Query failed: connection to 172.31.3.4:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused). Advantages/Disadvantages to Cancelling - 7Sage Forum

Advantages/Disadvantages to Cancelling

Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member ⭐
edited September 2017 in General 3521 karma

Hey all,

This morning was rough..like really rough..as some of you may know I've been shooting for a mid-170s score and my PTs were on par with that grade.

This morning though, I just felt like I got hit by a brick wall. I don't feel confident in my score at all.

I wanted to know, what are the potential advantages of canceling? Do law schools only look at your top score, or do they average them? Does it depend on the school? And if so, which average and which take the top ones?

Thanks,

Paul

Comments

  • AllezAllez21AllezAllez21 Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    edited September 2017 1917 karma

    There are virtually no advantages to cancelling.

    No schools average. Some people claim that Yale does, but there is no evidence for this. There is in fact evidence that they do not. Schools only care about the highest.

    My advice: do not cancel.

    Google "Do Law Schools View Multiple LSAT Attempts as a Negative?" for a blog post by Spivey. You should not care about a lower score on your record.

  • rafaelitorafaelito Alum Member
    edited September 2017 1063 karma

    @AllezAllez21 said:
    There are virtually no advantages to cancelling.

    No schools average. Some people claim that Yale does, but there is no evidence for this. There is in fact evidence that they do not. Schools only care about the highest.

    My advice: do not cancel.

    Google "Do Law Schools View Multiple LSAT Attempts as a Negative?" for a blog post by Spivey. You should not care about a lower score on your record.

    Thanks for putting this so succinctly! I look forward to your explanation of the judges passage when you become a sage haha. Also @"Paul Caint" I have also been shooting for a 170+ and felt fine until my RC section which was last. I clearly did not prepare well enough in RC. I also thought about canceling but my thoughts are similar to @AllezAllez21. What do I gain by canceling? Law schools see a cancel not a low score? What does that do? It was a good experience. It alleviated a lot of anxiety about testing conditions. It showed me what I have to work on. I feel the dread, the panic, the angst, the 'I should have'. But take it for what it is. A great learning experience.

  • Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member ⭐
    3521 karma

    My first section was an experimental reading comp. section. But I didn't realize it was experimental until the end :(

    The proctor called 5 minutes when I hadn't even read the final passage...I started tearing up right there and my confidence was just shot..idk it was a bad experience

  • calcal101calcal101 Alum Member
    582 karma

    @"Paul Caint" you aren't the only one! I'm also really disappointed with how things went this morning, and I'm already in the process of signing up for December. I'll be watching this topic to see what responses you get, but as of now, I'm thinking I'll let my score ride (i.e. not cancel). I'm aiming for 171+, and that's not off-base given my PTs. My situation's basically the same as that of @RafaelBernard …relatively smooth sailing until that last section

  • AllezAllez21AllezAllez21 Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    1917 karma

    I stand firmly by the "do not cancel" advice. Really, don't do it.

    That being said, just like @RafaelBernard said, this was a valuable experience regardless of your score. Worst case, you will be way better prepared and more familiar for December. No doubt nerves affected me too, and no doubt my score was lower as a result. However, I don't fear the LSAT anymore. I know exactly what a real LSAT is like and I'm sure if I take in December again that I will score higher.

  • NorthernAtticusNorthernAtticus Alum Member
    edited September 2017 79 karma

    @AllezAllez21 said:
    No schools average. Some people claim that Yale does, but there is no evidence for this. There is in fact evidence that they do not. Schools only care about the highest.

    This may or may not be applicable to OP, but Toronto does definitely average. It's possible that nobody in the US does, but it's not accurate to say that "no" school does it.

  • LSAT Take 2LSAT Take 2 Member
    38 karma

    I had almost an identical experience as everyone on this thread. I am going to be honest, I really needed this thread right now because I've been distraught all afternoon. I guess we double down and try again.

  • zachary.findlingzachary.findling Free Trial Member
    5 karma

    @"emily.jensen14" said:
    I had almost an identical experience as everyone on this thread. I am going to be honest, I really needed this thread right now because I've been distraught all afternoon. I guess we double down and try again.

    I agree with what Emily said. Definitely needed to read this. I felt like I got hit by brick wall during this test. I wrote down one of the rules on a game and had to completely start over. It was hard to recover after that. Totally messed up my vibe. So law school typically don't average correct? Thanks everyone

  • jurisprudentjurisprudent Alum Member
    326 karma

    Keep your head up, everyone! There is always December.

  • Seeking PerfectionSeeking Perfection Alum Member
    4428 karma

    Even if you decide to cancel give it a day to settle in first. I've read about a person who strongly considered canceling their score, realized they were over reacting, and then recieved a 180. Don't be the unsung opposite half of that story.

  • LSAT Take 2LSAT Take 2 Member
    38 karma

    @"Seeking Perfection" said:
    Even if you decide to cancel give it a day to settle in first. I've read about a person who strongly considered canceling their score, realized they were over reacting, and then recieved a 180. Don't be the unsung opposite half of that story.

    I do not think I am in this particular boat, unless I guessed correctly on like 9 straight questions, but I appreciate your positive attitude.

  • practicethepausepracticethepause Alum Member
    111 karma

    Does any school take the average of your scores?

    I heard that Yale does and I was considering whether or not I should cancel my score...I would greatly appreciate your help/thoughts!

    To provide more context, I took the Sept test today and I feel like I got around a 162-165. I've consistently been PTing in that range too. I'm hoping to raise my score to a 170+ by December and will take the Dec test. I have a 3.97 GPA and go to a pretty competitive university. If I'm aiming for T14, do you think it's better for me to cancel and take the Dec one instead?

  • Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member ⭐
    3521 karma

    I never guessed on any questions, and I finished each section with a bit of time to spare. But I just didn't feel cognitively 100%..idk I might just be psyching myself out...

  • xtinextinextinextine Member
    861 karma

    @"Paul Caint" said:
    My first section was an experimental reading comp. section. But I didn't realize it was experimental until the end :(

    The proctor called 5 minutes when I hadn't even read the final passage...I started tearing up right there and my confidence was just shot..idk it was a bad experience

    I also had the RC experimental. But for some reason I feel like I did really well on it. I usually struggle to finish RC and for this one I finished with minutes to spare...and to find out it was experimental mentally freaked me out. Especially because I know I did terrible on the real RC section. Didn't even make it to the last section. I should've skipped the judge passage. :( Cue panic.

  • sillllyxosillllyxo Alum Member
    708 karma

    I bombed the easy LG bc my brain just shut down :( I'm not canceling.

  • Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member ⭐
    3521 karma

    @xtinextine So the first 3 passages of the RC experimental felt SUPER easy to me! But then the proctor called time and I was like what the heck?! Part of me thinks the proctor actually called time early. I couldn't get through the last passage. Was super glad it was experimental because that would have been a for sure -5 for me.

  • jaolson28jaolson28 Alum Member
    13 karma

    Yeah, don't cancel. I'm positive I underperformed (aside from my diagnostic I'd never been forced to guess on LR or RC passages, but I had to on this one. RC was brutal, it was also my first section (though I had the real one first) and I'm pretty sure it tanked my confidence for the rest of the test.

    I'm not cancelling. Just don't see any benefit. I want to know what I did wrong on this test so I can fix it. I'm just going to treat this like a live practice test.

  • xtinextinextinextine Member
    861 karma

    @"Paul Caint" Oh wow maybe they did call it early. I read that other post about the horrible proctor messing up times. That's pretty bad and also makes me worried! I thought that'd be unusual. But I talked to a girl before the test today and she was retaking it because the same thing happened to her.

  • xtinextinextinextine Member
    861 karma

    Also, I'd just like to say that these comments have really helped me. I've also been contemplating canceling, but I think I'll just take what I got, learn from it, and move forward with December.

  • AllezAllez21AllezAllez21 Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    1917 karma

    @practicethepause Yale does not average.

  • AllezAllez21AllezAllez21 Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    1917 karma

    @"Paul Caint" i think you are totally selling yourself short. Sure it's possible that you scored a few points lower than normal, but it's entirely possible you scored average or better. If you finished each section with time to spare, no way should you cancel.

  • Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member ⭐
    3521 karma

    @AllezAllez21 I think there's something unsettling about not knowing your score immediately after taking the exam..Like with PrepTests after each PT I could go back and check my answers immediately and figure out what I got right and what I got wrong, reinforce the right logic, etc.

    But with the real LSAT, there's just so much uncertainty left out there. Was my reasoning right? Did I make a silly mistake? Did I diagram that right?

    All this uncertainty has me feeling so uneasy, especially since the whole test felt really really fast. Idk. I don't know if it's just post-LSAT stress or an actual warranted freak-out.

  • OlamHafuchOlamHafuch Alum Member
    2326 karma

    If you think you are freaked out now, wait until grey day. That's serious anxiety!

  • NorthernAtticusNorthernAtticus Alum Member
    79 karma

    @"Paul Caint" said:
    Like with PrepTests after each PT I could go back and check my answers immediately and figure out what I got right and what I got wrong, reinforce the right logic, etc.

    But... blind review... :(

  • Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member ⭐
    3521 karma

    @"alaric.taves" Yeah after that :)

    Whether it was an hour or two after, there was atleast some sense of immediacy that isn't granted with the actual LSAT :(

  • acsimonacsimon Alum Member
    edited September 2017 1269 karma

    I was sorry to find this in the message board earlier. I wrote this morning, was blank beforehand, but then sped through most of the sections so quickly that I wondered if I was trippin'. Seeing this, though, sucked because I know that you are a high scorer that was probably playing in your mind with the possibility of some lucky things happening and you pulling a 180.

    In any case, I would say hold your head up. Don't cancel (as people said, it doesn't really do anything for you at this point--besides perhaps preserve some personal pride), and plan to write also for December. I would take a month off, though, as far as practice is concern. To forget this test, and forget some of the material with the PTs. Your skills shouldn't drop off too much, and should be readily retrievable after only a few weeks of refamilarizing yourself with test materials.

    Perhaps, also working on some general testing techniques will also help. Performance anxiety can be a mofo--and it's even worse when it's completely debilitating. And, for the record, I hope that this is all moot, and you received that 175+. Cheers--A.c.S

  • Stevie CStevie C Alum Member
    edited September 2017 645 karma

    first time I took the LSAT, i thought i did horribly but it ended up being 169. That type of score may be below your target but is in the mid-range for most of the T14. glad I didn't cancel since it's still a useful score

  • nataliecnataliec Member
    9 karma

    @"alaric.taves" said:

    @AllezAllez21 said:
    No schools average. Some people claim that Yale does, but there is no evidence for this. There is in fact evidence that they do not. Schools only care about the highest.

    This may or may not be applicable to OP, but Toronto does definitely average. It's possible that nobody in the US does, but it's not accurate to say that "no" school does it.

    From UofT's website:
    "Repeated Attempts: If more than one LSAT score is reported, all LSAT scores will be seen and considered by the Admissions Committee. Generally, we place emphasis on the highest LSAT score reported"

  • Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member ⭐
    3521 karma

    @acsimon That was how I felt too! I just felt like I was moving so fast that I must have missed something..like I could easily see myself getting -3 to -4 on each LR section, and then -5+ on Reading Comp. Maybe perfect on the games, but then again who knows?

  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27902 karma

    I had experimental RC as my section 1 too. It destroyed me; they totally overshot the difficulty level. I've never been so happy to turn the page and see RC welcoming me back from the break. I wish they'd consider how that affects people through the rest of the test before creating an experimental like that. It shouldn't happen.

    As far as cancelling, you should lean towards not cancelling, but only you can evaluate your performance under the circumstances of that hanging over your head. For what it's worth, the same thing happened to me last September, and I scored a 170 which got me about 250k total scholarship offers as well as an admit at my top choice school. It wasn't what I'd hoped for, but it took me far.

    Good luck making that call, and if you decide to hang on to it, hope the wait isn't too bad!

  • vanessa fishervanessa fisher Alum Member
    1084 karma

    @"Cant Get Right"
    Do you mind me asking why you took the test again this cycle? If you already got scholarships and acceptance to your top school, do you just take the LSAT now for fun? masochism? :)

  • Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member ⭐
    3521 karma

    @"Cant Get Right" Yeah. I've decided not to cancel and just see what my score is like. Praying for a big curve.

    And yeah, that RC experimental just wrecked your mind...it didn't seem fair at all. I heard the experimental games weren't too bad or mind-crushing, not sure about LR.

    It's annoying because it doesn't feel like everyone took the same test. It feels like, at least from what I've heard, a lot of the people who got RC as their experimental had a big confidence hit that permeated throughout the rest of the exam.

    I wanna see c'est la vie, but it just all feels so wrong :(

  • The NoodleyThe Noodley Alum Member
    662 karma

    @"Paul Caint" good call! sorry I was late to the discussion (I just finished the test in Asia). You won't lose anything by not cancelling (you will have access to your answer sheet and look up your weakness).

  • calcal101calcal101 Alum Member
    582 karma

    @"Paul Caint" I totally feel you on hating the uncertainty. I'm now thinking back to all these questions and desperately trying to remember what I chose and what my reasoning was (aka trying to blind review without even having the test in front of me lol).

    I woke up today definitely leaning towards canceling, but I absolutely don't think you should. It sounds as though worst case scenario for you is a 167/8 (forgive me if I'm still low-balling)…those are very respectable scores. My predicted worst case scenario is much lower. So I might cancel, but I absolutely don't think you should.

  • dml277dml277 Alum Member
    775 karma

    @"alaric.taves" said:

    @AllezAllez21 said:
    No schools average. Some people claim that Yale does, but there is no evidence for this. There is in fact evidence that they do not. Schools only care about the highest.

    This may or may not be applicable to OP, but Toronto does definitely average. It's possible that nobody in the US does, but it's not accurate to say that "no" school does it.

    May I ask if you found reliable sources that explicitly say Toronto averages multiple LSAT scores? I'm looking at their website right now and it says:

    "If more than one LSAT score is reported, all LSAT scores will be seen and considered by the Admissions Committee. Generally, we place emphasis on the highest LSAT score reported."
    https://www.law.utoronto.ca/admissions/jd-admissions/application-procedure

  • NorthernAtticusNorthernAtticus Alum Member
    79 karma

    @nataliec said:

    @"alaric.taves" said:

    @AllezAllez21 said:
    No schools average. Some people claim that Yale does, but there is no evidence for this. There is in fact evidence that they do not. Schools only care about the highest.

    This may or may not be applicable to OP, but Toronto does definitely average. It's possible that nobody in the US does, but it's not accurate to say that "no" school does it.

    From UofT's website:
    "Repeated Attempts: If more than one LSAT score is reported, all LSAT scores will be seen and considered by the Admissions Committee. Generally, we place emphasis on the highest LSAT score reported"

    @dml277 said:

    @"alaric.taves" said:

    @AllezAllez21 said:
    No schools average. Some people claim that Yale does, but there is no evidence for this. There is in fact evidence that they do not. Schools only care about the highest.

    This may or may not be applicable to OP, but Toronto does definitely average. It's possible that nobody in the US does, but it's not accurate to say that "no" school does it.

    May I ask if you found reliable sources that explicitly say Toronto averages multiple LSAT scores? I'm looking at their website right now and it says:

    "If more than one LSAT score is reported, all LSAT scores will be seen and considered by the Admissions Committee. Generally, we place emphasis on the highest LSAT score reported."
    https://www.law.utoronto.ca/admissions/jd-admissions/application-procedure

    This is very interesting - I don't remember the exact language, but I'm 100% certain that their site has not always said this. UoT is known up here for their 'holistic' approach to applications, and their LSAT policy has always reflected this. That paragraph is new, so I wonder if they might've changed their policy... Anyway evidently I'm wrong.

  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27902 karma

    @"vanessa fisher" said:
    @"Cant Get Right"
    Do you mind me asking why you took the test again this cycle? If you already got scholarships and acceptance to your top school, do you just take the LSAT now for fun? masochism? :)

    Don't mind at all. The issue is that the scholarship money and the top choice admit did not overlap, haha.

    @"Paul Caint" said:
    @"Cant Get Right" Yeah. I've decided not to cancel and just see what my score is like. Praying for a big curve.

    And yeah, that RC experimental just wrecked your mind...it didn't seem fair at all. I heard the experimental games weren't too bad or mind-crushing, not sure about LR.

    It's annoying because it doesn't feel like everyone took the same test. It feels like, at least from what I've heard, a lot of the people who got RC as their experimental had a big confidence hit that permeated throughout the rest of the exam.

    I wanna see c'est la vie, but it just all feels so wrong :(

    Yeah, it's tough to carry something like that through the whole test. The LSAT is hard enough without having to bear that kind of emotional weight.

  • Paul CaintPaul Caint Alum Member ⭐
    edited September 2017 3521 karma

    @acsimon See, I wouldn't even say that the passages in the experimental were difficult. In fact, they felt kinda straightforward and simple..but for some reason it just felt long and I ran out of time..Idk why...maybe the passages were longer? Not sure.

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