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What are my chances at T14?

Redentore3337Redentore3337 Alum Member
in General 350 karma

Real quick context. I started studying in December, I was gonna take LSAT in June, then November. Now I've decided I'm just going to take it in 2019, so I can get a full year and more to really get the score I want which is 170+.

So realistically, just wanna know from you guys what my chances of T14 are.

I'm an under represented minority (Cuban exile). Undergrad GPA is 3.56. I'm currently getting MFA at University of Michigan, that GPA will be 3.9 (I know they don't care about that too much). I have a lot of work experience since I worked full time during college as an EMT and various other jobs to pay for school, while doing school full time, so resume should be decent.

So if I do get my target score, 170. What are my chances at T14, realistically?

I know my GPA falls in the 25th Percentile, which is why I'm wondering if I gotta hit the median LSAT or the school's 75th percentile LSAT to really have a chance.

Comments

  • FixedDiceFixedDice Legacy Member
    1804 karma

    Depends on which T14s you have in mind (Yale and Stanford, for example, might be a liiiitle bit of a stretch), but I think you will have a decent shot if you manage to score 170+ (or equal to or above a T14's median). 3.5+ is a solid GPA, and you have graduate education and decent work experience. And I'm not even considering your URM status.

  • Redentore3337Redentore3337 Alum Member
    350 karma

    @FixedDice said:
    Depends on which T14s you have in mind (Yale and Stanford, for example, might be a liiiitle bit of a stretch), but I think you will have a decent shot if you manage to score 170+ (or equal to or above a T14's median). 3.5+ is a solid GPA, and you have graduate education and decent work experience. And I'm not even considering your URM status.

    Yea Yale is probably a super reach but I think I might apply if I get my goal score. I mentioned URM because in the 7sage admissions overview they say that being URM can have an 18% increase in your chances and that seemed too good to be true but we'll see. Thanks for the input.

  • OlamHafuchOlamHafuch Alum Member
    edited May 2018 2326 karma

    The bump depends on what type of URM, too. Not all URMs are as underrepresented as others. The more underrepresented, the bigger the bump.

  • Leah M BLeah M B Alum Member
    8392 karma

    If you do make it into the 170s, I think you should have a solid shot. T3 would be tough and certain other ones like Chicago that place a lot of value on GPA. But if you blanket the whole T14, I think you should have a good shot. Just focus on the LSAT for now and getting that score up as high as possible.

  • Redentore3337Redentore3337 Alum Member
    350 karma

    @"Leah M B" said:
    If you do make it into the 170s, I think you should have a solid shot. T3 would be tough and certain other ones like Chicago that place a lot of value on GPA. But if you blanket the whole T14, I think you should have a good shot. Just focus on the LSAT for now and getting that score up as high as possible.

    June 2019 here I come! LOL

  • Redentore3337Redentore3337 Alum Member
    350 karma

    @OlamHafuch said:
    The bump depends on what type of URM, too. Not all URMs are as underrepresented as others. The more underrepresented, the bigger the bump.

    True

  • testfromawaytestfromaway Alum Member
    280 karma

    This is unrelated to your question, but is the MFA in creative writing or another field? A Michigan MFA in poetry is my DREAM. I'm applying for it alongside law school this year, and would love to hear your experiences.

  • Redentore3337Redentore3337 Alum Member
    350 karma

    @testfromaway said:
    This is unrelated to your question, but is the MFA in creative writing or another field? A Michigan MFA in poetry is my DREAM. I'm applying for it alongside law school this year, and would love to hear your experiences.

    IT IS!!! Creative Writing in poetry. Direct message me, I'll let you know anything you wanna hear. Or ask on here lol, either way :)

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    4423 karma

    If you can get the 170 you ought to get into a Top 14 if you blanket them.

    Look at this link for your chances. There are two caveats. First it is including all non-African American URMs. I think that should fit you fairly well, but it is definitely important. Second, it is based on Law School Numbers data from last year. In a couple of months when you see the data from this year at the same site it could be less optimistic.

    http://mylsn.info/b4hxsw/

    For you, being above median on the LSAT at as many of the Top 14 as possible will be vital. Your GPA will be below median. So you need to be a splitter and have an LSAT which will help their median. After that you are counting on the fact that you are a URM, have great work experience, and will hopefully write great essays and a great application overall to break the tie with the other splitters. Half the battle is also convincing the schools you will attend if accepted. It seems like you will have an edge at that in Michigan.

    So go get that LSAT and keep in mind that if you can get it above median at a school then as a URM you will have a decent shot there.

    I hope to hear about a Master of the Fine Arts joining me at U of M law school in the next one or two application cycles.

  • Redentore3337Redentore3337 Alum Member
    350 karma

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:
    If you can get the 170 you ought to get into a Top 14 if you blanket them.

    Look at this link for your chances. There are two caveats. First it is including all non-African American URMs. I think that should fit you fairly well, but it is definitely important. Second, it is based on Law School Numbers data from last year. In a couple of months when you see the data from this year at the same site it could be less optimistic.

    http://mylsn.info/b4hxsw/

    For you, being above median on the LSAT at as many of the Top 14 as possible will be vital. Your GPA will be below median. So you need to be a splitter and have an LSAT which will help their median. After that you are counting on the fact that you are a URM, have great work experience, and will hopefully write great essays and a great application overall to break the tie with the other splitters. Half the battle is also convincing the schools you will attend if accepted. It seems like you will have an edge at that in Michigan.

    So go get that LSAT and keep in mind that if you can get it above median at a school then as a URM you will have a decent shot there.

    I hope to hear about a Master of the Fine Arts joining me at U of M law school in the next one or two application cycles.

    That is extremely helpful! Thanks for taking the time to share that information.

    We'll see! I've heard that if you apply to the law school that was your undergrad, you have less of a chance of getting in. In my case, it's my graduate school so I'm not sure if it still applies but I'm definitely applying to Michigan if I get my target score.

    I'll ask people around for the person known as 'seeking perfection' lol :)

  • KalayaanKalayaan Alum Member
    213 karma

    You're basically a guarantee with a 170+. Going by LSN with your creds I'd be shocked if you didn't stick at at least one T14.

  • _yezwaj__yezwaj_ Alum Member
    269 karma

    @Redentore3337 said:
    I've heard that if you apply to the law school that was your undergrad, you have less of a chance of getting in. In my case, it's my graduate school so I'm not sure if it still applies but I'm definitely applying to Michigan if I get my target score.

    Who told you that? That sounds like someone rationalizing why he/she didn't get in.

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    4423 karma

    @ya_he_ja_z1 said:

    @Redentore3337 said:
    I've heard that if you apply to the law school that was your undergrad, you have less of a chance of getting in. In my case, it's my graduate school so I'm not sure if it still applies but I'm definitely applying to Michigan if I get my target score.

    Who told you that? That sounds like someone rationalizing why he/she didn't get in.

    Graduate schools often don't like inbreeding/taking too many of their own people. But that doesn't apply as much to law schools where they are not worried about our intellectual diversity as researchers the way they would be in a PhD program. Michigan has a program where people from their undergrad with good enough grades can skip the LSAT and get in so I doubt they are trying to avoid people from University of Michigan.

    I felt I had an edge applying to U of M because it was easier to convince them I would go. My personal statement referenced U of M which I hid for the other schools but excentuated for my Michigan app. Additionally, I was a Michigan resident which helps on tuition by a few thousand dollars and may have convinced them I would attend if admitted and not hurt their yield. Being able to avoid yield protection is important and is probably easier for anyone with any specific tie to a school.

  • _yezwaj__yezwaj_ Alum Member
    edited May 2018 269 karma

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:

    @ya_he_ja_z1 said:

    @Redentore3337 said:
    I've heard that if you apply to the law school that was your undergrad, you have less of a chance of getting in. In my case, it's my graduate school so I'm not sure if it still applies but I'm definitely applying to Michigan if I get my target score.

    Who told you that? That sounds like someone rationalizing why he/she didn't get in.

    Graduate schools often don't like inbreeding/taking too many of their own people. But that doesn't apply as much to law schools where they are not worried about our intellectual diversity as researchers the way they would be in a PhD program. Michigan has a program where people from their undergrad with good enough grades can skip the LSAT and get in so I doubt they are trying to avoid people from University of Michigan.

    I felt I had an edge applying to U of M because it was easier to convince them I would go. My personal statement referenced U of M which I hid for the other schools but excentuated for my Michigan app. Additionally, I was a Michigan resident which helps on tuition by a few thousand dollars and may have convinced them I would attend if admitted and not hurt their yield. Being able to avoid yield protection is important and is probably easier for anyone with any specific tie to a school.

    Wow, that Michigan program sounds awesome. My undergrad has the early-decision program -- which I'm hesitant to apply under because it seems like it provides absolutely no room for scholarship negotiation.

    Congrats on Michigan -- that's a great school. I visited once in summer of 2015 and was amazed at how beautiful the law school was.

  • Redentore3337Redentore3337 Alum Member
    350 karma

    @ya_he_ja_z1 said:

    @Redentore3337 said:
    I've heard that if you apply to the law school that was your undergrad, you have less of a chance of getting in. In my case, it's my graduate school so I'm not sure if it still applies but I'm definitely applying to Michigan if I get my target score.

    Who told you that? That sounds like someone rationalizing why he/she didn't get in.

    This girl I spoke to got a 168 and apparently had a really good GPA. And she mentioned that was the reason, I didn't believe it either so it's a good thing that it's not like a thing Michigan does.

  • Redentore3337Redentore3337 Alum Member
    350 karma

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:
    If you can get the 170 you ought to get into a Top 14 if you blanket them.

    Look at this link for your chances. There are two caveats. First it is including all non-African American URMs. I think that should fit you fairly well, but it is definitely important. Second, it is based on Law School Numbers data from last year. In a couple of months when you see the data from this year at the same site it could be less optimistic.

    http://mylsn.info/b4hxsw/

    For you, being above median on the LSAT at as many of the Top 14 as possible will be vital. Your GPA will be below median. So you need to be a splitter and have an LSAT which will help their median. After that you are counting on the fact that you are a URM, have great work experience, and will hopefully write great essays and a great application overall to break the tie with the other splitters. Half the battle is also convincing the schools you will attend if accepted. It seems like you will have an edge at that in Michigan.

    So go get that LSAT and keep in mind that if you can get it above median at a school then as a URM you will have a decent shot there.

    I hope to hear about a Master of the Fine Arts joining me at U of M law school in the next one or two application cycles.

    This is a really stupid question but what does "blanket them" mean? Does that mean just picking all of them? So i'd apply to all of them. Also, what's the advise here on early decision and the pros and cons of it?

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    edited May 2018 4423 karma

    @Redentore3337 said:

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:
    If you can get the 170 you ought to get into a Top 14 if you blanket them.

    Look at this link for your chances. There are two caveats. First it is including all non-African American URMs. I think that should fit you fairly well, but it is definitely important. Second, it is based on Law School Numbers data from last year. In a couple of months when you see the data from this year at the same site it could be less optimistic.

    http://mylsn.info/b4hxsw/

    For you, being above median on the LSAT at as many of the Top 14 as possible will be vital. Your GPA will be below median. So you need to be a splitter and have an LSAT which will help their median. After that you are counting on the fact that you are a URM, have great work experience, and will hopefully write great essays and a great application overall to break the tie with the other splitters. Half the battle is also convincing the schools you will attend if accepted. It seems like you will have an edge at that in Michigan.

    So go get that LSAT and keep in mind that if you can get it above median at a school then as a URM you will have a decent shot there.

    I hope to hear about a Master of the Fine Arts joining me at U of M law school in the next one or two application cycles.

    This is a really stupid question but what does "blanket them" mean? Does that mean just picking all of them? So i'd apply to all of them. Also, what's the advise here on early decision and the pros and cons of it?

    Blanket means apply to all of them.

    Applying early decision means you are committed to going if they accept you and cannot back out. This means you basically have no leverage to negotiate scholarships.

    Therefore it is usually a bad idea to apply early decision except at the handful of schools which give large scholarships for applying early decision. Northwestern gives $150,000 to those accepted through early decision. I don't think anyone else in the Top 14 gives that much. I think WUSTL gives full tuition.

  • samantha.ashley92samantha.ashley92 Alum Member
    1777 karma

    You can probably get in if you're in the 75th percentile with your LSAT score.

  • FlashLSATFlashLSAT Alum Member
    293 karma

    T14 definitely possible. I believe the greatest decision you've made so far is to post pone your test and give yourself ample time to gain mastery over the test. I've made a similar decision to not commit to any test day prior to January 26 2019.

    Good luck!!

  • _oshun1__oshun1_ Alum Member
    edited May 2018 3652 karma

    @Redentore3337 said:

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:
    If you can get the 170 you ought to get into a Top 14 if you blanket them.

    Look at this link for your chances. There are two caveats. First it is including all non-African American URMs. I think that should fit you fairly well, but it is definitely important. Second, it is based on Law School Numbers data from last year. In a couple of months when you see the data from this year at the same site it could be less optimistic.

    http://mylsn.info/b4hxsw/

    For you, being above median on the LSAT at as many of the Top 14 as possible will be vital. Your GPA will be below median. So you need to be a splitter and have an LSAT which will help their median. After that you are counting on the fact that you are a URM, have great work experience, and will hopefully write great essays and a great application overall to break the tie with the other splitters. Half the battle is also convincing the schools you will attend if accepted. It seems like you will have an edge at that in Michigan.

    So go get that LSAT and keep in mind that if you can get it above median at a school then as a URM you will have a decent shot there.

    I hope to hear about a Master of the Fine Arts joining me at U of M law school in the next one or two application cycles.

    That is extremely helpful! Thanks for taking the time to share that information.

    We'll see! I've heard that if you apply to the law school that was your undergrad, you have less of a chance of getting in. In my case, it's my graduate school so I'm not sure if it still applies but I'm definitely applying to Michigan if I get my target score.

    I'll ask people around for the person known as 'seeking perfection' lol :)

    I’m just lurking about and, I only have my own and a couple other’s stories as evidence, but I think if anything you are more likely to get into an institute you already went to. I was accepted to the law school of my undergrad even though my LSAT score was below their 25th percentile (GPA was above 75th tho). Even though they only gave me a small scholarship, it’s somewhere I would’ve considered attending and not even trying to negotiate scholarship higher since my living expenses would be $0 since I could live w my parents. I would imagine that admissions would think that you are more likely to attend and more likely to accept less scholly $$ if you were accepted to a school you already went to. I was waitlisted at a lower ranked school with similar gpa/LSAT medians, and I’d assume it’s bc it’s on the opposite coast and I had indicated the other schools I applied to, all schools in my state, so they probably knew I just applied on a whim.

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    4423 karma

    @"surfy surf" said:

    @Redentore3337 said:

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:
    If you can get the 170 you ought to get into a Top 14 if you blanket them.

    Look at this link for your chances. There are two caveats. First it is including all non-African American URMs. I think that should fit you fairly well, but it is definitely important. Second, it is based on Law School Numbers data from last year. In a couple of months when you see the data from this year at the same site it could be less optimistic.

    http://mylsn.info/b4hxsw/

    For you, being above median on the LSAT at as many of the Top 14 as possible will be vital. Your GPA will be below median. So you need to be a splitter and have an LSAT which will help their median. After that you are counting on the fact that you are a URM, have great work experience, and will hopefully write great essays and a great application overall to break the tie with the other splitters. Half the battle is also convincing the schools you will attend if accepted. It seems like you will have an edge at that in Michigan.

    So go get that LSAT and keep in mind that if you can get it above median at a school then as a URM you will have a decent shot there.

    I hope to hear about a Master of the Fine Arts joining me at U of M law school in the next one or two application cycles.

    That is extremely helpful! Thanks for taking the time to share that information.

    We'll see! I've heard that if you apply to the law school that was your undergrad, you have less of a chance of getting in. In my case, it's my graduate school so I'm not sure if it still applies but I'm definitely applying to Michigan if I get my target score.

    I'll ask people around for the person known as 'seeking perfection' lol :)

    I’m just lurking about and, I only have my own and a couple other’s stories as evidence, but I think if anything you are more likely to get into an institute you already went to. I was accepted to the law school of my undergrad even though my LSAT score was below their 25th percentile (GPA was above 75th tho). Even though they only gave me a small scholarship, it’s somewhere I would’ve considered attending and not even trying to negotiate scholarship higher since my living expenses would be $0 since I could live w my parents. I would imagine that admissions would think that you are more likely to attend and more likely to accept less scholly $$ if you were accepted to a school you already went to. I was waitlisted at a lower ranked school with similar gpa/LSAT medians, and I’d assume it’s bc it’s on the opposite coast and I had indicated the other schools I applied to, all schools in my state, so they probably knew I just applied on a whim.

    I agree. Michigan is my home state not my alma mater, but nonetheless I think it helped a lot there that I clearly had family in Michigan and had never left the state. Oppositely, I think it caused me a lot of waitlists at other schools if I couldn't display my interest clearly enough.

    When I went to Duke's ASW a prof literally asked me if it was between them and Michigan while asking everyone else gathered around what their Duke's top competition was. He then tried to persuade us all to pick Duke and told us what he thought the differences were. And the thing is, despite not knowing much about me except my home state and despite me getting into a Top 6, he was exactly right.

    Admissions officers are trying pretty hard to boost their numbers and if they have a good reason to think you are more likely to attend their school, like having lived there before, they are going to see that as a benefit of admitting you.

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