#feedback For anyone confused on Q3, "the only" is a group 1 - sufficient indicator. In Lesson 16, if you took notes from the video and not the written explanation, you may have missed it (like me lol).
as others have said, the video on group 1 indicators must be edited because i too am only watching the videos, and the list did not include "the only" so question 3 had me very confused.
@joannaw "The only" is a sufficient indicator; "only" and "only if" are necessary indicators. Question 3 states "the only oral myths..." means that oral myths will be the sufficient indicator.
@joannaw So here I read it as these oral myths survived and nothing else instead of reading it as oral myths survived only because of blah blah blah. It's like saying "She was the only person in the room" vs. "She can only be in the room if there are other people there" Just my two cents! I hope this helps!
@VanessaMancuso23 go back a couple lessons. Its in the sufficient list.
And try it out for yourself. Try to form "The only oral myths that have survived are the ones that were eventually written down." in such a way that "only" comes before "written down" instead of "survived". You won't be able to use "the only", you'll have to use "only" by itself. ie, "Only the myths that were written down are the ones that survived".
Its kinda an anecdotal exercise to prove to yourself there is more of a significant difference between "the only" and "only" than first meets the eye!
"the only" marks sufficiency and "only" marks necessity.
Just like "if" marks sufficiency and "only if" marks necessity!
@Jbshallenberger - I am also confused on #3. I went back to the previous video that introduced the Group 2 indicators, and "only" is at the top of the Group 2 indicators:
@Jbshallenberger I had the same thought, but I think it would change if it said something like "Only oral myths that have survived were eventually written down."
As a thought experiment, if there were 5 oral myths that were written down, then all 5 of those survived because they were written down. There may be 10 total surviving oral myths, but it is not a necessary condition that all of them be written down. The other 5 may have survived for other reasons (maybe they are really captivating stories that never needed to be written down.)
Maybe another way to think about it is to say that even if we remove the word "only" from the question stimulus, it would not change the meaning of the sentence:
"The only oral myths that have survived are the ones that were eventually written down."
This is a very poor explanation of #3. I have enjoyed this program until this point. But he has taken many liberties and made many assumptions leading a very incomplete explanation of the process used on #3. And that is also clearly voiced in the comments. This is disappointing. Edit the video here, draw the subset and super set, and provide further clarity for this question. Again, it is clear by reading the comments (over 350 and counting) that people are not only struggling with this question, but they find the explanation to be incomplete and insufficient for complete understanding.
Edit: Now that I have focused on the other questions more closely, I can say that most of the explanations of this video are not like previous videos. The explanations need to have more detail. Every single one should have a diagram and all of them should be translated back into English after the contrapositive. This is still early in the core curriculum. Many of us (again, check the comments) are searching for clarity. We have not ventured this far into the core curriculum because we are doing this as a hobby. We are driven and care a great deal about understanding all of the content. Hopefully you will consider editing this video. For those that did not see the group one list and "the only" was missing from the video: while I understand your frustration, and empathize, it was clearly an oversight. That kind of mistake is easily rectified by reading the text or reading the discussion.
However, 7Sage, what isn't easily rectified is brief and/or incomplete explanations of process and solutions. I have really enjoyed and appreciated this program thus far. However, please improve the video for this lesson. Thank you.
@StanHolt nah. A large amount of people struggling does not mean its poorly explained. It seems a large amount of people are simply forgetting that "the only" is a sufficient condition indicator and "only" is a necessary condition indicator. That is not the fault of the curriculum. Its a failure of the students. And I say that as someone that is in the group that forgot. Its ok
Can someone please explain to me how on number three - the "oral myths that have survived" is a sufficient condition when the indicator before it says "the only"? I thought "Only" was an indicator of a necessary condition.
@KayleeMurray Going through this module as a conditional logic refresher before my test this week, and what I found is that if you can intuitively translate the sentences into logical if-thens, which one is the sufficient condition and which one is the necessary will be easy to spot. So for #3, after I read it i went "okay so if it was an oral myth that survived, then it was one that that was eventually written down." OMS --> EWD (/EWD --> /OMS). Obviously with super convoluted sentences it's much harder to do this, but I did it with Q 1-6 and worked out every time.
@KayceBassman I just copied this from another time I posted it but here is how I learned them.
For those of you who noticed that "Only" is mentioned both in the group 1 indicators and in the group 2 indicators the way that I found that is simple to remember it is "THE ONLY time it is group 1 is when it says THE ONLY". Every other time that only is used as an indicator it is referring to group 2 (only, only if, only where, only when). For some reason I naturally want to start out that sentence with "the only" every time which makes it easy because it matches.
Group 2 Logical Indicators
(R.O.M.A)
-Requires (not listed but if x requires y then it is the same type of relationship)
-Only, only if, only when, only where
-Must
-Always
Note: I am choosing to think of "requires" as the same as a Group 2 indicator because the Nec. idea would follow the indicator but if the wording is anything slightly off from "X requires Y" then read it carefully and figure out what direction the "require" word is pointing you to. "Required" would point the other way.
@KayceBassman i kind of took it as we are only speaking on oral myths that are passed down have been written. So like if they haven't been written down they have not been passed down and wouldn't have fallen to the set of oral myths that we being talked about.
I'm one of the confused group about question 3. When there is a "the" in front of "only", it is a sufficient condition indicator, but if I get rid of "the", it becomes necessary condition indicator. So if this sentence is "Only oral myths that have survived are the ones those were eventually written down.", Lawgic would be written down-->survived? This doesn't make much sense to me bcs those two sentences sound the same to me.
I do not understand question 3. If the necessary condition goes after the arrow, sufficient condition → necessary condition. And the indicator introduces the nessary condition, in this case "only" oral myths that have survived are the ones that were eventually written down.
wouldn't the answer be "written down-> oral myths that survived" instead of the other way around?
"The only" is an indicator word for group 1. It can be a bit confusing since most of the words for group 2 contain only. In the group 1 lesson, he doesn't add 'the only' to the indicator set until the review of the lesson.
I believe that this is one of those scenarios where we can't always assume that "only" is going to indicate the necessary condition. I made this mistake too.
@nathalieleija338 i think of it in terms of sets; "the only" sounds like a subset since the entire group would have to be contained within the "myths that were written down" superset.
#feedback: Questions like #3 actively throw me off what would otherwise be a solid learning course. I'm getting the impression that it's meant to show an outlier to the rules for necessary condition signifiers, but I'd rather you just let me learn the basic rules before throwing outlier examples at me.
As it's set up now, I feel like #3 contradicts what the course taught me, making me less likely to rely on necessary signifiers as a whole moving forward. It doesn't help that the video explanation makes no mention at all of the obvious contradiction.
I think doing a visual graphic before lawgic would help here as "written down myths" would be the superset as it is necessary for "the ones that have survived" subset
Question 3 is not showing an outlier. Question 3 is tricky because it's a group 1 indicator, not group 2. "The only" is group 1, while "only", "only if", "only when", and "only where" are all group 2 indicators.
I just looked at the conditional indicators and for question 3 Only is a necessary condition not suffieicient, can someone clarify I am not understanding why they are using it in the example as suffiencient when only is necessary
@Kevin_Lin The video for the lesson didn't have "the only" listed as one of the indicators but the text below the video does. Are we supposed to be watching the videos AND reading the text? Is it possible to have the text and videos be consistent with one another?
4/5! But why is #3 approached as a sufficient condition? Isn't 'only' a necessary condition indicator? Wish the video would have spent more time explaining that rather than breaking down modifiers of the word myth :/
I am confused by this. In the necessary indicators Group 2 the words "only", "always", and "must" are used. For question 2, how is "every time" not a necessary condition indicator? Why is a sufficient condition indicator.
I found 3 confusing. The ONLY myths survived. I wrote it down as written down> myths survived. Because ONLY is an indicator of a necessary condition found on the right side of the equation
Hi!! While it's true that "only" is a group 2 necessary indicator, "the only" is a group 1 sufficient indicator. So, the lawgic on that problem should look a little more like this instead.
The only oral myths that have survived are the ones that were eventually written down.
I'm still unclear why "only" and "the only" would indicate different things.
If I say, "The only reason I am going to the party is because Nelson will be there." versus " I am only going to the party because Nelson will be there."
What is the difference? Why would one sentence indicate a sufficient conditional and the other imply a necessary conditional?
Does this mean "If someone is tall, they play in the NBA"? Or "If someone plays in the NBA, they are tall"?
"The only people who enjoy skydiving are not afraid of heights."
Does this mean "If someone is not afraid of heights, they enjoy skydiving"? Or "If someone enjoys skydiving, they are not afraid of heights"?
"The only people who are in law school are hard-working."
Does this mean "If someone is hard-working, they are in law school"? Or "If someone is in law school, they are hard-working"?
There's some more nuance with "the only," which is why the specific statements you came up with don't seem to fit. I'm not sure that I would even think of those examples as conditionals, although you could think of them as "If something is a reason I am going to the party --> fact that Nelson will be there." That sounds weird, I know, but if we wanted to force a conditional relationship onto it, that's one way to do it. When you come up with examples that involve a singular element like "the only reason," the statement ends up creating a biconditional relationship. "The only US president is Trump." This means "If US president --> Trump" and "Trump --> US president." That's because there's only 1 president; so whoever is president must be the only president.
But when you have "the only" connected to a group, then "the only" introduces a sufficient condition. "The only US senators are lawyers." This doesn't mean every lawyer is a senator. It means "If US senator --> lawyer".
Think about the following statements and you'll see that "the only" introducing sufficient and "only" introducing necessary will make sense:
The only skilled pianists have years of training.
Only those with years of training can be skilled pianists.
The only people who enjoy surgery like the sight of blood.
Only people who like the sight of blood enjoy surgery.
Q3 just had me crash out on my boyfriend and now my dog is scared. Isn't ONLY as necessary condition indicator? But now the comments are saying "the only" is sufficient. Some one help lol
@Malcngham The word "only" doesn't always sit next to the thing that's necessary. Sometimes it's attached to a completely different part of the sentence. You can read it as "Only oral myths that were written down have survived."
I got 5/5! For me it has been difficult to translate but after I wrote down the indicators for group 1 and 2 it became much easier. I feel like I'm finally understanding.
I think what confused me is I assumed that this exercise would have more focus on the group 2 indicators. So I was switching the parts of the idea and getting the logic wrong. For instance we focused on every, only, when and where and I completely forgot those were group 1 indicators. I think this might've been more helpful if they were to actually give us a skill builder that follows the new terms we were given following the lesson: only if, only when, must etc.
@WizTaleefa Thank you! I have been so confused with 4 and 5 because I focused too heavily on "When" and "Where" thinking they were only Group 2 words completely forgetting that they were also Group 1 words. These "indicator" words have just confused me more than assisted.
471 comments
"The only" not being included in the Group 1 indicators video then being the crux for question 3 is a bit whack.
@DavidFranz thank you!! I was looking in here for validation. this tripped me up so bad.
@DavidFranz it def seemed to fit the group 2 indicator list
@dvo1d So "The Only" should be added to the sufficient condition list? Right ?!?!
@DavidFranz "the only" was listed in the text under the video. I've noticed that sometimes the text includes more details than the videos.
"The only" is the only sufficient "only" ...helped me immensely to remember that. Lol.
#feedback For anyone confused on Q3, "the only" is a group 1 - sufficient indicator. In Lesson 16, if you took notes from the video and not the written explanation, you may have missed it (like me lol).
sighs opens comment section
as others have said, the video on group 1 indicators must be edited because i too am only watching the videos, and the list did not include "the only" so question 3 had me very confused.
im confused, i thought only and only if were necessary indicators, but for question 3, why is "only if" a sufficient condition indicator?
@joannaw "The only" is a sufficient indicator; "only" and "only if" are necessary indicators. Question 3 states "the only oral myths..." means that oral myths will be the sufficient indicator.
@joannaw So here I read it as these oral myths survived and nothing else instead of reading it as oral myths survived only because of blah blah blah. It's like saying "She was the only person in the room" vs. "She can only be in the room if there are other people there" Just my two cents! I hope this helps!
7sage is already helping me find a successful career in Bird Law
Charlie, is that you?
@jtlopez4964 If I have a noisy cat, then I will get Kitten Mittens.
Noisy Cat->Kitten Mittens
/Kitten Mittens->/Noisy Cat
I had to go back through the lessons but for question 3
All group 1 indicators consists of
If
When
Where
All
Every
Any
THE ONLY.*
GROUP 2 INDICATORS
only
only if
only when
only where
always
must
I thought it was group 2 indictor but the statement reads "THE ONLY" which is in group 1 indicator.
Hope this helps because I was confused until I went back through the lessons.
Thank you, I was getting hung up on this exact fact.
lolll I bet you added THE ONLY because of PT 102, Section 2, Q23
Thank you!!
Lost me on Question 3:
If the word "only" indicates that a necessary condition will follow, why is it considered the sufficient condition and not the necessary condition?
@Jbshallenberger "The only.." indicates sufficient. This is different than "Only...", which does indicate necessary.
@Jbshallenberger when did it say that "the only" is sufficent ? I did no see that anywhere
@VanessaMancuso23 go back a couple lessons. Its in the sufficient list.
And try it out for yourself. Try to form "The only oral myths that have survived are the ones that were eventually written down." in such a way that "only" comes before "written down" instead of "survived". You won't be able to use "the only", you'll have to use "only" by itself. ie, "Only the myths that were written down are the ones that survived".
Its kinda an anecdotal exercise to prove to yourself there is more of a significant difference between "the only" and "only" than first meets the eye!
"the only" marks sufficiency and "only" marks necessity.
Just like "if" marks sufficiency and "only if" marks necessity!
@Jbshallenberger - I am also confused on #3. I went back to the previous video that introduced the Group 2 indicators, and "only" is at the top of the Group 2 indicators:
@Jbshallenberger I had the same thought, but I think it would change if it said something like "Only oral myths that have survived were eventually written down."
As a thought experiment, if there were 5 oral myths that were written down, then all 5 of those survived because they were written down. There may be 10 total surviving oral myths, but it is not a necessary condition that all of them be written down. The other 5 may have survived for other reasons (maybe they are really captivating stories that never needed to be written down.)
Maybe another way to think about it is to say that even if we remove the word "only" from the question stimulus, it would not change the meaning of the sentence:
"The
onlyoral myths that have survived are the ones that were eventually written down."This is a very poor explanation of #3. I have enjoyed this program until this point. But he has taken many liberties and made many assumptions leading a very incomplete explanation of the process used on #3. And that is also clearly voiced in the comments. This is disappointing. Edit the video here, draw the subset and super set, and provide further clarity for this question. Again, it is clear by reading the comments (over 350 and counting) that people are not only struggling with this question, but they find the explanation to be incomplete and insufficient for complete understanding.
Edit: Now that I have focused on the other questions more closely, I can say that most of the explanations of this video are not like previous videos. The explanations need to have more detail. Every single one should have a diagram and all of them should be translated back into English after the contrapositive. This is still early in the core curriculum. Many of us (again, check the comments) are searching for clarity. We have not ventured this far into the core curriculum because we are doing this as a hobby. We are driven and care a great deal about understanding all of the content. Hopefully you will consider editing this video. For those that did not see the group one list and "the only" was missing from the video: while I understand your frustration, and empathize, it was clearly an oversight. That kind of mistake is easily rectified by reading the text or reading the discussion.
However, 7Sage, what isn't easily rectified is brief and/or incomplete explanations of process and solutions. I have really enjoyed and appreciated this program thus far. However, please improve the video for this lesson. Thank you.
@StanHolt i love you. Thank you so much.
@StanHolt nah. A large amount of people struggling does not mean its poorly explained. It seems a large amount of people are simply forgetting that "the only" is a sufficient condition indicator and "only" is a necessary condition indicator. That is not the fault of the curriculum. Its a failure of the students. And I say that as someone that is in the group that forgot. Its ok
Can someone please explain to me how on number three - the "oral myths that have survived" is a sufficient condition when the indicator before it says "the only"? I thought "Only" was an indicator of a necessary condition.
Anyone help me?
@KayceBassman i also thought this, after reading the comments people said "the only" should go in group 1 but idk
@KayleeMurray Going through this module as a conditional logic refresher before my test this week, and what I found is that if you can intuitively translate the sentences into logical if-thens, which one is the sufficient condition and which one is the necessary will be easy to spot. So for #3, after I read it i went "okay so if it was an oral myth that survived, then it was one that that was eventually written down." OMS --> EWD (/EWD --> /OMS). Obviously with super convoluted sentences it's much harder to do this, but I did it with Q 1-6 and worked out every time.
@apple Thank you!
@KayceBassman I just copied this from another time I posted it but here is how I learned them.
For those of you who noticed that "Only" is mentioned both in the group 1 indicators and in the group 2 indicators the way that I found that is simple to remember it is "THE ONLY time it is group 1 is when it says THE ONLY". Every other time that only is used as an indicator it is referring to group 2 (only, only if, only where, only when). For some reason I naturally want to start out that sentence with "the only" every time which makes it easy because it matches.
Group 2 Logical Indicators
(R.O.M.A)
-Requires (not listed but if x requires y then it is the same type of relationship)
-Only, only if, only when, only where
-Must
-Always
Note: I am choosing to think of "requires" as the same as a Group 2 indicator because the Nec. idea would follow the indicator but if the wording is anything slightly off from "X requires Y" then read it carefully and figure out what direction the "require" word is pointing you to. "Required" would point the other way.
@WillowBound2 Thanks! This one got me
@apple you could have reversed that logic and been valid and also incorrect.
@KayceBassman i kind of took it as we are only speaking on oral myths that are passed down have been written. So like if they haven't been written down they have not been passed down and wouldn't have fallen to the set of oral myths that we being talked about.
I'm one of the confused group about question 3. When there is a "the" in front of "only", it is a sufficient condition indicator, but if I get rid of "the", it becomes necessary condition indicator. So if this sentence is "Only oral myths that have survived are the ones those were eventually written down.", Lawgic would be written down-->survived? This doesn't make much sense to me bcs those two sentences sound the same to me.
I do not understand question 3. If the necessary condition goes after the arrow, sufficient condition → necessary condition. And the indicator introduces the nessary condition, in this case "only" oral myths that have survived are the ones that were eventually written down.
wouldn't the answer be "written down-> oral myths that survived" instead of the other way around?
"The only" is an indicator word for group 1. It can be a bit confusing since most of the words for group 2 contain only. In the group 1 lesson, he doesn't add 'the only' to the indicator set until the review of the lesson.
I believe that this is one of those scenarios where we can't always assume that "only" is going to indicate the necessary condition. I made this mistake too.
@nathalieleija338 i think of it in terms of sets; "the only" sounds like a subset since the entire group would have to be contained within the "myths that were written down" superset.
@jdodson8585 It's listed in the Group 2 lesson as a necessary condition indicator for some reason.
#feedback: Questions like #3 actively throw me off what would otherwise be a solid learning course. I'm getting the impression that it's meant to show an outlier to the rules for necessary condition signifiers, but I'd rather you just let me learn the basic rules before throwing outlier examples at me.
As it's set up now, I feel like #3 contradicts what the course taught me, making me less likely to rely on necessary signifiers as a whole moving forward. It doesn't help that the video explanation makes no mention at all of the obvious contradiction.
I think doing a visual graphic before lawgic would help here as "written down myths" would be the superset as it is necessary for "the ones that have survived" subset
Question 3 is not showing an outlier. Question 3 is tricky because it's a group 1 indicator, not group 2. "The only" is group 1, while "only", "only if", "only when", and "only where" are all group 2 indicators.
I just looked at the conditional indicators and for question 3 Only is a necessary condition not suffieicient, can someone clarify I am not understanding why they are using it in the example as suffiencient when only is necessary
@LauraBolivar https://7sage.com/lessons/foundations/conditional-and-set-logic/group-1-sufficient-condition-indicators
There's a difference between "The only" and "only." "The only" introduces a sufficient condition.
= studied --> As
As --> studied
@Kevin_Lin The video for the lesson didn't have "the only" listed as one of the indicators but the text below the video does. Are we supposed to be watching the videos AND reading the text? Is it possible to have the text and videos be consistent with one another?
@mpolo I back this statement
I didnt understand how is 'The only' a group 1 indicator?
meow
@NolanWright murr
4/5! But why is #3 approached as a sufficient condition? Isn't 'only' a necessary condition indicator? Wish the video would have spent more time explaining that rather than breaking down modifiers of the word myth :/
@hjr210400 In my notes from a previous video, I have "the only" as a sufficient condition indicator, which is what that question starts with.
Maybe if it had started with just "only", then it would've been considered a necessary condition
It is a little confusing though but that's how I was able to get it right.
I made flash cards to help memorize group 1-4 conditional indicators, thought I’d share in case it would be helpful to anyone else. I’m redoing this course after getting through most of it and taking the lsat and not doing as well as I hoped. Looking back I realize how important it is to know these. https://quizlet.com/1153975729/lsat-7sage-conditional-indicators-to-share-flash-cards/?i=71yhg9&x=1jqY
@Elideebeep thank you
@AsmaAldhufri of course! :)
I am confused by this. In the necessary indicators Group 2 the words "only", "always", and "must" are used. For question 2, how is "every time" not a necessary condition indicator? Why is a sufficient condition indicator.
Necessary Condition (NC) = Superset
Sufficient Condition (SC) = Subset
If SC is met then the NC is also me.
However the NC can be met while the SC is not. (Kamar being late but not getting cited).
This breakdown has helped me sooo much.
I found 3 confusing. The ONLY myths survived. I wrote it down as written down> myths survived. Because ONLY is an indicator of a necessary condition found on the right side of the equation
.
Hi!! While it's true that "only" is a group 2 necessary indicator, "the only" is a group 1 sufficient indicator. So, the lawgic on that problem should look a little more like this instead.
The only oral myths that have survived are the ones that were eventually written down.
survived -> written
/written -> /survived
Why wouldn't you clarify that in either video? It is extremely confusing, and I would think that you all would recognize this and address it.
I'm still unclear why "only" and "the only" would indicate different things.
If I say, "The only reason I am going to the party is because Nelson will be there." versus " I am only going to the party because Nelson will be there."
What is the difference? Why would one sentence indicate a sufficient conditional and the other imply a necessary conditional?
"The only people who are in the NBA are tall."
Does this mean "If someone is tall, they play in the NBA"? Or "If someone plays in the NBA, they are tall"?
"The only people who enjoy skydiving are not afraid of heights."
Does this mean "If someone is not afraid of heights, they enjoy skydiving"? Or "If someone enjoys skydiving, they are not afraid of heights"?
"The only people who are in law school are hard-working."
Does this mean "If someone is hard-working, they are in law school"? Or "If someone is in law school, they are hard-working"?
There's some more nuance with "the only," which is why the specific statements you came up with don't seem to fit. I'm not sure that I would even think of those examples as conditionals, although you could think of them as "If something is a reason I am going to the party --> fact that Nelson will be there." That sounds weird, I know, but if we wanted to force a conditional relationship onto it, that's one way to do it. When you come up with examples that involve a singular element like "the only reason," the statement ends up creating a biconditional relationship. "The only US president is Trump." This means "If US president --> Trump" and "Trump --> US president." That's because there's only 1 president; so whoever is president must be the only president.
But when you have "the only" connected to a group, then "the only" introduces a sufficient condition. "The only US senators are lawyers." This doesn't mean every lawyer is a senator. It means "If US senator --> lawyer".
Think about the following statements and you'll see that "the only" introducing sufficient and "only" introducing necessary will make sense:
The only skilled pianists have years of training.
Only those with years of training can be skilled pianists.
The only people who enjoy surgery like the sight of blood.
Only people who like the sight of blood enjoy surgery.
Thanks for the added examples!
Q3 just had me crash out on my boyfriend and now my dog is scared. Isn't ONLY as necessary condition indicator? But now the comments are saying "the only" is sufficient. Some one help lol
@Malcngham
@Malcngham you are right that the word only usually indicates necessary, but “the only” is a sufficient indicator.
@Malcngham The word "only" doesn't always sit next to the thing that's necessary. Sometimes it's attached to a completely different part of the sentence. You can read it as "Only oral myths that were written down have survived."
I got 5/5! For me it has been difficult to translate but after I wrote down the indicators for group 1 and 2 it became much easier. I feel like I'm finally understanding.
I think what confused me is I assumed that this exercise would have more focus on the group 2 indicators. So I was switching the parts of the idea and getting the logic wrong. For instance we focused on every, only, when and where and I completely forgot those were group 1 indicators. I think this might've been more helpful if they were to actually give us a skill builder that follows the new terms we were given following the lesson: only if, only when, must etc.
@WizTaleefa agreed, sometimes my memory needs more chronological testing lol
@WizTaleefa Thank you! I have been so confused with 4 and 5 because I focused too heavily on "When" and "Where" thinking they were only Group 2 words completely forgetting that they were also Group 1 words. These "indicator" words have just confused me more than assisted.