What is the difference between LR questions in the 70's and 80's compared to earlier PTs?

For example, is it that recent LR questions hinge on really subtle interpretations of words, like conflating "method" and "reason" and these two words are spaced far apart in the paragraph? Is it picking up on really subtle flaws? Did the old tests just test your basic understanding of logic and not really test your ability to hunt for subtlety?

I ask because I did really well in PT 60, then did 5x worse in a pt from the 80s. This is pretty consistent too for LR. Why?

I’m in EST timezone but I don’t really mind what timezone you are in.

Plan is to have a whatsapp group where we’ll be posting how much (whether #of sections or hrs) we studied everyday. I’m not looking for a group to do BRs together or to do any Skype sessions (at least not at the moment)

I work full time also so I’m just looking for ways to keep myself accountable and motivated. Let me know if anyone is interested.

Btw - I’m planning to take the test in the summer and I score somewhere around mid 160s.

Hello everyone!!! I recently just got my first 170! I went from a 151 diagnostic back in June to that score on my most recent prep test! I just wanted to say thank you to everyone on the forums who's helped me, I really appreciate it and it definitely helped me get to this spot!

I would appreciate any feedback on my study plan from the Sages and also really anyone else who has been studying for a while and feels like they have a good grasp on what they are doing here.

Goal Score: 174

Cold Diagnostic: 166 (Aug ‘19) (disclaimer, this is not a totally fair point of comparison as I did not do an adequate job of precisely simulating test day conditions - e.g. gave myself more time in between sections).

LG (-9)

LR (-8)

RC (-3)

Studying so far: I technically started studying for the LSAT last summer but I had no idea what I was doing. Initially, I worked my way through a Princeton Review Prep book from the library and was devoting probably 4hr/week to studies with no set schedule; then based on the advice of a friend, I went through the PowerScore LR Bible but studying was still haphazard.

The same friend told me that what I really needed to focus on was taking timed practice tests. Through no fault of my friend, I somehow got it in my head that if I just took enough practice tests, my score would improve. I then blazed through 9 PTs without any BR (I have since learned my lesson and have turned those old PTs into drilling material so not a total waste). To illustrate how bad it got, at one point I took a PT on 8/28 (163), then 8/30 (164), then 8/31 (163), then 9/2 (160) and then 9/4 (158). (In case you’re curious, during this period my LG and RC scores were very inconsistent but LR was relatively stable at around -8-14). I would take these tests, exhausted, at 4:00am and then (because of a somewhat toxic situation at my full-time job), would job hunt late into the evening. Obviously the lack of improvement was disheartening (although, looking back it is almost laughable that I expected ANY improvement in between these tests).

When I started my new job, I put LSAT training on hold (partially because I was exhausted) and partially because this new job was a lot more intense. Anyways, I quit that job back in late February and have been studying full-time (so approximately ~5 weeks) ever since (6 days a week for 8-10 hours a day). I joined 7Sage shortly after and I finally feel that I am studying the right way. For the remainder of February and first half of March, I worked intensely on drilling LR (2-3 sections/day with intense BR) and full-proofing LG. When I was ready, I took another PT as a check-in and scored a 169 (BR 170) with -1 LG, -9 LR and -3 RC; I was calm for most of the exam but felt as if my nerves still probably got the better of me in both the LR sections. Anyways, one week later, the Coronavirus is in full swing and I took another PT from home in the absolute worst of conditions (jerry-rigged setup in my closet with my dresser set up as a desk) where I was hunched over and could not give 100% to the exam; ultimately, I think my nerves really got the best of me, scoring a 159 (-9 LG, -9 LR and -9 RC).

What I took away from this is that I do not have a reliable and repeatable process; I’m falling back on my intuition, which works fine when a test somehow aligns with my strengths but not so much when this isn’t the case (feel free to disagree with my diagnosis). After my 159, I went through the Core Curriculum in earnest (previously, had just hopped around focusing on Formal Logic and other perceived problem areas).

All this to say, that I am now going to be starting a new PT/BR schedule and would like feedback on my tentative plan. I had originally planned (and am registered for the April exam) but expect this to be canceled and feel that June/July is probably more feasible anyways.

Logic Games:

Logical Reasoning:

Reading Comprehension:

Apologies for the somewhat rambling post but appreciate in advance any feedback.

Hi, over the past year or so I've constantly been updating my blind review template based on what instruction from tutors and mentors, from the 7Sage CC, from The Loophole, from all-star sages and also based on what I find benefits me most when I BR a question.

If you have any questions or suggestions I'd love to hear them! Hope this benefits you.

PT, Q, Q type:

The best way to do these questions is:

Motto for Q type:

Translation Drill (after looking at the stim once, process the information and repeat it in abbreviated form here.):

Conclusion Premises Background info:

Referential phrasing:

Cookie Cutter logical layout (Method of Reasoning and structure):

Flaw:

My Prediction / prephrase:

Blind Review (BR) and Answer Choices (ACs) - why is the AC right? Why wrong?

Test writer review (TWR) – Why is this AC on the test in the first place? What is the trap set for this wrong AC? Who are they trying to fool?

Seek mastery

A.

TWR.

B.

TWR.

C.

TWR.

D.

TWR.

E.

TWR.

Teach a parallel question:

Takeaways:

(This is long. Thanks for bearing with me. Otherwise, TL;DR is at the bottom.)

Through elementary and middle school, I knew I wanted to be a lawyer. When I was confirmed, I chose Thomas as my "confirmation name," after St. Thomas More, the patron saint of lawyers. Whenever I was asked, I always said that's what I wanted to do, mostly because I enjoyed logic, and dissecting arguments.

By the time I got to high school, I had steered away from that dream, simply because I was told that "doctors and lawyers" were the types of people that got consistently high grades and, well... I didn't.

In college, I tried my hand at a few different programs, but never really found "my calling." I tried aviation, and computer science (both of which I enjoyed, but weren't "my thing"). I ended up settling on a degree in Secondary Education, with a focus on English, because teaching and English were things I was naturally good at, and I needed to get out of school sooner or later. I sailed through those classes without much trouble and graduated with a 3.0 GPA.

I've since found that teaching isn't "my thing" either, and I've been doing technical support, in one form or another, for going on 10 years now. Again, it's something that I have a natural aptitude for, but not something I'm necessarily passionate about.

I settled down, got married, had some kids, and spent some time wondering whether this is what I was meant to do. And then, I found you all.

I feel like I've found my people.

I'm... excited to study? What?

I am legitimately looking forward to the time when I get off work, put my kids to bed, and get to my computer to listen to JY teach me things at chipmunk speed.

I learn. I take quizzes. I fail — and thoroughly enjoy the process. I've never been this excited to learn about something in my life.

But, here's the thing:

I don't really know what it's like to be a lawyer.

And actually, I don't even know what it's like to be in law school, or how the process of studying for the LSAT compares.

I want to believe that I will enjoy it—that this will be "my thing." But I've been watching these videos about how so many lawyers get through this whole process, where they crush the LSAT and get into a great law school and do awesome in school and then they get out and... they just wind up hating it. And that scares me.

I don't plan to go to into big law, or even "medium" law (is that a thing?). I'm not sure I will ever live in a city with more than 150,000 people. When I become a lawyer, it will probably be in a small firm with a few other people and a wide focus — at least, that's what it seems like to me.

So, here's the TL;DR: How did you know you wanted to be a lawyer? I am pretty sure I was made for this. But, the number of lawyers who hate their jobs is daunting, and I don't want to get into this only to find out that it's just "another thing" that I tried and decided wasn't for me.

When I take a practice exam on 7 Sage how come there are only 4 sections and the actual test is made up of 5 sections with 1 unscored section. So I'm wondering where is the missing section and shouldn't we be preparing by doing 5 sections vs 4 since that'll only under prepare us. Thoughts? Solutions?

Hi all,

I’m currently scoring in low160’s. I can tutor whoever is scoring below that. Send me an inbox message if interested.

It seems like it can either go both ways, when undergrads graduate into a weak economy they are more likely to continue their studies since the job market is very competitive. On the other hand, people with jobs are reluctant to leave them for law school due to the uncertainty of the labor market. Then there's people staying home more which can equal more study time. What do you think will happen?

Hello,

Is it possible to understand suff n necc. conditions to such an extent that memorizing the indicators taught to us in the groups become unnecessary?

Thinking out loud- i'm afraid of becoming too dependent on the memorization of these indicators and not be able to establish a solid form of logical thinking into my reasoning process, if that makes sense?

Any thoughts?

My loophole book just came in the mail and I was curious if I should finish CC first then read or is it okay to learn from both at the same time. I also have Mike Kim's LSAT Trainer on the way as hell but I think that's just a study guide not necessarily a course. I'm interested in hearing everyone's thoughts and/or suggestions! Or experiences?

If I have completed a section of the test in its current form, will converting it from paper to digital or vice versa remove any answers I had inputted for that section?

I am looking for a study partner to go over maybe some material in 2-3 sessions a week. I think someone to touch base and to toss around ideas with. I also think talking it out and explaining questions to others on how you will approach a problem is also helpful. We can do RC together because RC is usually dry as hell. Or, do one game together. I mean, whatever works. I am a non-traditional student and work full time. I am just trying to get comfortable with the language of LSAT as much as possible.

Hi everyone,

I am studying the second time around for the LSAT. I have taken it once before, a while back and scored a 146. However, I am looking to start re-studying except for the life of me I cannot form a solid game plan or even know where to begin. My goal is between a 160-165.

Thank you.

Been studying for about 2 months and I am 1/3 of the way done with the CC. Looking for someone or some people to help hold each other accountable and eventually review PTs together. Looking to take the exam in July and maybe October.

I was studying 5-6 consistently before Covid. Idk maybe im just lazy or making excuses but im barely doing 3 now lol

I plan to take the LSAT in August of this year. I am looking for a tutor that can help me. Suggestions are welcome.

How do you get your fee waived?

Hi Everyone!

I am looking to tutor one to two people who are scoring lower than me in LR. Those who would benefit most from my help would have an untimed BR score around -5 to -10+ per LR section.

My current average BR score is between -1 to 0 per LR section. And -5 under timed conditions. I have been studying full time for almost a year now and I have been scoring in the mid 160s on full length PTs with BR scores at 175. My goal in offering tutoring is not only to get better at it myself but to contribute to the 7Sage community as I have benefitted from others willing to offer their time and knowledge to me.

If you are interested please direct message me with your average LR timed and BR score per section, any weaknesses you have noticed, and which exams you have already taken. Also, let me know what time zone you are in and then we can discuss the logistics of how tutoring would work.

Thanks and stay safe!

When I first started logic games, making inferences looked like some sort of voo doo that I would never quite get. I brute forced games that should have been split, I tried to split games that had way too many possibilities and ran out of time because I was trying to make 6 game boards. I have often forgotten to circle the floater or even think about how it can help answer questions or make inferences. If this sounds like you, I am writing this post primarily for you.

Understanding the power of the floater is helpful for multiple situations:

You are learning logic games and having trouble seeing inferences

You didn’t split the game or the game is open ended

You are looking at a question and don’t see any obvious inferences, so you trying to brute force the answer choices. Understanding the power of the floater will help you be smarter about which answer choices to test.

Here is how the floater (s) can help you:

You have a “ Could be True” question

Sequencing Example: Who could be the 4th person in line? Because your floater should be able to go anywhere, if you see the floater as one of your answer choices, try placing the floater in that 4th position first in a mini diagram and see if it works.

In and Out Game: If you have a true floater, it should be able to go into either the In or Out group. So, if you have a question asking you which variable can go into the In Group and you see your floater showing up as an answer choice, this should be the first answer choice you try.

Grouping: Your floater should be able to go into any group so if you have a question asking you which variable could go into Group C, try your floater first.

You have Must be true question:

Sequencing Example: If you see your floater listed in the answer choices, Eliminate, you know that your floater can go in more positions than just 4th position for example, because there is no rules attached to it.

In and Out Game:

If you have a true floater it should be able to go into either of the groups. If you see your floater in the answer choices, don’t check it.

Grouping Game:

Your floater doesn’t have to be in any specific group, eliminate any answer choice regarding this.

You have a Must be False Question:

Sequencing Example: Who can’t be the 4th person in line?

If you see the floater in one of the answer choices, this should be the last answer choice you try. Remember, your floater should be able to go anywhere so it is highly unlikely the answer to the question, unless it has been eliminated by another rule such a large block or sequencing chain.

In and Out Game:

If you have a floater it should be able to go into either group so if the question is asking who can’t go into the In group, you should skip checking any answer choices involving your floater.

Grouping:

Your floater should be able to go into any group so don’t check any answer choices involving your floater for a question stem that asks you something like who can’t go into Group C?

You have a hypothetical question where your floater has been placed

Sequencing example: If H is 4th, what must be true?

Since H was your floater and has now been placed, do you have any large blocks or variables that can’t go together? Check to see if placing your floater has now limited the block (s) or variables that need to be seperated.

In and Out Game:

You have a limited number of variables so when something has been placed it limits the possibility of other variables. This is particularly true in In and Out Games with limited distribution possibilities. For example, if you have a game where you can have a max of three variable in the In Group, you already had a variable in the In Group and now you have placed your floater into the In Group, you know that your block can’t go into the In Group because you only have one spot left.

As a second example, you have placed your floater into the Out Group which is now full, you now know that all of other variables which haven’t been placed yet are now in the Out Group.

Grouping Game:

If the groups are open ended placing your variable may not help you much but if you have a game with limited distribution and restrictive rules, than the floater may just be the key to the inference the question wants you to make.

For example: You have 3 groups A, B, C Each Group can have a maximum of two variables. You have just placed your floater into Group A, and Group A is now full because another variable had already been placed into it based on another rule. You know that you need to seperate R and S. R has been placed into Group B. This pushes out the inference that S must be placed into Group 3.

You have a hypothetical question involving a large block or variables that need to be seperated

Sequencing example: A question like this may severely limit the possibilities of your floater. This is particularly true when considered in conjunction with other rules of the game like blocks, variables that can’t go together or sequences. For a question like this, create a mini diagram and place your large block or variables. Check out how this impacts other variables in the game. Chances are that your floater is now restricted. While, this won’t always turn out to be the answer choice itself, noticing this can help you find the inference the question is asking you about.

In and Out Game:

If there is a limited number of positions, this makes it harder to separate variables that can’t go together. When you seperate variables that can’t go together or place variables that have to go together, your possibilities to distribute the remaining variables may become severely more limited.

Grouping Game:

If you have placed variables that need to go together or separated variables that can’t go together, your floater likely has more limited distribution possibilities, especially if your groups have limited distribution possibilities.

You have more than one floater:

Your floaters are interchangeable. If C and T are your floaters these are essentially the same answer choice.

If you have any question that you see both your floaters show up as answer choices, you can eliminate both answer choices. There is only one right answer.

Hi guys,

For RC, I'm just wondering whether any 170+ scorers employ a skipping strategy commonly seen in LR, where you do 10 questions in 10 minutes and15 questions in 15 minutes to have 10 minutes left over to do a second pass on 3-5 questions that were skipped on purpose?

I find that this technique really helps me prioritize my time in LR sections and think it may also benefit me in RC. I realize that because of the reading time can vary for each passage on RC, that this technique may have to be a bit different than LR. But I do notice that when I get to the last passage with ~ 10 minutes left, I tend to freak out a bit and it becomes difficult to finish on time.

Thanks!

Whenever I try to take a problem set from the lessons or when I make a custom problem set, it just displays the number 1.

Hi, when I click on Existing Problem Sets the website brings me to the page with all my problem sets. When I click on one, the "Take Problem Set" area only shows the number "1" and that's all instead of showing the questions or the loading interface. This stopped working about 2:40pm est.

I am in PST and scoring in mid 150s-late 150s. Blind Reviewing from early 160s-late 160s. I am looking for a study partner in PST to discuss practice tests/sections on a weekly basis. Message or comment if interested. Thanks.

Trying to do problem sets, says "1" under take problem set and nothing else. Not letting me take it