to your application regarding your lsat score! Emphasis how you were working full time!

Bob Lee Swagger

Olddog40,

I have applied to a wide variety of schools regardless. It doesn't hurt to see what happens. I also emailed most of them over the last couple months for fee waivers, therefore it cost me only $25 a pop. I will not be taking Feb, because I am drained and feel as if I would need more time. I also have applied to a couple Masters programs. I planned on getting the Masters while in Law school or after anyways. Once I have gotten all decisions back from the law schools and masters programs, then I'll evaluate where I stand and see what's best. I may retake June or Oct while getting my Masters if I choose to hold off law school until next cycle. I'll be able to apply very early instead of January. Or, I will be attending next Fall and shooting out transfer applications in the Spring. I am not attending T14, so I will be doing transfer applications no matter what. It doesn't hurt me and can only help.

olddog40

@Bob Lee Swagger - I debated over the weekend whether to take the Feb. or not. I have yet to decide, but I am leaning towards not taking it. I am a little burnt out, don' think I can improve significantly and I am also very depressed still with my Dec. results, in addition to other things. Though it is the same stats, I will go ahead and re-apply anyway... and will take the June LSAT also. I have been reading that a lot of places will take your June LSATs even though they do not officially indicate so. Hope luck is on both of our side!
@Ro.valdez - thank you! I will try it out gain