See my post on 17 Dec below for update:
After submitting my apps to schools that I am seriously considering, I opened up my data to the LSAC CRS program, thereby eliciting the typical volume of fee waivers and marketing emails one gets from this service. Based on school solicitations, I have done a deep dive on a few, including Boston College. Up front, I don't feel that I would be a competitive applicant for Boston College, either for admission or for any significant amount of scholarship. However, one part of their application's fine print made a statement, to wit: Any scholarship offer will be reduced based on any veteran's benefits you receive so that the two combined will not exceed the cost of tuition.
As a veteran, I took serious offense at this statement. What I earned as a benefit in my 25 years of military service has absolutely zero to do with and should be totally independent of any scholarship consideration a school should give me.
No other school that I've applied to or looked at has made any statement remotely similar to this one. Has anyone else seen anything like it?
34 comments
Yeah. I've read fine print at various places that say things like this. Got a scholarship and you get an outside scholarship for a set amount? They'll use that one first and reduce their scholarship by the amount. Even merit based. It's the worst idea ever. Like no one could possibly use the excess for fees or books or other things not covered.
http://time.com/money/collection-post/4248174/scholarship-award-displacement-college-financial-aid/
Just got off the phone with VA educational benefits. For me, as a Montgomery GI Bill recipient, the VA (government) does not care or even know about my tuition at school or who pays it. Once they verify that I'm attending full time, they cut me a check for the current level of eligibility and send it to my bank to use however I want (tuition, books, housing, dancing pandas, Pabst Blue Ribbon, WWE tickets). So that's why the language about veteran's benefits chafes. I will definitely pay particular attention to the language used if any school offers me a scholarship.
ETA: I also found out that once my Montgomery GI Bill is used up (which will happen after my 1L year, I am eligible for 12 months of Post 9-11 GI Bill. Something good did come out of the annoying BC language.
Definitely interested in how this plays out as I’ll be applying next year just before retirement. Keep the updates coming.
Lol, thanks @toddcarp2003227
@toddcarp2003227 said:
Update on this issue for the Veterans in the house. I've had 2 schools offer me admission without any scholarship (I'm over LSAT 75th %'s at both schools). Both have told me they did not offer scholarships because they assumed I had full coverage by the GI Bill.
Which I don't. So yeah, that's a thing.
Wow. That is ridiculous to assume. Especially by law school, I imagine many are tapped out. My spouse is a veteran, but his benefits are long gone.
@leahbeuk911 said:
So they're saying if tuition is $60k, and veteran's benefits would put $50k toward that, and you were eligible for a $20k merit scholarship, they'd reduce your merit scholarship to $10k just so the additional $10k overage isn't refundable. But if veteran's benefits were to cover $40k or less in this scenario, they would give you the full $20k.
That's the rub of it... They're taking money that you earned, in order to not give you money that you earned. In that scenario, they'd be taking money to offset their merit scholarship. (Merit, not need based adjustment). Who cares if you busted ass and got scholarships galore? More power to you. No one should indirectly take those from you by taking their own, already-granted scholarships away like that. It's ridiculous.
And in his case, if they do reduce it.. it's even worse, because that money wouldn't even go to the school, but to him, with the stipulation that he can use it as he pleases. A school trying to take or use that money against him is absolutely wrong. Did he earn the merit scholarship the school freely offered? Then that's all that should matter. Outside merit based aid is between him and those that grant it to him. The only time this should matter is when it is need based aid, and he doesn't have a need.
I hate the games they play. It's nonsense.
@toddcarp2003227 said:
Like no one could possibly use the excess for fees or books or other things not covered.
This x100000
@ezheng811oshun1 said:
Why are you bothered by BC? It just says they take into consideration things like your GI bill, so that your merit + need based scholarship + GI bill doesn’t end up exceeding the cost of tuition.
There’s a lot of fine print when it comes to scholarships.
My source of frustration is that benefits I earned as a service member should have no impact on any merit based scholarship I receive. Why should a school get to measure me by a different metric based my veteran status? I also get a retirement check. Should I get offered less merit scholarship because I faithfully served my country for 25+ years? I sacrificed birthdays, holidays, anniversaries, missed literally years of my children's life because I was vacationing in middle eastern desert countries. And I'll just lightly breeze over 4 separate combat deployments as an infantryman and other sea time I have traipsing around as a guest of the US Navy. Should I now miss out on scholarship consideration as well?
@rbelete6881 I had not thought of the distinction between merit and need-based. I understand if it is only for need-based. I think I’m going to call their admissions office and see. Thanks!
@toddcarp2003227 said:
After submitting my apps to schools that I am seriously considering, I opened up my data to the LSAC CRS program, thereby eliciting the typical volume of fee waivers and marketing emails one gets from this service. Based on school solicitations, I have done a deep dive on a few, including Boston College. Up front, I don't feel that I would be a competitive applicant for Boston College, either for admission or for any significant amount of scholarship. However, one part of their application's fine print made a statement, to wit: Any scholarship offer will be reduced based on any veteran's benefits you receive so that the two combined will not exceed the cost of tuition.
As a veteran, I took serious offense at this statement. What I earned as a benefit in my 25 years of military service has absolutely zero to do with and should be totally independent of any scholarship consideration a school should give me.
No other school that I've applied to or looked at has made any statement remotely similar to this one. Has anyone else seen anything like it?
I've seen similar things in undergrad for need-based scholarships. For instance when a student wins an outside scholarship and uses it for his or her tuition, the undergrad will reduce the need-based scholarship by the same amount lol. For law schools, if you think about it, the higher the salary you earn and the more savings you make, the lower your need-based scholarships are. The obvious issue is that people are punished for making smart financial decisions or for winning scholarships. On the other hand, the schools may think that the money is better spent on a more "needy" admit if you come in with savings or in your case veteran's funding. Though it's kind of weird that BC is saying that regarding a Merit scholarship.
@toddcarp2003227 said:
Fellow Marine here. It’s quite a regional thing, it seems, since here in SoCal I’m not really seeing this issue. Maybe you should look to nicer weather here in sunny California because the schools seem more military-friendly :)
Semper Fi! One of the schools noted is a California school, one of the UC's. The very first thing in my acceptance package from that school was a statement about how they love supporting the military, which I now find totally ironic.
FWIW, I sent the updated addendum to all of the school I'm interested, whether accepted or still pending. Most of them responded as one would hope, that no assumptions played into their consideration. One said that he found the practice borderline unethical. This is really putting a sour taste in my mouth about this whole process.
Fellow Marine here. It’s quite a regional thing, it seems, since here in SoCal I’m not really seeing this issue. Maybe you should look to nicer weather here in sunny California because the schools seem more military-friendly :)
@toddcarp2003227 That sounds like the right move, hope it works out for you!
Since it's now relevant with your 33 bennies here's an awesome spreadsheet that gives you school-specific info: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TZWCZ79yFzrv2J6bdyzqtS_uZFb8-mQ-9pXkALxEtw8/edit#gid=1439159944
@mjmonte17592 said:
If the school expects you to put that towards the tuition, that would be pretty lame. That would be no different than expecting someone working a part time job to count that towards merit scholarships.
That gets to the point of my frustration. Again, I totally understand need-based calculations. But to reduce any merit based scholy because of benefits I earned through my military service rubs me the wrong way.
@toddcarp2003227 said:
I'm on hold with the VA education benefits line right now. I'm on the Montgomery GI Bill, which cuts a check directly to me not a school. I had always assumed that if I got one of those sweet Cooley full rides I would be able to use my GI Bill to cover housing and books. More to follow...
If the school expects you to put that towards the tuition, that would be pretty lame. That would be no different than expecting someone working a part time job to count that towards merit scholarships.
I'm on hold with the VA education benefits line right now. I'm on the Montgomery GI Bill, which cuts a check directly to me not a school. I had always assumed that if I got one of those sweet Cooley full rides I would be able to use my GI Bill to cover housing and books. More to follow...
Hope they extend the scholarships to you.
@mjmonte17592 Admission people at both have told me to send an addendum. I am also sending an addendum to each of the other schools at which I have already been accepted or am still waiting for a decision from. Yikes!
@toddcarp2003227 Wow, that's unfortunate. Thanks for giving us the heads up! How irresponsible of the schools to assume that. Hopefully you can convince them to reconsider in light of their mistaken assumption.
Update on this issue for the Veterans in the house. I've had 2 schools offer me admission without any scholarship (I'm over LSAT 75th %'s at both schools). Both have told me they did not offer scholarships because they assumed I had full coverage by the GI Bill.
Which I don't. So yeah, that's a thing.
@toddcarp2003227 Thank you for your service and best of luck with the admission process :smile:
The more I dig, the more I think this is a thing (schools reducing scholarship offers due to veteran benefits). 2 separate examples in the below linked thread. For those that it applies to, its definitely something to watch as we play the admissions game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/9nc55m/for_my_fellow_law_school_veterans/
The way around this... at least for some schools is having the school label the "scholarship" as a stipend. All scholarships must be reported to the schools financial aid office, including veterans benefits. It does get a little complicated. I've heard some people negotiate at schools for instance, they have a scholarship for 20k per year. Schools COA is 60k/year. They have full scholarship through VA benefits, but it only last two years. So they ask the school to award the 20k per year scholarship in the final year for 60k. Others I've heard about is they ask them to reclassify the scholarship as a stipend. I'm sure some schools are more flexible. This will definitely be part of your negotiation process once scholarship and acceptances come through. Good luck!