Do people who score in the low 170s BR close to 180?

Pride Only Hurts

My current BR average is around 172. I'm wondering if I need to bring My BR score up to the high 170s in order to start PTing in the high160s to low170s. I figure it's gotta be nearly impossible to actually hit a 170 if your BR is only a couple points higher than that. What's a normal BR score for some of you high scorers?

MissChanandler

My PT average is in the low 170s and my BR is typically only about 2 points higher than my score. High highest PT was a 174 and my highest BR (on that same test incidentally) was a 178. You should always be trying to raise your BR score, but you don't have to BR in the high 170s to break 170.

Gunningfor121

@MissChanandler How long did it take you to PT in the 170s and what was your diagnostic?

Pride Only Hurts

@MissChanandler said:
My PT average is in the low 170s and my BR is typically only about 2 points higher than my score. High highest PT was a 174 and my highest BR (on that same test incidentally) was a 178. You should always be trying to raise your BR score, but you don't have to BR in the high 170s to break 170.

That's solid! My BR has been the consistent part of my prep so far. Pretty much goes up with every other PT I take. But right now my BR is about 8-10 points higher than my actual test score. No idea how to narrow the gap.

MissChanandler

My diagnostic was a 157 (although I had looked at some LR questions so it wasn't a "true" diagnostic techinically). I kind of lazy studied whenever I felt like it for like 6-8 months and worked on the powerscore bibles (LR and LG) off and on during that time, which brought me up to about a 166. After that, I actually started studying and went through the CC and scored a 172 on my first PT post CC. Then I spent a couple months PTing and foolproofing to get more consistent (I had a couple PTs in the high 160s still) and get those couple extra points. I took the test on Saturday so I'm still waiting for an official score.

I think if the BR points that you're gaining are spread over the sections, then it just means keep on working. If like six or eight of them are from one section or question type, it could be indicative of a bigger timing issue that a strategy might help.

sic parvis magna

Personally, the gap between my BR and my timed score never really closed. It remained at around 3-5 points. As one went up, so did the other. I started at around 160/BR 163 (after the CC), and ended up around 174/BR 178-180. Narrowing the gap to 1 or 2 would have been nice, but with time constraints, there was always a game, passage or a handful of LR questions that just didn't fully 'click' for me during the timed test, but that I later easily understood during BR.
It used to bum me out, but then I figured 'hey, as long as I'm improving, who cares?'

Echoing what @MissChanandler said, you definitely don't need to BR in the high 170s to break 170. First two times were 170/172 and 170/171.

eRetaker

I usually have no more than 0-2 point gaps in my actual scores and BR scores. Usually the points people gain in BR are from logic games since that's the section where anyone can get -0 with enough time to bruteforce. If you have a 8-10 point gaps I'm guessing your logic games section still needs some work, at least in terms of timing. MBT LR and RC question types are also easy to catch in BR so of course part of your BR gap might be from missing those questions during time crunch and catching them in BR. Conversely if you are only missing assumption family questions I would suspect that you would have only 0-2 point gaps since those mistakes are harder to catch even with unlimited time.

Pride Only Hurts

@eRetaker said:
I usually have no more than 0-2 point gaps in my actual scores and BR scores. Usually the points people gain in BR are from logic games since that's the section where anyone can get -0 with enough time to bruteforce. If you have a 8-10 point gaps I'm guessing your logic games section still needs some work, at least in terms of timing. MBT LR and RC question types are also easy to catch in BR so of course part of your BR gap might be from missing those questions during time crunch and catching them in BR. Conversely if you are only missing assumption family questions I would suspect that you would have only 0-2 point gaps since those mistakes are harder to catch even with unlimited time.

You're definitely right about LG. Right now it's either hit or miss for me. If things go smoothly I'll miss 1 or 2. But if I freeze on a tough game I could easily be looking at -6. Mostly need to work on timing with that. Pretty much the same problem with RC. I can get the first 20 questions right and then, due to timing, miss like 5 on the last passage.

Leah M B

I would say, in nerdy LSAT language, having a high 170s BR score is sufficient but not necessary. I typically BR 175+ and hit 180 once but am stuck in the 168-169 range timed. So, having a high BR also doesn't necessarily mean that you will score in the 170s. However, ideally your BR should keep climbing. It's obviously good to analyze why you are missing questions untimed. Was it a confidence error or are you not understanding the logic? I think part of the reason my BR is so high is that I am under confident a lot. I have a tendency to circle a lot of questions, so I'm usually catching most of the ones that I got wrong and have a chance to correct them.

Pride Only Hurts

@"Leah M B" said:
I would say, in nerdy LSAT language, having a high 170s BR score is sufficient but not necessary. I typically BR 175+ and hit 180 once but am stuck in the 168-169 range timed. So, having a high BR also doesn't necessarily mean that you will score in the 170s. However, ideally your BR should keep climbing. It's obviously good to analyze why you are missing questions untimed. Was it a confidence error or are you not understanding the logic? I think part of the reason my BR is so high is that I am under confident a lot. I have a tendency to circle a lot of questions, so I'm usually catching most of the ones that I got wrong and have a chance to correct them.

Haha totally understand. But hey congrats on getting to that point! the jump from 165-170 is said to be the hardest jump to make. I'm stuck in the lower part of that range right now.

What's your target score and are you taking the November exam?

Leah M B

@"Pride Only Hurts" said:

@"Leah M B" said:
I would say, in nerdy LSAT language, having a high 170s BR score is sufficient but not necessary. I typically BR 175+ and hit 180 once but am stuck in the 168-169 range timed. So, having a high BR also doesn't necessarily mean that you will score in the 170s. However, ideally your BR should keep climbing. It's obviously good to analyze why you are missing questions untimed. Was it a confidence error or are you not understanding the logic? I think part of the reason my BR is so high is that I am under confident a lot. I have a tendency to circle a lot of questions, so I'm usually catching most of the ones that I got wrong and have a chance to correct them.

Haha totally understand. But hey congrats on getting to that point! the jump from 165-170 is said to be the hardest jump to make. I'm stuck in the lower part of that range right now.

What's your target score and are you taking the November exam?

Thanks Ideally, I'd like to just break 170. I already have a 168 on record, so I'm in pretty good shape for T20, where I think I'll probably end up. But I'd like to crack 170 to have a shot at lower T14 with scholarship. I'm registered for November... I've postponed a few times, but think I'll likely take it then.

Pride Only Hurts

@"Leah M B" said:

Thanks Ideally, I'd like to just break 170. I already have a 168 on record, so I'm in pretty good shape for T20, where I think I'll probably end up. But I'd like to crack 170 to have a shot at lower T14 with scholarship. I'm registered for November... I've postponed a few times, but think I'll likely take it then.

That's awesome you're in a great position to hit that score! That's funny, I'll be happy with anything above a 168. (I've postpones a few times now too so I'm ready to be done).

Bamboosprout

It's not necessary, but I think there is a high correlatory relationship and perhaps a bit of a causal relationship too. I think it depends on your BR habits.
My BR is typically anywhere between 5-10 points higher than my PT score, but despite the high variability, I think having a high BR really helps. Having a high BR requires at least recognizing your doubts and weaknesses, so it's a clear causal relationship that can bring your PT score up if you identify and resolve your doubt and weakness.
For me, I actually do PT pretty weirdly, which is why my average BR has higher than average variety. I sometime do my PT focusing on speed and lower my standard for confidence when skipping and reduce my time limit (to induce more stress and worst case scenarios) and circle as few questions as possible, and other times, I circle almost every question I'm not 100% sure about. As a result, sometimes my BR is only 2 points higher, and other times, I get 180.
As always, a BR score is suppose to indicate what your maximum understanding of the test is, so in my perspective, if you're not able to get a 180 in BR in your best condition, then you likely cannot consistently get above 170, and it would be a good idea to figure out why you cannot get 180 and refer back to the core curriculum.

Pride Only Hurts

@Bamboosprout said:
It's not necessary, but I think there is a high correlatory relationship and perhaps a bit of a causal relationship too. I think it depends on your BR habits.
My BR is typically anywhere between 5-10 points higher than my PT score, but despite the high variability, I think having a high BR really helps. Having a high BR requires at least recognizing your doubts and weaknesses, so it's a clear causal relationship that can bring your PT score up if you identify and resolve your doubt and weakness.
For me, I actually do PT pretty weirdly, which is why my average BR has higher than average variety. I sometime do my PT focusing on speed and lower my standard for confidence when skipping and reduce my time limit (to induce more stress and worst case scenarios) and circle as few questions as possible, and other times, I circle almost every question I'm not 100% sure about. As a result, sometimes my BR is only 2 points higher, and other times, I get 180.
As always, a BR score is suppose to indicate what your maximum understanding of the test is, so in my perspective, if you're not able to get a 180 in BR in your best condition, then you likely cannot consistently get above 170, and it would be a good idea to figure out why you cannot get 180 and refer back to the core curriculum.

I think I'm going to try focus on circling questions i'm not 100% sure about because I typically forget to circle those iffy questions and have to look for them in BR. Typically I'm able to get 90% of my circled questions correct in BR. It's usually the overconfidence errors that get me. I'd say I miss on average 3 questions in LR due to overconfidence/rushing.

Bamboosprout

@"Pride Only Hurts" said:

@Bamboosprout said:
It's not necessary, but I think there is a high correlatory relationship and perhaps a bit of a causal relationship too. I think it depends on your BR habits.
My BR is typically anywhere between 5-10 points higher than my PT score, but despite the high variability, I think having a high BR really helps. Having a high BR requires at least recognizing your doubts and weaknesses, so it's a clear causal relationship that can bring your PT score up if you identify and resolve your doubt and weakness.
For me, I actually do PT pretty weirdly, which is why my average BR has higher than average variety. I sometime do my PT focusing on speed and lower my standard for confidence when skipping and reduce my time limit (to induce more stress and worst case scenarios) and circle as few questions as possible, and other times, I circle almost every question I'm not 100% sure about. As a result, sometimes my BR is only 2 points higher, and other times, I get 180.
As always, a BR score is suppose to indicate what your maximum understanding of the test is, so in my perspective, if you're not able to get a 180 in BR in your best condition, then you likely cannot consistently get above 170, and it would be a good idea to figure out why you cannot get 180 and refer back to the core curriculum.

I think I'm going to try focus on circling questions i'm not 100% sure about because I typically forget to circle those iffy questions and have to look for them in BR. Typically I'm able to get 90% of my circled questions correct in BR. It's usually the overconfidence errors that get me. I'd say I miss on average 3 questions in LR due to overconfidence/rushing.

Yeah, same, I still miss LR questions due to overconfidence, but honestly, I think for most people, overconfidence is a smaller problem than underconfidence, hahaha. When practicing to improve competency, it's definitely a good idea to circle more and be more sure. The only time when I would suggest against it is when you're preparing for the actual test. For that, I usually want to rush more and lower my bar for confidence, and only circle about 5-6 questions max (so that I actually have time to go over time during review).