It feels that there is a thin line between "reading between the lines" and making assumptions. I wish to have a clearer understanding of how to separate the two.
@KatiaMiles this is a comment from another user that really helped me understand the difference. It's still a challenge but its a bit more clear now, I hope this helps!
"I'm late to this but hopefully this answer can help someone else! My assumption (haha) is that making assumptions OUTSIDE the passage is dangerous. Let me try and provide an example.
McFlurries are better than Frostys. McFlurries offer more flavors and are richer in their taste. There are also more McDonalds in the US than Wendys, so it is more accessible to the general public. Additionally, McFlurries have more limited edition flavors, which entices the buyer to purchase more.
An assumption that can be made here is that Frostys have fewer limited edition flavors, and that is a drawback because the consumer wants to try limited edition flavors. That's something reasonable to assume, as it is within the boundaries of the passage. An unreasonable assumption to make however, would be something like "McFlurries are actually worse because the ice cream machine is always broken" or "Actually statistically speaking, there are more Wendys per sq. mile in Johnsonville USA so this statement is incorrect." Both these statements rely on outside knowledge or opinion, both of which aren't relevant to the stimulus. I hope this helps!"
Just fyi, it helps me to write out each premise. I feel that practicing these types at a slower pace while writing out the premises will allow us to get faster at it.
As boring as Blind Review can be, it's actually super useful in these sections. Highly recommend utilizing it for future "You Try" lessons, as well as using "Quick View" to answer questions on your own before they're explained in the video lessons, to see if you understand what's being asked before it's explained.
@diakonnatalia I use youtube a lot. I will just search up the topic I am struggling with and there is usually lots of videos by different creators trying to explain the topic. I usually watch until I find someone who explains it in a way that makes the most sense to me since we are all different learners. Do not be bummed about struggling. This test is hard for a reason and it will tear you down before you can get back up. You got this, keep going!
I got all but one of the questions wrong. I don't feel like there was a lot of lesson here other than practicing. But practicing when I'm still not locked on is a problem. I think there should be more here - much more than just referring to old lessons.
I'd like some other tips, strategies, something to help. Comments have been slightly helpful, but it wasn't enough for me to feel even a little confident moving forward.
I feel the same way. I'm going to use youtube and chatgpt to get help reinforce those ideas in MSS questions. I understand MC but MSS is a little difficult for me right now.
Be wary of ChatGPT when it comes to logical reasoning, it is notoriously bad at this kind of thinking. It is weighted towards creativity and encyclopedic knowledge. If you want to use AI, I recommend using Google's NotebookLM and taking the time to find good resources to upload. NotebookLM is tuned to be less creative and therefore be less likely to hallucinate. Also, you will curate the resources feeding it, so hopefully they will be good, not just some dude who claimed to get a 180 and started a blog.
@danaizhaw12 I am also struggling with the MSS questions and find MC to be much more straightforward. It would be helpful if you could please share other external resources you found that helped you, if you don't mind :)
"Another way to think about support is to “read between the lines.”" Then why did we learn that assumptions are wrong? Reading between the lines is pretty close to assuming.
I don't think we are assuming here. We are drawing a valid conclusion/inference by analyzing the given facts.
Consider this sentence: "Dogs are better than cats. Dogs can run fast"
We can infer from the above two sentences that cats can't run fast, which is why dogs are better than cats. We are not assuming that cats can't run fast, we are merely inferring that from the two given statements.
To add, if the sentence was just "Dogs are better than cats" and we then assumed it's because "dogs can run fast" based on our own personal opinion as to why dogs are better than cats, that would be more dangerous. There's nothing in "Dogs are better than cats" that would lead us to believe it's because of their speed. Maybe the real reason is because dogs bark and cats meow.
But having “Dogs are better than cats. Dogs can run fast," we can safely read "Dogs can run fast" as being the support/premise for the claim "Dogs are better than cats"
In one of the drill questions video explanation, JY states "typically we don't do argument analysis in a MSS question"... we don't? why don't we have to? #feedback
#feedback it may be helpful to add the question type to all of the "Review Titles." I like to star the review lessons for future reference, and that would allow me to quickly know what lesson it is reviewing
Thanks so much for sharing your feedback. I'll make sure to share this with our team. We're constantly improving, so every piece of feedback will help us improve.
If you happen to have any other feedback, please don't hesitate to let us know. We're all ears!
I'm getting confused as to what the curriculum says about MSS questions and assumptions. Are we allowed to pick answer choices that are assumptions, but not allowed to make our own assumptions? I think I'm currently picking answer choices that I think are assumptions made by the argument, but are really my own (or vice versa)? How would you differentiate an answer choice that could be true or could be false, with an answer choice that makes a reasonable assumption? Both seem tempting. #Help
Also, remember MSS is not strengthening questions. In strengthening questions, your goal is to look for assumptions and see how they could strengthen or weaken the argument.
For MSS, your goal is to find a conclusion in the answer choices that captures the stimuli better than other answer choices.
For MSS, you are looking for a possible conclusion to the stimuli in the answer choices. The answer choice that's most supported based on the premises in the stimuli is the correct answer choice.
So you are not looking for assumptions. You are looking for a conclusion that makes sense of the premises. In a chaining stimuli, that means finding an answer choice that most closely encapsulate the causal relationship the stimuli is hinting towards.
Sometimes, for the answer choice to make sense of the premises in the stimuli, might give you conclusion that has done some reasonable assumptions. But those assumptions are reasonable because they may directly derive from the premises. Maybe where you are struggling is bringing it assumptions from outside the stimuli.
My thinking when I hunt for the answer choices in MSS is, which of the answer choices will best encapsulate what the premises are trying to get at? That keeps me grounded and anchored to the stimuli. So that even when there is an assumption, I wonder if the premises and the stimuli justifies me from making that assumption. If it doesn't, then forget about it. If it does, are there any other answer choices that makes less assumptions or more reasonable ones? If so, I will go with the other one and forget about the one at hand.
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31 comments
I love seeing an answer that has something thats not even in the excerpt. I cross it out right away. It just makes sense
It feels that there is a thin line between "reading between the lines" and making assumptions. I wish to have a clearer understanding of how to separate the two.
@KatiaMiles I completely agree. Been having a hard time with making the distinction, including in the cat vs. dog example here.
@KatiaMiles this is a comment from another user that really helped me understand the difference. It's still a challenge but its a bit more clear now, I hope this helps!
"I'm late to this but hopefully this answer can help someone else! My assumption (haha) is that making assumptions OUTSIDE the passage is dangerous. Let me try and provide an example.
McFlurries are better than Frostys. McFlurries offer more flavors and are richer in their taste. There are also more McDonalds in the US than Wendys, so it is more accessible to the general public. Additionally, McFlurries have more limited edition flavors, which entices the buyer to purchase more.
An assumption that can be made here is that Frostys have fewer limited edition flavors, and that is a drawback because the consumer wants to try limited edition flavors. That's something reasonable to assume, as it is within the boundaries of the passage. An unreasonable assumption to make however, would be something like "McFlurries are actually worse because the ice cream machine is always broken" or "Actually statistically speaking, there are more Wendys per sq. mile in Johnsonville USA so this statement is incorrect." Both these statements rely on outside knowledge or opinion, both of which aren't relevant to the stimulus. I hope this helps!"
@rjon27 Thank you much! I'll keep this great example in mind next time I try my assumptions :)
Actually, I dont know why but my cat tends to look to the direction I point to.
Just fyi, it helps me to write out each premise. I feel that practicing these types at a slower pace while writing out the premises will allow us to get faster at it.
@Luca1095 I also use the line diagram and place each answer choice along it to rule them out and find the correct choice.
As boring as Blind Review can be, it's actually super useful in these sections. Highly recommend utilizing it for future "You Try" lessons, as well as using "Quick View" to answer questions on your own before they're explained in the video lessons, to see if you understand what's being asked before it's explained.
@Chad1125 Quick view is a great tip, thanks!
Got all the answers wrong lol. I’m pretty bummed. Can anyone recommend other studying resources particularly for this types of questions?
@diakonnatalia I use youtube a lot. I will just search up the topic I am struggling with and there is usually lots of videos by different creators trying to explain the topic. I usually watch until I find someone who explains it in a way that makes the most sense to me since we are all different learners. Do not be bummed about struggling. This test is hard for a reason and it will tear you down before you can get back up. You got this, keep going!
I got all but one of the questions wrong. I don't feel like there was a lot of lesson here other than practicing. But practicing when I'm still not locked on is a problem. I think there should be more here - much more than just referring to old lessons.
I'd like some other tips, strategies, something to help. Comments have been slightly helpful, but it wasn't enough for me to feel even a little confident moving forward.
I feel the same way. I'm going to use youtube and chatgpt to get help reinforce those ideas in MSS questions. I understand MC but MSS is a little difficult for me right now.
Be wary of ChatGPT when it comes to logical reasoning, it is notoriously bad at this kind of thinking. It is weighted towards creativity and encyclopedic knowledge. If you want to use AI, I recommend using Google's NotebookLM and taking the time to find good resources to upload. NotebookLM is tuned to be less creative and therefore be less likely to hallucinate. Also, you will curate the resources feeding it, so hopefully they will be good, not just some dude who claimed to get a 180 and started a blog.
@danaizhaw12 I am also struggling with the MSS questions and find MC to be much more straightforward. It would be helpful if you could please share other external resources you found that helped you, if you don't mind :)
#feedback it would be nice to have a lesson about reading between the lines. It's not intuitive, so practice and theory behind it could help
In the MSS questions, is it necessary to find the main conclusion in the stimulus like MC questions?
not necesarily
Information in the stimulus
→ May not be presented in a clear order: piece the information together & translate.
Support
→ To read between the lines.
→ Drawing out inferences using the support; find the hidden claims that receive support from the stimulus (which could be found among answer choices.)
Patterns in wrong answers
! Wrong answers make you rely on deriving support from outside of the stimulus
→ Merely consistent with
Could be true or wrong. We don't know.
→ Unwarranted assumption & appeal to your common sense intuition
Bait you to push over wrong answers to the supported spectrum
→ Appeal to the biases
- Prescriptive, normative, value-laden claims
- Might be biased towards (or against) them / might agree (or disagree) with them
→ Anti-supported & straight-up contradiction
"Another way to think about support is to “read between the lines.”" Then why did we learn that assumptions are wrong? Reading between the lines is pretty close to assuming.
I don't think we are assuming here. We are drawing a valid conclusion/inference by analyzing the given facts.
Consider this sentence: "Dogs are better than cats. Dogs can run fast"
We can infer from the above two sentences that cats can't run fast, which is why dogs are better than cats. We are not assuming that cats can't run fast, we are merely inferring that from the two given statements.
To add, if the sentence was just "Dogs are better than cats" and we then assumed it's because "dogs can run fast" based on our own personal opinion as to why dogs are better than cats, that would be more dangerous. There's nothing in "Dogs are better than cats" that would lead us to believe it's because of their speed. Maybe the real reason is because dogs bark and cats meow.
But having “Dogs are better than cats. Dogs can run fast," we can safely read "Dogs can run fast" as being the support/premise for the claim "Dogs are better than cats"
In one of the drill questions video explanation, JY states "typically we don't do argument analysis in a MSS question"... we don't? why don't we have to? #feedback
review:
- Patterns in the stimulus
- Patterns in wrong answer
- timing
#feedback it may be helpful to add the question type to all of the "Review Titles." I like to star the review lessons for future reference, and that would allow me to quickly know what lesson it is reviewing
Thanks so much for sharing your feedback. I'll make sure to share this with our team. We're constantly improving, so every piece of feedback will help us improve.
If you happen to have any other feedback, please don't hesitate to let us know. We're all ears!
I'm getting confused as to what the curriculum says about MSS questions and assumptions. Are we allowed to pick answer choices that are assumptions, but not allowed to make our own assumptions? I think I'm currently picking answer choices that I think are assumptions made by the argument, but are really my own (or vice versa)? How would you differentiate an answer choice that could be true or could be false, with an answer choice that makes a reasonable assumption? Both seem tempting. #Help
Also, remember MSS is not strengthening questions. In strengthening questions, your goal is to look for assumptions and see how they could strengthen or weaken the argument.
For MSS, your goal is to find a conclusion in the answer choices that captures the stimuli better than other answer choices.
For MSS, you are looking for a possible conclusion to the stimuli in the answer choices. The answer choice that's most supported based on the premises in the stimuli is the correct answer choice.
So you are not looking for assumptions. You are looking for a conclusion that makes sense of the premises. In a chaining stimuli, that means finding an answer choice that most closely encapsulate the causal relationship the stimuli is hinting towards.
Sometimes, for the answer choice to make sense of the premises in the stimuli, might give you conclusion that has done some reasonable assumptions. But those assumptions are reasonable because they may directly derive from the premises. Maybe where you are struggling is bringing it assumptions from outside the stimuli.
My thinking when I hunt for the answer choices in MSS is, which of the answer choices will best encapsulate what the premises are trying to get at? That keeps me grounded and anchored to the stimuli. So that even when there is an assumption, I wonder if the premises and the stimuli justifies me from making that assumption. If it doesn't, then forget about it. If it does, are there any other answer choices that makes less assumptions or more reasonable ones? If so, I will go with the other one and forget about the one at hand.
This was a very helpful distinction. Thank you!