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If, "neither P nor K are cute", then can you say P+K→/C or do you have to keep them separate??
Lawgical Translations:
P → /C
AND
K → /C
Therefore, P+K→/C ?
Thank you!!!!
0
If, "neither P nor K are cute", then can you say P+K→/C or do you have to keep them separate??
Lawgical Translations:
P → /C
AND
K → /C
Therefore, P+K→/C ?
Thank you!!!!
11 comments
Thank you @6400 @akikookmt881 @donamhyun690
@donamhyun690 said:
@donamhyun690 Can you elaborate on your question because your original statement did not have an inclusive or. Neither P nor K are cute translates as the following in English: P is not cute And K is not cute. Maybe I'm missing something, so tell me more.
I didn't explicitly say "inclusive or" in my original statement because I didn't know it could act as same as "neither nor"! I agree with you that I shouldn't put "and" as a replacement. However, it's okay to put "and or = inclusive or" in a replacement for "neither nor" because they are essentially same thing if you see my diagram!
@donamhyun690 said:
According to the video lecture, "neither" means "not one and not the other". So if we have "Neither P nor K are C", then it would be "P are not C AND K are not C".
P→/C AND K→/C:
When []? Then []
P? /C
K? /C
P, K? /C
P, /K? /C
/P, K? /C
/P, /K? Unknown
C? /P and /K
Then I tried to condense P→/C AND K→/C to something simpler by using "And" and "Or".
P+K→/C (using and)
P? Unknown
K? Unknown
THEREFORE, =/= to the original statement
P/K→/C (using inclusive or)
P? /C
K? /C
P, K? /C
P, /K? /C
/P, K? /C
/P, /K? Unknown
C? /P and /K
THEREFORE, = to the original statement
If I was to encounter such a statement on a test, I would just keep them separate without the "or". That's just my personal preference though. So I'd just write the following:
P ----> /C
K ---> /C.
However, If P or K, then /C would also do the trick. So it's up to you to choose how to diagram them. Just make sure you do not put an "AND" in the sufficient condition.
@donamhyun690 Can you elaborate on your question because your original statement did not have an inclusive or. Neither P nor K are cute translates as the following in English: P is not cute And K is not cute. Maybe I'm missing something, so tell me more.
@6400 said:
Lol I just realized that after the fact. Thanks, @akikookmt881
No problem :wink:
@donamhyun690 said:
I have a sense that "'neither nor' is essentially an 'either or' statement with a negation applied to it", but I keep getting P/K → /C (Contrapositive: C → /P and /K) when I try drawing out the process.
Yes, you are right.
P
or → /C
K
It really is simple: Neither nor = Not one and not the other.
https://classic.7sage.com/lesson/neither-nor/
@donamhyun690 said:
Also what if "Jane will select neither the blue nor the black dress: Jane will not select Blue dress AND Black dress"??
Can you sum them up as J→/Blue + /Black?
or do you have to separate them as J→/Blue AND J→/Black?
This basically means that "Jane won't select the blue dress" and "Jane won't select the black dress."
Jane select→/Blue dress
Jane select→/Black dress
=
/Blue dress
↗︎
Jane select
↘︎
/Black dress
Blue dress→/(Jane select)
Black dress→/(Jane select)
=
Blue dress
↘︎
/(Jane select)
↗︎
Black dress
Lol I just realized that after the fact. Thanks, @akikookmt881
@donamhyun690 said:
If, "neither P nor K are cute", then can you say P+K→/C or do you have to keep them separate??
This would be separate because it means that "P are not cute" and "K are not cure" separately.
P → not cute
K → not cute
P
or → /C
K
P↘︎
/C
K↗︎
https://classic.7sage.com/lesson/neither-nor/
@6400 said:
I would translate the original like this:
P or K -----> C
This translation would be "If it is not P or not K, then it is cute" ("Non-P or Non-K are cute").
@donamhyun690 said:
The entities should remain separate for the following reason: P+K ----> /C indicates that they are not cute when combined. But the original statement said that neither P nor K are cute, which means each entity on its own is not cute. In your example, the sentence became as the following: if P and K, then not cute. I hope this makes sense.
Same reasoning applies to your second scenario.
@donamhyun690
I got the part that "and" cannot be established because "each entity on its own is not cute". Then what about "inclusive or"?
@6400 said:
I would translate the original like this:
P or K -----> C
then utilizing DeMorgan's Law for the contrapositive
C ------> P and K
the "neither nor" is essentially an "either or" statement with a negation applied to it
@6400
I have a sense that "'neither nor' is essentially an 'either or' statement with a negation applied to it", but I keep getting P/K → /C (Contrapositive: C → /P and /K) when I try drawing out the process.
I will try to show my thoughts as clearly as possible!!! Plz help!! (3(/p)
According to the video lecture, "neither" means "not one and not the other". So if we have "Neither P nor K are C", then it would be "P are not C AND K are not C".
P→/C AND K→/C:
When []? Then []
P? /C
K? /C
P, K? /C
P, /K? /C
/P, K? /C
/P, /K? Unknown
C? /P and /K
Then I tried to condense P→/C AND K→/C to something simpler by using "And" and "Or".
P+K→/C (using and)
P? Unknown
K? Unknown
THEREFORE, =/= to the original statement
P/K→/C (using inclusive or)
P? /C
K? /C
P, K? /C
P, /K? /C
/P, K? /C
/P, /K? Unknown
C? /P and /K
THEREFORE, = to the original statement
Thank you both @donamhyun690 and @6400 !!! (3 (3(/p)
I would translate the original like this:
P or K -----> C
then utilizing DeMorgan's Law for the contrapositive
C ------> P and K
the "neither nor" is essentially an "either or" statement with a negation applied to it
The entities should remain separate for the following reason: P+K ----> /C indicates that they are not cute when combined. But the original statement said that neither P nor K are cute, which means each entity on its own is not cute. In your example, the sentence became as the following: if P and K, then not cute. I hope this makes sense.
Same reasoning applies to your second scenario.
Also what if "Jane will select neither the blue nor the black dress: Jane will not select Blue dress AND Black dress"??
Can you sum them up as J→/Blue + /Black?
or do you have to separate them as J→/Blue AND J→/Black?
@6400
So confusing.
Thank you in advance!!! (3(/p)