About JY's LG target times...

steve-10

JY has said that the target completion times shown under the explanation videos are for those who aspire to -0 or -1 per section (I think he intends section score rather than individual game score), and that students who are not yet adepts should expect longer times.

I've just been working on PT 61 S3 G4. I did the game cold and took more than 15 minutes with -1. Then I watched JY's explanation, admired it as usual, and noted that the target time annotation is 10 minutes for this "very hard" game and JY said at the start of the video that it took him a little over 9 1/2 minutes. Then I re-did the game; with no significant delays it took me 13:25 and I was -0. By "significant" I mean more than 5-10 seconds. It took me almost four minutes longer than JY said it took him. What's going on here?

One thing that's going on is that I am quite pessimistic about being able to finish four games on the upcoming Dec. 3 test.

I would love to see a video of JY (or anyone) solving a difficult LG cold in approximately the listed target time. Are there any of those?

Alex

@"steve-10" said:
What's going on here?

If you're diagramming everything correctly and making the correct inferences, then you probably just need more practice. Have you fool proofed all the early games? I found fool proofing the games from PTs 1-35 helped me increase speed by a ton. Now I can beat JY's targeted times on my first take of certain games.

The secret to LG beyond the fundamentals is repetition. Once you've memorized the oft-recycled inferences, you'll be able to hit the target times.

@"steve-10" said:
I would love to see a video of JY (or anyone) solving a difficult LG cold in approximately the listed target time. Are there any of those?

I don't think there are videos that show JY taking any games cold. However, when he calculates the "target times," his cold timing on the game is what it is based on. So I'm pretty sure the times listed are more or less the times he finished the game in cold.

If you're thinking of taking in a couple of weeks, you may want to consider waiting until you are better with games. They are very learnable, but they do take time.

BinghamtonDave

I think what we have to remember with the target times is that they are more or less guideposts. If you can save 1 minute upfront on an easier game, you will have banked that minute towards a harder game. When the target time says: 10 minutes, I always take that to mean that if I'm firing on all cylinders and am super focused, it will take me 9:45. If I am lagging behind a bit, it will take me about 11:15.

Take a look at the combined target times for PT 61's games: the combined time is 32 minutes. That gives us a comfortable deviation of about 2 minutes to put towards either of the more difficult games/bubbling correctly/double checking or the rule substitution question on game 2. Note that I didn't say a comfortable deviation of 3 minutes here. For me, I have always planned for the contingency of a proctor who calls time at 34 minutes. Planning for the worst in this regard strengthens our resolve.*

For an additional illustration of this, take at look at what I consider the second hardest LG section of all time: PT 36. Game 3 is in my estimation the hardest game of all time, with a target time of 15 minutes. Take a look at the other games in the set: target times of 5, 5 and 6. Thats 16 minutes in total. Meaning that if you have done that, you will have 19 total minutes banked for game 3/bubbling/double checking. Say you didn't do that. And the 5,5 and 6 took you 6, 6 and 7. Thats still 16 minutes of available total time for game 3/bubbling/double checking. Say you did 5.5, 5.5 and 6.5 and then 16.5. You have failed all target times, but the times are structured in a way that you still succeed. The target times are not absolute, but if a game says 10 minutes and it has taken you 22, you need more practice. If a game says 10 minutes and you finish it in 10:29, you are more or less alright in my estimation.

If the nub of your last question is a skepticism over whether someone can solve games cold under the target time, the answer is yes, indeed one can. As @"Alex Divine" pointed out, with enough practice, this can happen. As illustrated above, does it need to happen in 4 out of 4 of the games? No, not necessarily. You don't need a Superfecta on target times to succeed on games.

*Note, none of this should be taken as target times are not useful. Target times are very useful, but not absolute. Some might take you less time, some might take you slightly more time. My favorite games are in and out games. I can usually finish these 2:30 under the target time.

Alex

@BinghamtonDave said:
I think what we have to remember with the target times is that they are more or less guideposts.

@BinghamtonDave said:
You don't need a Superfecta on target times to succeed on games.

Such great points! Sometimes I even find myself forgetting these things.

Thank you, Dave!

Sprinkles

LSAC fears people like @BinghamtonDave.

Cant Get Right

@"steve-10" said:
I would love to see a video of JY (or anyone) solving a difficult LG cold in approximately the listed target time. Are there any of those?

There are some of these available actually, and they are incredibly useful. If you scroll down past JY's videos in the explanations, you'll see that there are often supplements. Sometimes these are additional videos from JY with alternate game approaches, and sometimes they are commentaries. The commentaries are videos of testers taking the games with JY's commentary on what's going on. I don't think all of them are cold takes necessarily, but I know some of them are because I've got a few sections scattered about and all of mine are cold takes.

dennisgerrard

to be honest, the first time will take much more time than latter. I specially enjoy the live commentary by JY while some of folks were doing LG.it makes me reflect how I set up and make inference.

@"Alex Divine" thanks for the LG tracker.

steve-10

Thanks to each of you. ... I realize that I've set an ambitious schedule for myself. I've been at this for only about a month, so I haven't done hundreds of games. But for reasons not germane here, I don't feel that I have time to delay the test.

I will attempt PT 36 G3 just for the challenge. Although I'm frustrated by my slowness -- I've bettered a JY estimate only once thus far -- I nonetheless enjoy the challenge of puzzle solving. BTW, another game with an estimate of 15 minutes is PT 68 G4.

The advice I've seen is always, "more practice!" I'm certainly not in a position to deny that. However -- and I'm not insisting that this is feasible -- if anyone can come up with any specific tips or ideas for speeding up, ranging from physical technique to building inferential aptitude, I'll be very grateful.

steve-10

@"Cant Get Right" are any of your available commented-on videos of games which you solved within or near the time target?

Cant Get Right

I don't think they are. Those videos are from really early on in my LG prep and I really kinda sucked. Later, I got to where I did consistently finish games within/under time on my first look. It just takes a lot of practice and experience. Keep at it.

twssmith

@"Cant Get Right" said:
here are some of these available actually, and they are incredibly useful. If you scroll down past JY's videos in the explanations, you'll see that there are often supplements.

Here are a couple of links of Live Commentary I found while Fool Proofing games from PT's that I had taken previously - hope they help you as much as they helped me:)
I cannot remember what PT has 2 different commentaries for the same game with 2 students of different skill levels, if I find it, I will add it:)

https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-67-section-3-game-1/

https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-41-section-2-game-1/

https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-42-section-1-game-1/

twssmith

I bumped this thread with a semi-list of live commentary videos available:)
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/3115/videos-of-sages-doing-lsats

DumbHollywoodActor

There’s also lots of videos of PTs 1-10, which are required viewing now that we are in the "era of the weird game" again.

J.Y. Ping

PT 78 has me doing the LG section "cold".

Alex

@"J.Y. Ping" said:
PT 78 has me doing the LG section "cold".

Now I have to see these!