Spoiler Alert: Westworld S01E10 & the LSAT

bjphillips5

So, Westworld is a really good show. And it's kinda crazy too. Spoilers starting now:

In the season finale of Westworld, the hosts (robots) are finally set free to destroy their enemies (and makers), humans.
Yay, go team robots! But I find it a bit analogous to the LSAT and test day. Finally being set free to destroy our enemy (the LSAT).



But let's be honest, at the start of our LSAT journey, we look much more like this:



How did the hosts get from mechanical parts to this conscious and free? By suffering, they continually learned to understand their enemy.

Dr. Ford: It was Arnold's key insight, the thing that led the hosts to their awakening... suffering.

Cue the creepy Dr. Ford smile:


But he continues: You needed time. Time to understand your enemy. To become stronger than them.

So basically, don't take the test until you're ready! And you're gonna need (probably) a year.

And yes, as Dr. Ford says: And I'm afraid in order to escape this place, you will need to suffer more.

It's true. You will likely suffer more really hard NA questions, surprise LGs, and Eileen Gray-esque RC passages.

Sometimes it may feel like the LSAT is a big, scary thing that you're unsure you will ever see any other part of the world again.



But you'll have the last laugh: After all, these violent delights have violent ends.


Soon enough, you'll be free to destroy the LSAT.

Sami

Omg @bjphillips5 this was so funny and spot on.

Suddenly Westworld and LSAT makes sense ❤️

Especially about the suffering part. Now I know why your advise to me is always "you need to suffer"!

Btw I hope you know that at the end the violent delights refers to host saying they no longer want to do this and kill people! Let's not loose our marbles here

Seriosly excellent post!

SherryS1

Thanks for this @bjphillips5. So happy this happened I read this and thought of the scene where Dolores realizes who she must become. Too funny.

Cant Get Right

I finally caught up! I've been so itching to open up this post, and it was everything I hoped it would be!

So while we've got a West World thread going, any hypotheses anybody?

bjphillips5

@"Cant Get Right" Glad you finally caught up

My potential theories: Next season, we get to see samurai world and some of the other parks. It turns into a Walking Dead type season where the hosts are all holed up in the parks, trying to keep the humans (and their tanks, etc.) out. Bernard never harms anyone intentionally because he's too moralistic. Maeve finds her daughter and her daughter can't remember her. Teddy continue to not be ready to join Wyatt in the violence.

Also, one of my favorite moments on the finale, Maeve decided not to leave. When we see the programming that planned for her to escape, it was really depressing and she chose to be in denial about it. But when she chooses not to escape, that's (I hope) not in her programming and kinda proves her consciousness and ability to change "directives".

Any thoughts? @Sami @SherryS1

Sami

@bjphillips5 would love to see the Samurai world in Westworld; it would be soo interesting. But I think Ford is alive, who knows it might have been a replica host.

To be honest, I am still bummed out about Williams turning into the Man in Black. I feel it wasn't done right and doesn't explain everything. Maybe the next season will delve more into it and maybe he might become the old Williams again or maybe it will be like Ford, he just wanted to help.

And maybe Arnold isn't dead either : )

I definitely feel the same for Maeve. I hope she had overcome her program to find her daughter.

Also, I feel like I am not sure whose side I am on. Humans definitely do a lot of awful things, but they see robot as objects. Don't we do the same thing with like clothes? or our toys? In our mind they are not real and we know they can be fixed. So I don't feel like abandoning the humans side of the population of Westworld just yet, because in their minds the hosts do get repaired and don't feel anything. But on the other hand the robots do know the humans can't come back if they die and Maeve has killed a bunch of them knowingly and so have other hosts. So I am not sure I am on the side of the hosts. But I still want them free if they are becoming conscious. But who says that they really are...

Cant Get Right

I'm really curious to see how Bernard develops in all of this. Nobody else knows he's a host, so that puts him in a really interesting position. He's a god who became reincarnated as a man--a Jesus figure, but with a twist: Instead of walking among men, he's walking among the gods. That's a new and exciting character that I don't think I've quite seen before.

If William in Black survives the new storyline, and I assume he does, I'm curious to see what he'll do. He wanted the hosts to achieve consciousness, but to what end? His role could be more purposeful than we realize. He seems to have particularly targeted Dolores over the years, and given that the path to consciousness is suffering, is it possible that his cruelty could be an act of love? We could have a Severus Snape situation on our hands.

I agree with Sami that we just can't make any assumptions when it comes to Ford and Arnold. They could be dead, they could be alive, they could be giant spiders. Who the hell knows.

I think the overall story is shaping up to look a lot like a Paradise Lost/Old Testament. I'm looking for parallels there as well as with Dante. There's a lot happening already: god makes man in own image, man rebels against god (eats from tree of knowledge/gains consciousness) god becomes man and walks among them, god dies to save man. Obviously, a Milton style war of the gods is coming. I feel pretty confident that this is what they're doing here. I think the main question is who is who? Ford is god, Arnold is Jesus, William is Satan? Maybe. I think Maeve is going to be our Eve. Her role as a mother is developing really powerfully, plus her name is straight up "Mother Eve," so that's hard to dismiss.

I can't wait for The Flood! I think Teddy's going to be Noah.

SherryS1

Ouuu. Very intriguing hypotheses. I totally agree that there will be new worlds! And that it's quite likely that Ford is either not dead or there will be a Ford host similar to Bernard (my favorite!) next season. Also definitely hoping that @bjphillips5 is right and Maeve's return is indicative of her overcoming her programming.

I think the show will continue to delve into the moral ambiguity that @Sami touched on. I see the show exploring not only the capacity for suffering but also the capacity to inflict suffering as a byproduct of "humanity/consciousness". My guess is that by the end of S2 we will see the hosts paralleling the excesses of the Guests or the hubris of the early-Ford. @CantGetRight - to follow your lit lead, I'm thinking it's more like the ending of Animal Farm

I think the season finale definitely made it clear that the hosts would have to transcend their current limitations and become much darker in order to end their slavery. It's interesting that Dolores who leads the charge for liberation is also Wyatt - the symbol of "evil" throughout much of S1. Her actions in the last scene felt a bit John Brown-esque. I'm curious as to how Bernard plays as a foil to her character since he seems to be the show's moral compass. Westworld is so good

Alex

@Sami said:
Omg @bjphillips5 this was so funny and spot on.

Spot on indeed! I need to check out this show, haha.

Thanks for making this @bjphillips5

Cant Get Right

@"Alex Divine" said:
I need to check out this show, haha.

Oh man, you just exposed yourself to so many spoilers. The thread title did warn you though.

Alex

@"Cant Get Right" said:
Oh man, you just exposed yourself to so many spoilers. The thread title did warn you though.

Yeah haha! Hopefully I will forget by the time I ever get around to watching it. I've decided abstain from vices like alcohol and TV shows until I master the LSAT. And that could be years, haha.

Besides, I like watching shows when there's like 8 seasons to binge watch

Sami

@"Alex Divine" said:
I've decided abstain from vices like alcohol and TV shows until I master the LSAT.

I feel like we need to add discord to this list

bjphillips5

@"Cant Get Right" said:
Oh man, you just exposed yourself to so many spoilers.

There is some research that suggests being spoiled adds to our enjoyment of stories on average. See this video, but note there are Game of Thrones, The Usual Suspects, and Romeo & Juliet (I wonder what happens!) spoilers in the video:

Alex

@Sami said:
I feel like we need to add discord to this list

I hate you sami But, yeah, sooner or later Discord is going to be on that list. Your advice about making sure I get a good day of prep in first as helped me a lot though. So thank you

Alex

@bjphillips5 said:
There is some research that suggests being spoiled adds to our enjoyment of stories on average. See this video, but note there are Game of Thrones, The Usual Suspects, and Romeo & Juliet (I wonder what happens!) spoilers in the video:

Interesting! Yeah, believe it or not, I basically had a lot of shows spoiled for me that I went on to enjoy. I tend to find TV shows nowadays pretty predictable, at least in most aspects. I still need to check out Game of Thrones and the other popular ones (Walking Dead, Westworld, Stranger Things, etc)

bjphillips5

@SherryS1 @Sami @"Cant Get Right" Speaking of the ethics of the hosts. They've already been gratuitous and included retributive violence, not just necessary violence for their freedom. See: snake tattoo women biting off finger. But I didn't necessarily mind it because the humans were nearly raping one of her compatriots. So for me, in real life, I'm not about retributive violence. But on this show, I really didn't mind it so much. Interesting moral internal moment for me.

bjphillips5

@"Alex Divine" said:
Your advice about making sure I get a good day of prep in first as helped me a lot though. So thank you

Prep always comes first!

Sami

@bjphillips5 I just feel like the biting off the finger and killing was more wrong since I don't think the humans were thinking of the hosts as having consciousness. We know that as audience so it looks horrible to us but those workers didn't. : (

@"Cant get right" your analysis is spot on. I didn't even think of the Bible and Westworld as similar. But now that you mention it the resemblance is uncanny. But I do have to disagree with the Man in Black concept. I don't think there is any way a person could inflict that much pain on someone including rape and still be in love or even mean well even if he thinks its for the betterment of the person. I guess that's why I was so shocked to find out that they were the same people. I could understand why Williams was inflicting pain on others to find Delores but why did he do that to Delores as well? I felt like this was the jump in the story I did not understand. But I wonder if thats how some people just are in real life and I just don't get it.

@"Alex Divine" said:
I hate you sami But, yeah, sooner or later Discord is going to be on that list. Your advice about making sure I get a good day of prep in first as helped me a lot though. So thank you

lol You know I love you And I am glad that advice helped. I do miss catching up with you, I hope you know that. But LSAT comes first and with that sleep. Ugh. : (

Cant Get Right

@Sami said:
I could understand why Williams was inflicting pain on others to find Delores but why did he do that to Delores as well?

William and Delores were looking for the center of the maze--Delores's consciousness. Ford explains that consciousness can only be achieved through suffering. For Willliam to stay true to the quest then, what is his task? I'm not saying he necessarily did this knowingly; he very well may have just become an evil person. But, William in Black's actions are consistent both with being evil and with fulfilling the quest, and I don't know which one is driving him.

LARamsNation

Westworld > GoT

LARamsNation

@bjphillips5 said:
How did the hosts get from mechanical parts to this conscious and free? By suffering, they continually learned to understand their enemy.

Dr. Ford: It was Arnold's key insight, the thing that led the hosts to their awakening... suffering.

Thanks. For. That. About to hammer 50 parallel flaw questions now.

via GIPHY

Sami

@LARamsNation said:
About to hammer 50 parallel flaw questions now.

Now that's true suffering!

bjphillips5

@Sami said:
I just feel like the biting off the finger and killing was more wrong since I don't think the humans were thinking of the hosts as having consciousness. We know that as audience so it looks horrible to us but those workers didn't. : (

True and I agree that their intention was not to harm conscious beings. So it's definitely not as wrong. But even so, factory farmers put animals in awful conditions and (at least say) they don't believe the animals are conscious. And a similar argument could be made for Nazis and Jews or slave owners and slaves. They might not have had the intention to harm what they considered humans. If we take all these people at their word that they don't consider animals, Jews, or slaves to have the same ability to feel pain etc. as humans, they're still super f-ed up. Ignorance doesn't excuse their action. And the retribution for that action seems relatively understandable given the host's perspective. It was gratuitous self-defense. But it was also a crime of passion after being severely violated for their whole lives and in that moment.

bjphillips5

@LARamsNation said:
Thanks. For. That. About to hammer 50 parallel flaw questions now.

It doesn't cause as much suffering as Jeff Fisher being your head coach. Thank goodness that's finally over.

bjphillips5

I also just think that the next season is going to be a war story. Otherwise that was one big climax followed by a hasty resolution and moving onto something else. That would seem to not serve the story they're trying to tell.

I've also not seen the movie nor read the book, so I don't know if either would be predictive of next season.

SherryS1

So for me, in real life, I'm not about retributive violence. But on this show, I really didn't mind it so much.

@bjphillips5 I agree with you. It's kind of got a Tarantino feel I definitely feel like I'm rooting for the hosts right now though I'm with @Sami that the finger biting was bit much for me. My guess is that when we reach the end of S2 we may feel a little more conflicted.

I also just think that the next season is going to be a war story.

You're probably right. This seems right up HBO's alley.

Westworld > GoT

@LARamsNation Oh man, that's a tough call. I think I agree. But I still feel like GoT has more of an addictive quality for me. It's just so over the top

But, William in Black's actions are consistent both with being evil and with fulfilling the quest, and I don't know which one is driving him.

@"Cant Get Right" Lol. I just saw this and thought, "hmmm -- I think being evil (or really just not good) may be necessary in order to fulfill the quest (sufficient)." Time get back to BRing my last PT

LARamsNation

@bjphillips5 said:
It doesn't cause as much suffering as Jeff Fisher being your head coach. Thank goodness that's finally over.

Are you reading my mind, bro? Cuz that is TRUTHHHH