some premises are 'sub-conclusions' in that they are supported by other premises, and at the same time support the main conclusion (perhaps other sub-premises)
if its hard to determine the structure of the argument, you can narrow things down by considering:
the main conclusion wont support anything else. at the same time, it must have at least 1 premise
a premise will be supporting something else. and thus, it won't just be background info
if there is no supporting going on, you have merely a list of facts in your passage
Okay so I think I'm probably thinking about this weirdly. But I liken this lesson on arguments to science. In that, the premise is an independent variable to your argument (or experiment) while your conclusion is the dependent variable that cannot occur without the independent variable. The dependent variable can change of course depending on your independent variable. But it cannot be different. For the dependent variable to occur you NEED the independent variable if that makes any sense. I hope I'm not thinking of this wrong lol.
Can you have a premise and a premise relate to each other? Or embedded premise/conclusion for two arguments? EG, premise -> (conclusion & premise) -> conclusion?
I'm confused about our application of the definition of "support".
We said A supports B iff A increases the likelihood of B. But in probability theory, this relation is always symmetric: if A supports B, then B supports A (by the same ratio, according to Bayes' theorem).
In the tiger example, the conclusion does actually support the premise: to see this, note that if all mammals were suitable pets, it would be pretty unlikely for tigers to be maiming humans.
So I'm wondering how to reconcile this with the directional arrows between premise and conclusion, the different words used, etc.
Can someone explain the baseball analogy in hockey terms? Also, since the premise is the evidence, we always accept it as the truth, right? It's the conclusion that may not be correct as it could make an assumption that isnt supported by the premise or evidence given. Is that correct?
this might be me being a stickler, but you cant be a pitcher without a catcher and vice versa. If a pitcher throws the ball, nothing receives it and the ball stays there. Likewise, a catcher without a pitcher would just stay squatted for hours if there is nothing for him to receive. just makes it easier for me to understand though!
Are there any words or phrases that typically signal a premise or conclusion?
Would the test makers use key words as obvious as therefore, thus etc. etc. when introducing the conclusion?
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69 comments
I get this, but sub-conclusions confuse me at the moment!
main conclusion also supports nothing else.
some premises are 'sub-conclusions' in that they are supported by other premises, and at the same time support the main conclusion (perhaps other sub-premises)
if its hard to determine the structure of the argument, you can narrow things down by considering:
the main conclusion wont support anything else. at the same time, it must have at least 1 premise
a premise will be supporting something else. and thus, it won't just be background info
if there is no supporting going on, you have merely a list of facts in your passage
Okay so I think I'm probably thinking about this weirdly. But I liken this lesson on arguments to science. In that, the premise is an independent variable to your argument (or experiment) while your conclusion is the dependent variable that cannot occur without the independent variable. The dependent variable can change of course depending on your independent variable. But it cannot be different. For the dependent variable to occur you NEED the independent variable if that makes any sense. I hope I'm not thinking of this wrong lol.
I get it but it’s lowkey frying me.
So I'm trying to see if I got it right?
Premise=thrower
Support= Ball
Conclusion=catcher
So the thrower has to have the ball in good condition to throw it to the catcher- resulting in the summary of that throw.
https://discord.gg/b8XaYkZHxk I'm taking the November test. If you want a study group/make friends in a similar boat, feel free to join!
Can you have a premise and a premise relate to each other? Or embedded premise/conclusion for two arguments? EG, premise -> (conclusion & premise) -> conclusion?
I'm confused about our application of the definition of "support".
We said A supports B iff A increases the likelihood of B. But in probability theory, this relation is always symmetric: if A supports B, then B supports A (by the same ratio, according to Bayes' theorem).
In the tiger example, the conclusion does actually support the premise: to see this, note that if all mammals were suitable pets, it would be pretty unlikely for tigers to be maiming humans.
So I'm wondering how to reconcile this with the directional arrows between premise and conclusion, the different words used, etc.
Pitcher (throw the support) = Premise.
Catcher (receive the support) = Conclusion.
Am I on the right track?
Can someone explain the baseball analogy in hockey terms? Also, since the premise is the evidence, we always accept it as the truth, right? It's the conclusion that may not be correct as it could make an assumption that isnt supported by the premise or evidence given. Is that correct?
premise is setting up for the conclusion to be supported
Is premise the same as evidence?
when do I get support? i need me a premise hml
The premise is the basis on which the conclusion is established.
Premise supports a conclusion, solid premises strongly support the conclusion
Premise supports, conclusion is supported.
premises support the conclusion, and on the lsat you don't typically debate the premises, but rather the validity of the conclusion.
without a solid premise, or multiple, the conclusion is weak and therefore easily picked apart.
Reading the comments of those who came before helps. To understand this, I am going to make an example.
Premise = i am going to make an example
Conclusion = to understand this
An argument can incorporate a major premise or sub-conclusion.
- Premise supports the [main] conclusion or sub-conclusion
- [Main] Concl. receives support from premise or sub-concl.
- Sub-concl. is an intermediate concl. and a premise for the main concl.
Excited to be taking this journey
Nice!
this might be me being a stickler, but you cant be a pitcher without a catcher and vice versa. If a pitcher throws the ball, nothing receives it and the ball stays there. Likewise, a catcher without a pitcher would just stay squatted for hours if there is nothing for him to receive. just makes it easier for me to understand though!
Oh my goodness-- I wish I had found 7Sage before I wrote the November LSAT! LOL This is a game changer for the next one I write!
Question
You can have a premise without a conclusion but not a conclusion without a premise, right?
Are there any words or phrases that typically signal a premise or conclusion?
Would the test makers use key words as obvious as therefore, thus etc. etc. when introducing the conclusion?