For the second method, it may seem like second nature, but the reality is that you need to have some reasonable knowledge that doesn't take long to click to understand how a claim is supporting the conclusion.
I feel as though relying on indicator words works best considering they can quite obviously show you whether a statement is a premise or conclusion (also save time on thinking.) If there are no indicator words present, the best thing I can do then is to identify and feel if a passage has said premises and conclusions. Lastly, I’ve noticed that some passages use “x, and x” which seem to show that these X’s are conjoined premises.
For me, I think the largest takeaway for complex questions is the why should I believe you strategy. From the practice questions I've done so far, sometimes the background info can be really long, or the conclusion can be mixed into several premises. I think strategy number two is good for the cases where conclusions aren't obvious.
The method that has helped me the most is what I call the “therefore” method. If the argument has 3 claims (A, B, C), you can test which way the support flows by stating to yourself, “A, therefore B”. If that framing follows logically, then you know that B is closer to the conclusion than A is. I really struggled with establishing flow of support when I started, but this method has helped me a lot.
To extend the idea:
A, therefore B ✅ A supports B
A, therefore C ❎ A does not support C
C, therefore B ✅ C supports B
The chain of support ends at B. B is the conclusion. You can also use this to determine if there are sub-conclusions. Like if C supports A, then A may be a sub-conclusion supported by C, and there is a possibility for assumptions to link premise C and sub-conclusion A.
“Chocolate is better for you than gummy bears [A], so you should choose chocolate instead of gummy bears when getting a treat [B]. After all, chocolate has beneficial compounds that gummy bears lack [C].”
C therefore A therefore B is the best way to frame it. You can also swip-swap the claims around if it’s not quite clicking. Hope this helps some other folks who also have conclusion confusion!
@TobiStein this is sooo good! BUT, since you used the indicators so and after all would it not be less time consuming to identify those in complex questions?
I’m sure there is benefit to memorizing the words that signal to a conclusion, premise, or premise but also a contain a conclusion, but is it a good use of time?
@aTov777 Absolutely a good use of time! I just finished the entire curriculum and came back to review a few things. You will encounter these indicators all day long and having them memorized will save you a lot of headache
@PaulinaBaczkowski think of it like this. Dogs are mammals. After all, they have fur. Here, I am using fur as evidence for my conclusion that dogs are mammals.
Definitely. Which is why the placement of any indicator is very important, and we shouldn't declare something a conclusion just because there's an indicator present.
Do you think that "given that" could also function as a premise indicator? For example, you could say: "Not all mammals are suitable as pets, given that tigers are aggressive and can injure people."
yes, that's why it's under premise indicator. it's a conclusion indicator if it's directly followed by a comma, e.g. "given that, not all mammals are suitable as pets."
as a premise indicator, it's: "given that tigers are aggressive, not all mammals are suitable as pets"
@kdumalo If anything I was thinking it might be a good place to start while analyzing a question. Possibly highlighting indicator words or phrases stick out. And then using method 1 or 2 to verify the claim is actually the conclusion or premise.
Is it possible for the conclusion to be in the middle of an argument? If so, how would that look when determining the premises and conclusion using these methods?
The conclusion can be anywhere in an argument, hence the reason for these methods. These methods would not be necessary if the conclusion were strictly at the end, as it would be easy to identify.
You can start by listing out the given information and then look for indicators to determine whether a statement is a premise or a conclusion. Be cautious, though! The LSAT often isn't very transparent, so it's important to use your own process of elimination as well.
just wanted to put it out there, the LSAT is TRYING to trick/test you. So we can assume (lol) that indicator words can sometimes confuse you more then actually help you. BE CAREFUL folks!
68 comments
Thought I should share this.
For the second method, it may seem like second nature, but the reality is that you need to have some reasonable knowledge that doesn't take long to click to understand how a claim is supporting the conclusion.
I feel as though relying on indicator words works best considering they can quite obviously show you whether a statement is a premise or conclusion (also save time on thinking.) If there are no indicator words present, the best thing I can do then is to identify and feel if a passage has said premises and conclusions. Lastly, I’ve noticed that some passages use “x, and x” which seem to show that these X’s are conjoined premises.
roses are red,
the indicator list is long
i just want to get to the point,
to find out whether i am wrong
@yesterdayseeker this was beautifully written hahaha
Okay, the three methods were very helpful although those are a lot of indicator words.
yeah Im not remembering any of those words lol there's has to be a different way..... please god help me with this hard times
For me, I think the largest takeaway for complex questions is the why should I believe you strategy. From the practice questions I've done so far, sometimes the background info can be really long, or the conclusion can be mixed into several premises. I think strategy number two is good for the cases where conclusions aren't obvious.
Key note about indicators:
afterall: premise
so: conclusion
To identify conclusion and premise:
what is the ONE thing the author is trying to convince you of or trying to make you believe? = conclusion
how is it supported? why should we believe? = conclusion (supported by premise)
Indicator words
@danjpeach96 Thank you! I was about to write it all down but you saved me!
Get to the point ---- find the conclusion
Why should i believe this claim --- like why?
Indicators --- signs from heaven
needed this!
very helpful!
this is so helpful THANK YOU SO MUCH!
The method that has helped me the most is what I call the “therefore” method. If the argument has 3 claims (A, B, C), you can test which way the support flows by stating to yourself, “A, therefore B”. If that framing follows logically, then you know that B is closer to the conclusion than A is. I really struggled with establishing flow of support when I started, but this method has helped me a lot.
To extend the idea:
A, therefore B ✅ A supports B
A, therefore C ❎ A does not support C
C, therefore B ✅ C supports B
The chain of support ends at B. B is the conclusion. You can also use this to determine if there are sub-conclusions. Like if C supports A, then A may be a sub-conclusion supported by C, and there is a possibility for assumptions to link premise C and sub-conclusion A.
“Chocolate is better for you than gummy bears [A], so you should choose chocolate instead of gummy bears when getting a treat [B]. After all, chocolate has beneficial compounds that gummy bears lack [C].”
C therefore A therefore B is the best way to frame it. You can also swip-swap the claims around if it’s not quite clicking. Hope this helps some other folks who also have conclusion confusion!
@TobiStein this is SO helpul!! Thank you
@TobiStein this is sooo good! BUT, since you used the indicators so and after all would it not be less time consuming to identify those in complex questions?
do you think this "theory" information we are learning is mainly being applied to logical reasoning, or is it also applied to reading comprehension?
@AdeenaRashid, to me, both cause reading comprehension is basically a longer version of logical reasoning.
I’m sure there is benefit to memorizing the words that signal to a conclusion, premise, or premise but also a contain a conclusion, but is it a good use of time?
@aTov777 Absolutely a good use of time! I just finished the entire curriculum and came back to review a few things. You will encounter these indicators all day long and having them memorized will save you a lot of headache
@Elecoo how long did it take you to finish the full curriculum?
@Cee🦋 I took a 4 month break in between foundations and the rest, so without counting that, I would say around 2 months
This has to be the most comprehensive work I've ever done on conclusions and premises. Thank you 7Sage.
So in theory, you could read a completely false argument in reality but if the premises support the conclusion, it makes the argument strong?
premise Not every mammal is a good pet.
Support Because…your pet tiger is going to maul your face.
Conclusion Clearly mammals can't be considered good pets.
I cannot reference my own knowledge.
You have to point to the information in the passage.
- If the tiger phrase was the conclusion the mammal phrase does not really support it
- but if you flip it around the tiger phrade does support the mammal phrase
I feel like "after all" seems more like a conclusion indicator than a premise indicator?
@PaulinaBaczkowski think of it like this. Dogs are mammals. After all, they have fur. Here, I am using fur as evidence for my conclusion that dogs are mammals.
Is the list of indicators here exhaustive?
@lizs1 No, not every indicator is included since there are just so many out there
"Given that" could also be a conclusion indicator, right? Essentially if it's saying "Given that previous information, this is the conclusion."
Definitely. Which is why the placement of any indicator is very important, and we shouldn't declare something a conclusion just because there's an indicator present.
Do you think that "given that" could also function as a premise indicator? For example, you could say: "Not all mammals are suitable as pets, given that tigers are aggressive and can injure people."
Makes sense, I should have watched the video before replying!
yes, that's why it's under premise indicator. it's a conclusion indicator if it's directly followed by a comma, e.g. "given that, not all mammals are suitable as pets."
as a premise indicator, it's: "given that tigers are aggressive, not all mammals are suitable as pets"
would it be in my best interest to sit and study all the indicator words? or would that be a waste of time?
Waste of time. Like JY said in the video, there are too many and they are used slightly differently in every stimulus.
I've heard that it is useful to study them but also to keep in mind they are not the end all be all for identifying a premise/conclusion.
@kdumalo If anything I was thinking it might be a good place to start while analyzing a question. Possibly highlighting indicator words or phrases stick out. And then using method 1 or 2 to verify the claim is actually the conclusion or premise.
Is it possible for the conclusion to be in the middle of an argument? If so, how would that look when determining the premises and conclusion using these methods?
The conclusion can be anywhere in an argument, hence the reason for these methods. These methods would not be necessary if the conclusion were strictly at the end, as it would be easy to identify.
You can start by listing out the given information and then look for indicators to determine whether a statement is a premise or a conclusion. Be cautious, though! The LSAT often isn't very transparent, so it's important to use your own process of elimination as well.
just wanted to put it out there, the LSAT is TRYING to trick/test you. So we can assume (lol) that indicator words can sometimes confuse you more then actually help you. BE CAREFUL folks!