Hi all,

So I've been studying for the LSAT for the past 9 months. I started with a 138 and now PTing around 157-159. I struggled to balance studying with a full-time job until I decided to quit in April and focus mainly on the LSAT. Unfortunately, it feels like days are passing by and I'm not improving. I was usually pretty good at LR with -3 to -6 wrong on each section. I would get -5 wrong on the LG and would totally screw up the RC (my worst section). I began focusing on the RC and managed to get -8, but currently miserably messing up the LR. I've registered for the Sept. LSAT and really hoping to gtet at least a 163-165. please give me advice on what I should be focusing my time and energy on. Any tips or suggestions would be useful.

Looking for words of wisdom. Do I keep going and try to get into the October administration, or should I go with the score I have and try to be one of the first applicants? I had a 153 diagnostic, June I hit 167, July was 168. My PTs were consistently in the high 160s with a handful in the 170s. I know plateauing at 168 range was a lot of mental/caught up in my head/fatigue—I got a 177 on an untimed PT where I probably gave myself ~7 min per section longer. I also did a PT with my tutor by my side with help on probably 5-8 questions and I finished each section with ample time and a 179. Thoughts, feelings, general messages of kindness? Thank you in advance!

Scored a 153 on July LSAT which was a bit lower than expected. Looking to get into the 160's for the November test. Is this feasible? I've been studying since January. Still not 100% on LG I believe. I'm guessing I need to FP again?

So I can tell I'm getting a lot better and that my skills are improving significantly, however, it hasn't translated to significant score increases yet. I'm wondering if this is normal when you still haven't taken very many PTs?

I started taking full PTs about a month ago and have to date taken a total of 4. My first full PT was a 162 and since then I've scored 161, 162, and 164 on the latest one (last week). It's somewhat confusing to me tho because I can tell that my skills have improved quite a bit in the last month. This is especially obvious to me during BR where I'm much quicker at identifying correct and incorrect answers, among other things. My last two BRs have been 174 and 175.

I guess I'm just asking if it's normal for your actual PT scores to not necessarily increase as quickly as you feel like your skills have. I hope that makes sense. I'm trying not to get discouraged and keep telling myself I've only taken 4 PTs, but it's still frustrating.

Thanks

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-49457912

Fortunately found an test center for November, but worst case is January too risky for applications?

I started studying long ago for the lsat but I still managed to not do well on my diagnostic :(

I decided to purchase this course it definitely helped but I am still very discouraged . My plan is to write. my lsat this November but in case I do write it in January is there a chance that schools in Canada wont longer look at the application for 2020 ? Any experience ? Recommendations ?

Thanks

I know we are provided paper for the LR section during the digital test, does anyone know if we can use that paper during LG?

My LSAT journey has been more or less a year and a half long, and I just wanted to write a very long post that will hopefully be useful to this community, which has given so much to me. I took the June exam and underperformed (plus I don't know if I ever could have figured out that last game in time) with a 165, and then got a 170 on the July exam. I never took a diagnostic, but I think if I did it would have been pretty bad, because I didn't even know you were supposed to draw diagrams for LG and couldn't really finish an RC or LR section. This was pretty shocking to me, because I had done well on the GRE and consider myself pretty "smart," and I don't think I've even come remotely as close to this long in studying for any other exam. So before I go deeper into some obstacles and my tips for conquering them, I wanted to give a huge thanks to @"Cant Get Right" for our few tutoring sessions (cannot recommend him highly enough) and the vast repository of material he has on 7Sage, @"Logic Gainz" and @"Lucas Carter" for moments of support during some dark times of feeling like I would never reach my goal. And, of course, JY Ping sensei for teaching me everything I know.

Logical Reasoning

Wow where do I even begin with LR. It started off as an atrocious section, and then at the end of my prep became my absolute favorite. I think my journey with LR is the longest, and could probably write an entire post about this alone. But here's an attempt to be succinct:

When you're BRing pretty high, you may be wondering why LR isn't improving, or why it's so inconsistent. The reason is that each section tests you on different distributions of LR questions, that cover different flaws, or use different tricks. One game-changing aspect of my BR was drawing connections to previous LR questions. "Where have I seen this flaw before?" "What was another question where they also wrote the stimulus this particular way?" This, coupled with having more time to just drill section and after section (and in particular retake sections) helped me familiarize myself with the patterns. When you do so many timed sections, and especially retakes, it's impossible for you not to notice the easiest of questions (e.g. ad hominem, sufficiency/necessity confusion, etc.) and also how the harder questions are actually kind of similar.

Once you do a deeper dive into BR, a big thing is timing and when you skip. I've probably written on this before, but Josh's many resources on this were key, and actually the only way for the timing strategies to work is if you have what I wrote above absolutely mastered. But basically, you have to keep your momentum, and get to the end so you can come back and work on questions that didn't quite click for you the first time around. Or, you need to learn to skip when you see something that's just not going to be worth the time. At first, adjusting to a new timing strategy feels weird, because you're thinking about whether to skip or not, but eventually it becomes second nature:

https://classic.7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/13346/confidence-drills

https://classic.7sage.com/webinar/post-core-curriculum-study-strategies/

https://classic.7sage.com/webinar/timing-and-levels-of-certainty/

Basically, same with what I write about RC and LG below, but LR becomes a lot easier when you're not freaking out about time and you just read and try to really understand what the hell the stimulus is telling you. Once you understand what it's saying, and breakdown the components, it's a lot easier to answer the questions. I think earlier in my prep I just ran through the stimulus and tried to engage more with the answers, when the opposite is definitely more important. Practice pre-phrasing and interacting with the stimulus more by covering the answer choices, or writing out answers in BR.

Reading Comprehension

I started doing some of the early RCs and thought things might be fine, but eventually this section killed me. There were several distinct stages for me in terms of coming to understand RC and how to tackle it, and I'm not sure if this is universally applicable, but some of you might resonate with this:

One stage I went through was obviously applying the "memory method" with summaries and low res snapshots. I also wrote out breakdowns of each paragraph and main points in my BR. I feel like this was a learning phase in terms of gaining familiarity with the question types and passage structures which is crucial.

I read this book (https://www.amazon.com/LSAT-Reading-Comprehension-Ultimate-Improvement-ebook/dp/B013KNZ6FM/ref=sr_1_13?keywords=lsat+reading+comprehension&qid=1566494648&s=books&sr=1-13) which emphasizes the importance of understanding how terms of connected, the various author viewpoints, and how the specific subjects don't matter -- you'll often get terms but you don't actually need to understand them so much as just understand when referential phrasing is being used, and who is talking about what.

For this stage, the issue was that I started to annotate way too much, and hold onto way too much information. At the expense of focusing deeply on referential phrasing and breaking down every last aspect of each paragraph (thinking I was "simplifying" it) I ended up missing out on the larger picture (and losing time). Like stage 1, I still think of this as a learning process, but it didn't produce immediate gains.

A corollary to this is that you definitely have time to return to the passage and find key details. It may help to do untimed sections, where you go back to the passage and find where things are mentioned or pointed to before going to the questions (if you don't remember). A lot of RC comes from knowing what the question stem is asking of you (e.g. "What weakens so and so's claim?" -- well, what IS that claim? Where is it? How does it fit into the passage?).

The last thing is that it's okay to go beyond the 8:45 min time for passages. For the July exam I just said I'm going to take as much time as I need, and deal with the consequences at the end. The way it works, if you have enough faith, is that the section is designed to be uneven and finishable -- so you may only have 7 min at the end, but the last passage might be super easy.

Logic Games

This was actually one of my worst sections (or at least very inconsistent) when it came to fresh sections. I fool-proofed almost every game, and definitely all of the ones from PTs 1-35 multiple times, but when it came to new sections I would run out of time, freak out, or just make careless mistakes. I think my biggest advice for this section is that though fool-proofing definitely works, there are a few things that I overlooked while fool-proofing for the longest time:

Don't go into robot mode. Always stop and think upfront and play with the rules -- JY always says this but when you're foolproofing for so long and kind of memorized the games, then you tend to not execute this in practice, and then under the time constraints and pressure on a PT or real exam, you might tend to say "Forget it, I see some 'if' questions, I'm just gonna dive in." So practicing this step while foolproofing is crucial.

You will need to learn how to identify a "rule-driven game" and also know when it's worth playing with the rules even if you don't find any inferences. The latter can feel like a waste of time, but you become more fluent in the rules and then might spot some inferences faster later.

I started a Word document to myself where I would reflect on games and how they're similar to one another, what common mistakes I tend to make, and how the games are basically built. If I ask you, when do you make a chart? You should have a concrete answer for that. This kind of goes with point 1 above, but basically, in the "upfront" time, you need to figure out what you're looking for, and what questions need to be answered. If the distribution of pieces is open ended (typically A must have more members than B or something like that) then you should be asking what the maximum and minimum pieces should be. If the repeatability of pieces is open ended, you need to ask yourself, "Who can/can't repeat?" etc. Deep diving into games like this was crucial, because for the longest time I thought I just needed to keep doing them, and that just doesn't give you the extra mastery you need to conquer totally new games under timed conditions.

Overall Mindset

The theme across all of these sections is that I had a lot of trouble with the timing aspect and pressure of the exam. Focus on mastery, and time will come -- a common mantra, but one that is really, really, hard to believe. You may think you've already reached mastery, or that time will never come naturally, but it really will. And once you reach this point, the next stage is really mentally gearing yourself up for test day. You have to tell yourself that you got this, that you won't lose your cool, and that you have seen everything they can throw at you. What JY says about closing your eyes and taking a few deep breaths does wonders, and a big battle in the LSAT is not just with the questions, but with yourself.

I think this is enough for now, but I will be around on the forums as I work on apps (and maybe think about retaking but probably won't) -- feel free to DM me any questions about anything above, and I will do my best to help you out!

Hey all

So, on my most recent PT, which was PTC, I scored a 155 on the test and a 165 on the BR (which I am very happy about). I have only recently restarted doing tests after the julyexam (where I scored 154). This is my second test I did (scored 155 on PT 40 lol - did not finish the BR yet, planning to redo the test from scratch).

I am VERY happy with my BR score, its the first time i scored 160+! I guess drilling in the LR was a good idea.

I am just a bit worried about my speed, since I am slow and having trouble finishing in the allocated time. My RC was also at like 40-50%, and 90% in my BR (but it took 3x my allocated time).

I wanted to know how long (how many PTs?) it took before you started to score what you would BR at? I am hoping to be prepared by september, if not then, then october. I would be very satisfied with a score of 165 though!

I have also been studying for 3 months or so :)

Hi everyone,

I really need some advice in regards to the LSAT. I have been studying on and off for the LSAT from the past 1 year. I started at around a 140. I am scoring around 150 untimed. I usually get 15-16 questions right per section. I did mention on one of the discussion boards before that I did two undergraduate degrees. I did poorly in my first one, and I did really well in my second degree. I went back to do a second degree for the purposes of going to Law School. Since I had to work super hard in my second degree to compensate for the low grades that I got in my first degree. I want to do the same for the LSAT. I want to show the admissions committee that my grades have an upward trend. My goal is to attain a 170 on the LSAT and I want to be realistic about this score. I was planning to take the exam in September and realized that I am not ready at all. I was planning to take it in October or November (mostly thinking of November). That gives me around 2-3 months. I don't know if that's enough to reach my goal. I am not working or in school, so I have time to study full time. I believe that I am struggling with coming up with a solid plan. I have finished the 7 sage course and I am also studying from the lsat Trainer. I am willing to dedicate as much time as this exam needs.

I get 2-3 questions wrong per game on the games. Sometimes it's stupid mistakes. Questions that I know I can get right.

I get around 15-16 right per LR section (untimed) It takes a while for me to wrap my head around the argument.

RC- I am struggling with timing.

I needed some advice should I redo the course ? and re-read Mike Kim's trainer ?. Or should I just drill questions from different sections ? Since drilling has helped me a lot in terms of seeing where I am getting questions wrong. After that I was planning to pick up my speed. I don't plan on taking a full time preptest any time soon, since I know I won't do good and don't want to waste a prep test. I am willing to dedicate as much time as this exam needs. I just want to make sure that I am going the right way about it.

Sorry the long post. I would really appreciate some advice :)

Thank You

If you like your score and can get in with it but plan on taking the LSAT again. Do you - A - apply (likely get accepted) then assuming the next score is higher, use that for negotiation or B. Wait until you get the 2nd score back to apply.

Hi all,

I started studying for the LSAT in May and decided to sign up for the July exam because I knew I could see my score and cancel it and retake for free in October, thinking I wanted a solid 5 months of studying. By July, I got through around 65% of the 7Sage Core Curriculum, but only ended up taking 1 PT (scored 160) before taking the exam in July. I just got my score back yesterday and was extremely surprised to see I scored a 165 (I expected either high 150s or low 160s). My original target score was a 168 and my dream schools were Duke and Berkeley. Here is my dilemma:

I'm apprehensive about starting to hardcore study again to take the exam in October. I'm just started my senior year as a full-time student and am also working part-time at a law firm for 15 hours/week. I'm not sure if I'll have enough time to dedicate to LSAT studying while maintaining my GPA. I'm kicking myself for not taking more PTs before taking the July exam -- I keep wondering if I could have scored higher if I had. I know it is frowned upon by many schools if you retake the exam to just go up a few points, so I'm thinking my options are either: 1) cancel the 165 and retake aiming for 168-170 and apply in December/January; or 2) keep the 165, focus on applications and apply earlier in October.

Background info: I'm an undergraduate senior at UNC Chapel Hill with a 3.85 GPA.

Any opinions/advice/reassurance would be appreciated! Thanks and good luck with your studies & applications :)

Hey guys and gals, I studied all summer for the Sept LSAT and my first two PTs afterwards I've only improved by 1 point. I'm feeling really discouraged and would like some advice on how to proceed. Thinking about waiting out this year and seeing if I can do better with more studying time under my belt.

Edit: Thanks for the advice, friends. It's so easy to throw up your hands and give up, but the only thing to do is keep working at it and until I understand the material.

7Sage Community,

I came to you all optimistic, wide eyed, and confident that I would ace the LSAT.

That being said, I’m sure as most of you found out quickly, the journey comes with bumps and bruises that showed me how difficult this test really is.

I have worked 40-50 hours every week, got engaged, and got married ALL while studying for the test. I could not have gotten there without the help and support of you all.

I finished my LSAT career on top, 154. To put this in perspective, on my first prep test attempt I didn’t even make it out of the first logic game. I didn’t get more than 5 questions right for LR, and RC left me bewildered at how someone could read so much info so quickly. To go from that place to a 154...I will take it all day everyday.

I’m sure that many will read this and say go for a higher score again, but I am at peace. I studied for a year and a half for this test on my own and with a 7Sage approved tutor (Dave Binghamton, shout out to my dude). There is nothing left to give and that’s okay, some make 170’s...but I made a 154. Damn proud of that sucker too!

I recently finished up writing my Personal Statement and Diversity Statement with the help of the 7Sage Admissions team (Shout out to Selene Steelman). HIGHLY recommend that, if you have the funds, go buy the unlimited edits package. Great deal and even better help!

I start my applications the day they come open, so for many that will be September 1. Not only do I feel confident in my abilities to get into a great law school, but I know I will have a fighting chance thanks to you 7Sage.

Stay humble y’all.

Sincerely & Appreciatively Yours,

Jonah Chadwick Griego

I hope everyone got the scores they wanted. If not, keep up the good work and you will see results on the next test. My first official score was a 162 last November after 7 months of prep, and although that is an objectively good score I was disappointed. My PT scores were higher and I knew I had a lot of room for improvement. Made the difficult decision to delay to this upcoming cycle, and improved to 169 in June after a break and 4 more months of study.

Thrilled with the new score, I checked the section breakdown and was horrified by my RC performance. Worked hard on RC and continued practicing LG and LR every day until a few days before the July test. I participated in BR calls for the first time (thank you J.Y. for leading the RC calls), and grouped up with some very talented 7sagers to work through the June test.

I received a 173 on the July test, and am officially done with the LSAT! I have to attribute this last score jump to the 7sage community. In the 1.5 months leading up to the test, I was far more active on the forums and participated in study groups for the first time. This community of talented and caring people has changed my life forever. For the next month I will be finalizing my application materials, but I am still active on the forums and am available if anyone wants to talk about best practices for BR or LG foolproofing.

It seems like it's a pretty narrow category , so think I might not qualify but I wanted to double check.

I'm mixed race (half middle eastern half white). I'm also a trans women and queer I know that isn't race and ethnicity.

I couldn't look at my LSAT score today. I have struggled so hard with this, that I couldn't bear to be disappointed again. As I write, I sit here with LSAT practice and books in among my work papers and files. I have been at this for what feels like forever. Granted, I did slow down a lot at times, but siting next to a pile of books and scratch paper and printouts has kind of been my life for the past year and a half or so.

Curiosity got the best of me, and I finally looked.

My score improved 9 points. That's just 1 short of my ultimate goal, and well within what I can work with for my target schools. I choked and then cried so hard, my dog came to check on me. When I called my husband, he thought someone had died! LOL This is 12 points higher than my very first diagnostic.

It's finally over. It feels like this day would never come, guys. But, I'm living proof that it does! :)

To those who didn't get what they wanted this time around: keep going. You can, and will, improve if you set your mind to it. I worked, I took very heavy semesters to finish school, I have a family, and while it didn't happen nearly as quickly as I wanted it to (or as fast as it does for a 20-something that has no bills or children), it still happened. Get back up, dust yourself off, and keep going.

A huge thank you to 7sage and the support and love I've gotten from the people here. I know for a fact that you were a key factor in this success, and that the 7sage program helped lay the foundation and provide the practice I needed to get here. The program and the tools you provided gave me the flexibility I needed to keep practicing and learning, even when I couldn't take full practice tests very often.

I am so overwhelmed right now with this score, and I think today, I'm just going to enjoy it before I figure out my next move.

I just want to say THANK YOU SO MUCH TO 7SAGE!!! This course was a life changer and the discussions have been incredibly helpful. I scored a 144 on my first prep test in 2018 and today I learned I received a 167 on my July LSAT.

For those of you studying please give it your all and you will see the results!!

The new digital test is gonna make it so much more difficult for me who likes to take notes or jot down notes for later answering questions... anyone feel me? any thoughts? how do you guys combat that??

Hi everyone,

Let me just begin by saying that when I started the LSAT journey back in January, I would have never thought it would take me this long.

I am thinking of cancelling my registration for September as I have not been able to score higher than 155 on PTs and my target score is a 168. This score combined with my gpa would guarantee me a seat at my target score, and I know I am capable of reaching a 168 since all my blind review scores have been around low to mid170s, the real issue for me is timing. I am entering my 4th year of undergrad in September and I have been studying for the LSAT full-time with 7Sage this summer and I do not want my efforts in the past four months to go to waste especially since I understand the LR content really well. My biggest issue is RC as I consistently score between -13 to -15 and I know I need to be reading more to improve my score.

I don't know how I should approach studying while in school as I want to make sure my gpa is not negatively impacted and I would appreciate any advice. I do not mind delaying graduation as I won't be applying until the next cycle. The two alternatives that came to my mind are taking 2 courses in the first term and aim for the January 13th exam or else take 3 courses per term for the whole year and write the April exam, I would like to write it once by April 2020 as I have a free take from the July exam which I cancelled my score. Again, since I am not applying until September 2020, I want to take advantage of increasing my LSAT score as much as possible and I think if I would take a break throughout the year and comeback to LSAT next April I may not be able to attend my target school.

Also, if anyone else is starting their studies now to write the LSAT next year feel free to message me as I am looking for an accountability partner throughout the academic year.

Hello Everyone,

I have come to realize that I have test anxiety, and I was wondering if you guys could share with me your methods in order to stay calm. I also did extremely bad on the July LSAT and in part I blame my test anxiety. I have noticed my score has improved since taking 7Sage, but it is actually the whole "test day" scaries that gets to me.

Also, does the digital LSAT have a timer anywhere on the screen, or do they call out the time like they always do?

For people who took the July LSAT digitally:

I know LSAC says that scratch paper is allowed for the digital test, but exactly how much is provided?

Hey guys so i'm going to be a senior in college with a 3.85 gpa and I am seeking advice. I've been studying LSAT for around 8 months and its starting to really take a toll. I've made significant improvements from where I started and on my last 5 tests (61-65), I averaged around 170 but my RC score is so volatile and the worst section by far. In the last few months i've only been concentrating on RC and I feel like I am improving but at a very slow pace. My LG is -1 usually and LR is -3 to -6 total

I know if I go into the September exam, I probably won't be able to replicate anywhere near that score because of my RC problems. However I am confident that I can get a 163 or above which would be enough for me to secure UC Irvine and not lose a year. The other alternative would be to postpone the cycle, study more, and take the LSAT next year and shoot for UCLA/USC.

I'm also not looking to work in a big law firm nor any government job. Correct me if I am mistaken, but I've read that everyone wants T-14 because it guarantees them a big law job. So since I know I will not be working there, would it make sense to sink another year on lsat to go from UCI (rank 23) to USC/UCLA (rank 17,15)?

I've talked to some lawyers and they've told me that the school you go to is only important for your first or 2nd job after law school but then after that it all comes down to your work experience(if anyone knows otherwise, please let me know). I also do realize I would be limiting my scholarship opportunities by taking the test and applying this year.

This community has been so helpful to me so I'm hoping you all can advise me (sorry for the lengthy post)

I just got my score for July back and it was higher than I thought it would be given how hard the test felt (yay!). I got a 172. Originally I was planning using July as a practice, since this was my first actual test and I had only taken 3 PTs before it and I figured I could do better, so I registered for the September test before I even took the July test. Since my score was higher than expected I'm not so sure I actually should even take the September one. My post diagnostic PT scores have been 170/173/173/175 (this past weekend). Every BR I've done has been 179.

I am not striving to go to a T-14. I want to practice public interest law, there's a very high possibility I want to become Public Defender but I also want to learn more about immigration law, labor law, or some sort of progressive policy council. No part of me will EVER want any kind of corporate or non public interest law. The biggest thing I am looking for in schools I am applying to be able to go tuition free (ideally with living expenses covered as well) as I don't want to take on debt since I won't be able to pay it off with the kind of law I want to practice.

My undergrad was pass/fail so I don't have a GPA but it was a pretty good school. I have been in the workforce for almost 6 years doing working as a general manager of a business, a mid-higher level work for nonprofits, and I am about to start a job as a Union Field Representative.

My list of schools (with the 75th percentile score in parenthesis) I wanted to apply to initially are as follows:

NYU (172), CUNY (158), Seattle University (157), American University (160), Cardozo (162), University of Washington (165). I've also been considering Georgetown (168) and Columbia (167/172/174-this is the 25/50/75th percentile list).

My considerations over the decision are below:

If I decide to retake, I think there is a very reasonable chance I could score in the 174-177 range. Since July I have studied a lot and really shored up some of my weaknesses in logical reasoning. I'm assuming a higher number will make it easier for me to get a full ride. It's possible if I blew it out of the water I'd consider higher placed school, but since I'm doing Public Interest I don't really see the need to.

If I decide to withdraw and not retake, I free up the next month to focus on getting my application materials together (something I haven't done at all) and could likely apply earlier as a result (October instead of November). I've been told that applying earlier increases my chance for getting scholarships. I'm also starting a new job on Monday so I can devote more attention to adjusting to that. I also don't run the risk of somehow bombing a test and hurting my 172 average I currently have.

Given all of this, what do you all think I should do? Feel free to ask questions!! Thank you!