I've been struggling with the wording after the lawgical part, I think thats whats tripping me up the most.
for example, for 1. I put AS -> Philadelphia, /philadelphia -> /AS.
However the answer is philadelphia -> sunny, /AS/ Philadelphia.
I have 0 idea why this is wrong and also dont get the worded version. Is the contrapositive version If its not always sunny then it is not philadelphia?
@JeffreyRamirez If you are stuck mixing up the group 1 and 2 indicators, but recognize the conditional relationship, you can always think through it logically by rephrasing!
"It's always sunny in Philadelphia"
Think: Is this saying (1) "if it's sunny, I'm in Philadelphia" or rather (2) "if I'm in Philadelphia, it is sunny".
Thinking through it, this has to be the latter (2). The first doesn't make sense because it could be sunny in other places, not just Philadelphia! The second makes sense as another rephrasing of the sentence because if you're in Philadelphia, it's always sunny! It matches up with the original sentences' concept.
"particular frequency" is misleading. It doesnt mean it always happens, it actually means most times it happens. Can we asusme conditional relationship?
I got 5/5! For me it has been difficult to translate but after I wrote down the indicators for group 1 and 2 it became much easier. I feel like I'm finally understanding.
I think what is happening is that even though the exercise says "Group 2" which is necessary conditions, almost all the questions are actually sufficient condition questions. Actually it's helpful, because it is practice on distinguishing both. Once clear on that, the quiz helps and is straightforward.
I am confused by this. In the necessary indicators Group 2 the words "only", "always", and "must" are used. For question 2, how is "every time" not a necessary condition indicator? Why is a sufficient condition indicator.
I just looked at the conditional indicators and for question 3 Only is a necessary condition not suffieicient, can someone clarify I am not understanding why they are using it in the example as suffiencient when only is necessary
@Kevin_Lin The video for the lesson didn't have "the only" listed as one of the indicators but the text below the video does. Are we supposed to be watching the videos AND reading the text? Is it possible to have the text and videos be consistent with one another?
@SMRegalado Remember that these lists or groups of logical indicators are often too broad or too narrow. The word "only" does not always show a necessary condition. In this case, "only" points to a sufficient condition because many other things can count as being "written down" (like a book or a note). But if you reversed the idea, just because something is "written down" would not be enough to assume it’s the only oral myth that survived.
The main difference lies in the words that come before or after "only." The phrase "the only" is quantitative; it limits the number of possible options to a specific subset. In contrast, when "only" appears before a verb or clause, such as "only if" or "only when" it often points to a conditional relationship, which can change whether it signals a sufficient or necessary condition depending on context.
Ultimately, I think understanding this takes practice. You shouldn’t rely on the indicator words alone use them as a helpful tool, not as your main guide.
Number 4 confuses me a bit; why if the necessary condition immediately follows the indicator, does it not have "abundant rain falls" on the right side of the arrow? "Abundant rain falls" immediately follows the indicator of "when", so I had it set up as:
hurricanes hit U.S. mainland frequently → abundant rain falls in Sub-Saharan Africa
This is wrong, obviously, but why? The others make sense to me but this one is tripping me up.
I think the contrapositive is actually what helped me with this a lot. Sometimes I would start with that and work backwards to figure out the logic of what the sentence was saying. Maybe won't work with more complex things, but it helped me figure out which one was sufficient and which one was necessary.
hello, i want someone to check my understanding for question 1, "its always sunny in Philly." my understanding was that "its" isn't enough; we need to categorize two ideas, so theres some nuance and its fine. so the main ideas were sunny and Philly. besides, always indicates neccessary condition.
@new_cheese I 100% agree with your logic, although the phrase "It's always sunny in Philadelphia" isn't factually true either, it is just the title of a funny show.
But to piggy back off of the "Necessary" indicator, being "always"...anything coming after "always" needs to be on the right side of the arrow... hence: Philly --> Sunny and the contrapositive /Sunny -->/Not Philly. Not rooted in reality at all, so I would agree this is one of those over-inclusive cases.
Can someone please explain to me how on number three - the "oral myths that have survived" is a sufficient condition when the indicator before it says "the only"? I thought "Only" was an indicator of a necessary condition.
@KayleeMurray Going through this module as a conditional logic refresher before my test this week, and what I found is that if you can intuitively translate the sentences into logical if-thens, which one is the sufficient condition and which one is the necessary will be easy to spot. So for #3, after I read it i went "okay so if it was an oral myth that survived, then it was one that that was eventually written down." OMS --> EWD (/EWD --> /OMS). Obviously with super convoluted sentences it's much harder to do this, but I did it with Q 1-6 and worked out every time.
@KayceBassman I just copied this from another time I posted it but here is how I learned them.
For those of you who noticed that "Only" is mentioned both in the group 1 indicators and in the group 2 indicators the way that I found that is simple to remember it is "THE ONLY time it is group 1 is when it says THE ONLY". Every other time that only is used as an indicator it is referring to group 2 (only, only if, only where, only when). For some reason I naturally want to start out that sentence with "the only" every time which makes it easy because it matches.
Group 2 Logical Indicators
(R.O.M.A)
-Requires (not listed but if x requires y then it is the same type of relationship)
-Only, only if, only when, only where
-Must
-Always
Note: I am choosing to think of "requires" as the same as a Group 2 indicator because the Nec. idea would follow the indicator but if the wording is anything slightly off from "X requires Y" then read it carefully and figure out what direction the "require" word is pointing you to. "Required" would point the other way.
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429 comments
meow
What really helped me transform the sentences into Lawgic was to do the if, then statement.
For example, on question 4:
If abundant rain falls in sub-Saharan Africa, then hurricanes would hit the US mainland with particular frequency.
This helps me fully grasp the order of the sufficient and necessary conditions.
I've been struggling with the wording after the lawgical part, I think thats whats tripping me up the most.
for example, for 1. I put AS -> Philadelphia, /philadelphia -> /AS.
However the answer is philadelphia -> sunny, /AS/ Philadelphia.
I have 0 idea why this is wrong and also dont get the worded version. Is the contrapositive version If its not always sunny then it is not philadelphia?
any help would be greatly appreciated!!
@JeffreyRamirez Ive come to figure this out and realize I've been confusing group two and group 1. rewatching the videos and practicing helped a ton!
@JeffreyRamirez If you are stuck mixing up the group 1 and 2 indicators, but recognize the conditional relationship, you can always think through it logically by rephrasing!
"It's always sunny in Philadelphia"
Think: Is this saying (1) "if it's sunny, I'm in Philadelphia" or rather (2) "if I'm in Philadelphia, it is sunny".
Thinking through it, this has to be the latter (2). The first doesn't make sense because it could be sunny in other places, not just Philadelphia! The second makes sense as another rephrasing of the sentence because if you're in Philadelphia, it's always sunny! It matches up with the original sentences' concept.
is 'the only ' here in q2 be understand as all? the overinclusiveness of 'only' really confuses me
For some reason I am not understanding number 5. Since it's sufficient why is it not
Not communication --> Family ties fray and snap
/(family ties fray and snap) --> /(no communication)
Is it because at the beginning there's a "no" which is already negating? Please help!
Yes, the "no" is already negating. You have it correct, don't worry.
I made flash cards to help memorize group 1-4 conditional indicators, thought I’d share in case it would be helpful to anyone else. I’m redoing this course after getting through most of it and taking the lsat and not doing as well as I hoped. Looking back I realize how important it is to know these. https://quizlet.com/1153975729/lsat-7sage-conditional-indicators-to-share-flash-cards/?i=71yhg9&x=1jqY
@Elideebeep thank you
@AsmaAldhufri of course! :)
"particular frequency" is misleading. It doesnt mean it always happens, it actually means most times it happens. Can we asusme conditional relationship?
"The only" is the only sufficient "only" ...helped me immensely to remember that. Lol.
I got 5/5! For me it has been difficult to translate but after I wrote down the indicators for group 1 and 2 it became much easier. I feel like I'm finally understanding.
I think what is happening is that even though the exercise says "Group 2" which is necessary conditions, almost all the questions are actually sufficient condition questions. Actually it's helpful, because it is practice on distinguishing both. Once clear on that, the quiz helps and is straightforward.
I am confused by this. In the necessary indicators Group 2 the words "only", "always", and "must" are used. For question 2, how is "every time" not a necessary condition indicator? Why is a sufficient condition indicator.
I just looked at the conditional indicators and for question 3 Only is a necessary condition not suffieicient, can someone clarify I am not understanding why they are using it in the example as suffiencient when only is necessary
@LauraBolivar https://7sage.com/lessons/foundations/conditional-and-set-logic/group-1-sufficient-condition-indicators
There's a difference between "The only" and "only." "The only" introduces a sufficient condition.
= studied --> As
As --> studied
@Kevin_Lin The video for the lesson didn't have "the only" listed as one of the indicators but the text below the video does. Are we supposed to be watching the videos AND reading the text? Is it possible to have the text and videos be consistent with one another?
4/5. Both Sufficient and Necessary have only indicators. Didn't see the "the"
5/5
aren't these mostly group 1 words? "the only", "when", "where"
5/5 thankful I took logical reasoning in freshman year of college, otherwise I probably wouldn't have passed any
Can someone clarify why #3 has 'the only' as a group 1 word. According to the lessons, 'only' only appears in group 2.
@SMRegalado Remember that these lists or groups of logical indicators are often too broad or too narrow. The word "only" does not always show a necessary condition. In this case, "only" points to a sufficient condition because many other things can count as being "written down" (like a book or a note). But if you reversed the idea, just because something is "written down" would not be enough to assume it’s the only oral myth that survived.
The main difference lies in the words that come before or after "only." The phrase "the only" is quantitative; it limits the number of possible options to a specific subset. In contrast, when "only" appears before a verb or clause, such as "only if" or "only when" it often points to a conditional relationship, which can change whether it signals a sufficient or necessary condition depending on context.
Ultimately, I think understanding this takes practice. You shouldn’t rely on the indicator words alone use them as a helpful tool, not as your main guide.
@SauceBoss this was more helpful than the video. thank you
@SauceBoss thank you for your help sauce boss
@SauceBoss you the goat sauce boss
Number 4 confuses me a bit; why if the necessary condition immediately follows the indicator, does it not have "abundant rain falls" on the right side of the arrow? "Abundant rain falls" immediately follows the indicator of "when", so I had it set up as:
hurricanes hit U.S. mainland frequently → abundant rain falls in Sub-Saharan Africa
This is wrong, obviously, but why? The others make sense to me but this one is tripping me up.
@SarahIngram There are sufficient condition indicators and necessary condition indicators. "When" introduces a sufficient condition (like "if").
@Kevin_Lin THANK YOU, I was confusing it with "ONLY when". Thought I was going crazy for a sec
Necessary Condition (NC) = Superset
Sufficient Condition (SC) = Subset
If SC is met then the NC is also me.
However the NC can be met while the SC is not. (Kamar being late but not getting cited).
This breakdown has helped me sooo much.
The only way I can get all of these questions right is by reading the lesson notes...
I think the contrapositive is actually what helped me with this a lot. Sometimes I would start with that and work backwards to figure out the logic of what the sentence was saying. Maybe won't work with more complex things, but it helped me figure out which one was sufficient and which one was necessary.
Philadelphia → sunny
/sunny → /Philadelphia
Therefore,
(1)philadelphia is always sunny
(2) If its not sunny, its not in Philadelphia
even though 2 is factually incorrect, is this the right way to go about it? please help
hello, i want someone to check my understanding for question 1, "its always sunny in Philly." my understanding was that "its" isn't enough; we need to categorize two ideas, so theres some nuance and its fine. so the main ideas were sunny and Philly. besides, always indicates neccessary condition.
The first one makes sense when I don't think about what he did in the previous example.
Late -> 5+ was written in that order.
Sunny -> Philidelphia. I follow the same logic but apparently it's wrong.
@CMas I thought of it like this
when --> then
So
when you're in Philly, it's always sunny.
so Philly -> Sunny
But the logic sunny -> philly is saying is when it's sunny, you're in Philly which is a different idea.
That means if you're out even in New York, and the sun is out, you're in Philly. That isn't what the phrase is saying.
Sunny is not in the smaller circle, it's the superset.
@new_cheese I 100% agree with your logic, although the phrase "It's always sunny in Philadelphia" isn't factually true either, it is just the title of a funny show.
But to piggy back off of the "Necessary" indicator, being "always"...anything coming after "always" needs to be on the right side of the arrow... hence: Philly --> Sunny and the contrapositive /Sunny -->/Not Philly. Not rooted in reality at all, so I would agree this is one of those over-inclusive cases.
But in this world of Lawgic, it goes!
Can someone please explain to me how on number three - the "oral myths that have survived" is a sufficient condition when the indicator before it says "the only"? I thought "Only" was an indicator of a necessary condition.
Anyone help me?
@KayceBassman i also thought this, after reading the comments people said "the only" should go in group 1 but idk
@KayleeMurray Going through this module as a conditional logic refresher before my test this week, and what I found is that if you can intuitively translate the sentences into logical if-thens, which one is the sufficient condition and which one is the necessary will be easy to spot. So for #3, after I read it i went "okay so if it was an oral myth that survived, then it was one that that was eventually written down." OMS --> EWD (/EWD --> /OMS). Obviously with super convoluted sentences it's much harder to do this, but I did it with Q 1-6 and worked out every time.
@apple Thank you!
@KayceBassman I just copied this from another time I posted it but here is how I learned them.
For those of you who noticed that "Only" is mentioned both in the group 1 indicators and in the group 2 indicators the way that I found that is simple to remember it is "THE ONLY time it is group 1 is when it says THE ONLY". Every other time that only is used as an indicator it is referring to group 2 (only, only if, only where, only when). For some reason I naturally want to start out that sentence with "the only" every time which makes it easy because it matches.
Group 2 Logical Indicators
(R.O.M.A)
-Requires (not listed but if x requires y then it is the same type of relationship)
-Only, only if, only when, only where
-Must
-Always
Note: I am choosing to think of "requires" as the same as a Group 2 indicator because the Nec. idea would follow the indicator but if the wording is anything slightly off from "X requires Y" then read it carefully and figure out what direction the "require" word is pointing you to. "Required" would point the other way.
@WillowBound2 Thanks! This one got me
@apple you could have reversed that logic and been valid and also incorrect.