Scored a 153 on July LSAT which was a bit lower than expected. Looking to get into the 160's for the November test. Is this feasible? I've been studying since January. Still not 100% on LG I believe. I'm guessing I need to FP again?

Hi Everyone,

I was hoping someone would be willing to share their progression in improving the Logic Reasoning section of the LSAT, and how they were able to get good at both speed and accuracy!

I have the $10 one which expires in October but I may possibly want to upgrade to the One Edit plan. Would my subscription also be renewed?

Help! I'm having trouble studying for the RC section of the LSAT. any good advice/tips?

So I can tell I'm getting a lot better and that my skills are improving significantly, however, it hasn't translated to significant score increases yet. I'm wondering if this is normal when you still haven't taken very many PTs?

I started taking full PTs about a month ago and have to date taken a total of 4. My first full PT was a 162 and since then I've scored 161, 162, and 164 on the latest one (last week). It's somewhat confusing to me tho because I can tell that my skills have improved quite a bit in the last month. This is especially obvious to me during BR where I'm much quicker at identifying correct and incorrect answers, among other things. My last two BRs have been 174 and 175.

I guess I'm just asking if it's normal for your actual PT scores to not necessarily increase as quickly as you feel like your skills have. I hope that makes sense. I'm trying not to get discouraged and keep telling myself I've only taken 4 PTs, but it's still frustrating.

Thanks

Hello everyone,

I’m feeling a little down. I just took my second prep test today and scored a 140. I’ve been studying for the LSAT for almost a year now. I started with Kaplan and took two real LSAT tests. On my first one I scored a 141 and on the second one I scored a 146. Not great. Then I decided to start with 7Sage and give it another try but so far I am not seeing a huge difference (not saying that the course is bad cause so far it’s been great). I even quit my full time job recently to take a break and fully focus on studying and practicing for the LSAT which I will be re-taking in November 2019. I usually understand the material and I do great in the practice assessments after each session, but for some reason when it comes to taking the actual prep test or even the real test, the timing messes me up and I have a hard time focusing. If anyone has any helpful advice on how to improve or tips to apply when taking the test please let me know.

I am finding as I work on MBT questions that I seem to get overwhelmed with the sheer amount of information sometimes (they can be quite long) and keep it all lined up in my head while under time. I know scribbling down some of the logic can help but it isn't the most time efficient thing to do, though I'm willing to do it if need be. Any tips, advice or strategies that helped you not feel overwhelmed with all the info to remember? Thanks!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-49457912

Fortunately found an test center for November, but worst case is January too risky for applications?

I started studying long ago for the lsat but I still managed to not do well on my diagnostic :(

I decided to purchase this course it definitely helped but I am still very discouraged . My plan is to write. my lsat this November but in case I do write it in January is there a chance that schools in Canada wont longer look at the application for 2020 ? Any experience ? Recommendations ?

Thanks

I know we are provided paper for the LR section during the digital test, does anyone know if we can use that paper during LG?

What is a PSA question? How is it different than SA?

I attended an honors liberal arts college where we didn't have a traditional grading system. Instead we had a pass/fail style program. This means that I don't have any kind of GPA. The LSAC guidelines say that my narrative evaluations will not be converted into a GPA and says "Credits for the work in these courses are totaled and reported separately as unconverted credits.".

Given that I am not sure how to evaluate my chances of getting into schools/receiving scholarships since every estimator asks me for a GPA. Anyone have any insight into this? Is there a placeholder GPA I can use? Does it hurt? Help?

My LSAT is 172. I'm would go to NYU if I could get a good scholarship, but I'm looking to do exclusively Public Interest so I don't really need to go to a T-14.

If I am forgetting lines in a passage (for example that X rarely occurs or that X percentage of something does something else) that support an AC in a question therefore leading me to getting questions wrong, what larger problem do you think that’s a symptom of? Should I be reading more slowly for nuance and/or is my memory method process faulty?

The scenario that happened more than once in a recent PT is that I thought none of the ACs were supported in a question so I chose “the best” AC begrudgingly even though I recognized the flaws in it. On BR though I ultimately found the part of the passage that supported an AC that I originally thought was unsupported. I realized I had forgotten about a line or part of the passage.

New to the discussion forums, so sorry if this is not worthy of its own post. Just curious.

My LSAT journey has been more or less a year and a half long, and I just wanted to write a very long post that will hopefully be useful to this community, which has given so much to me. I took the June exam and underperformed (plus I don't know if I ever could have figured out that last game in time) with a 165, and then got a 170 on the July exam. I never took a diagnostic, but I think if I did it would have been pretty bad, because I didn't even know you were supposed to draw diagrams for LG and couldn't really finish an RC or LR section. This was pretty shocking to me, because I had done well on the GRE and consider myself pretty "smart," and I don't think I've even come remotely as close to this long in studying for any other exam. So before I go deeper into some obstacles and my tips for conquering them, I wanted to give a huge thanks to @"Cant Get Right" for our few tutoring sessions (cannot recommend him highly enough) and the vast repository of material he has on 7Sage, @"Logic Gainz" and @"Lucas Carter" for moments of support during some dark times of feeling like I would never reach my goal. And, of course, JY Ping sensei for teaching me everything I know.

Logical Reasoning

Wow where do I even begin with LR. It started off as an atrocious section, and then at the end of my prep became my absolute favorite. I think my journey with LR is the longest, and could probably write an entire post about this alone. But here's an attempt to be succinct:

When you're BRing pretty high, you may be wondering why LR isn't improving, or why it's so inconsistent. The reason is that each section tests you on different distributions of LR questions, that cover different flaws, or use different tricks. One game-changing aspect of my BR was drawing connections to previous LR questions. "Where have I seen this flaw before?" "What was another question where they also wrote the stimulus this particular way?" This, coupled with having more time to just drill section and after section (and in particular retake sections) helped me familiarize myself with the patterns. When you do so many timed sections, and especially retakes, it's impossible for you not to notice the easiest of questions (e.g. ad hominem, sufficiency/necessity confusion, etc.) and also how the harder questions are actually kind of similar.

Once you do a deeper dive into BR, a big thing is timing and when you skip. I've probably written on this before, but Josh's many resources on this were key, and actually the only way for the timing strategies to work is if you have what I wrote above absolutely mastered. But basically, you have to keep your momentum, and get to the end so you can come back and work on questions that didn't quite click for you the first time around. Or, you need to learn to skip when you see something that's just not going to be worth the time. At first, adjusting to a new timing strategy feels weird, because you're thinking about whether to skip or not, but eventually it becomes second nature:

https://classic.7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/13346/confidence-drills

https://classic.7sage.com/webinar/post-core-curriculum-study-strategies/

https://classic.7sage.com/webinar/timing-and-levels-of-certainty/

Basically, same with what I write about RC and LG below, but LR becomes a lot easier when you're not freaking out about time and you just read and try to really understand what the hell the stimulus is telling you. Once you understand what it's saying, and breakdown the components, it's a lot easier to answer the questions. I think earlier in my prep I just ran through the stimulus and tried to engage more with the answers, when the opposite is definitely more important. Practice pre-phrasing and interacting with the stimulus more by covering the answer choices, or writing out answers in BR.

Reading Comprehension

I started doing some of the early RCs and thought things might be fine, but eventually this section killed me. There were several distinct stages for me in terms of coming to understand RC and how to tackle it, and I'm not sure if this is universally applicable, but some of you might resonate with this:

One stage I went through was obviously applying the "memory method" with summaries and low res snapshots. I also wrote out breakdowns of each paragraph and main points in my BR. I feel like this was a learning phase in terms of gaining familiarity with the question types and passage structures which is crucial.

I read this book (https://www.amazon.com/LSAT-Reading-Comprehension-Ultimate-Improvement-ebook/dp/B013KNZ6FM/ref=sr_1_13?keywords=lsat+reading+comprehension&qid=1566494648&s=books&sr=1-13) which emphasizes the importance of understanding how terms of connected, the various author viewpoints, and how the specific subjects don't matter -- you'll often get terms but you don't actually need to understand them so much as just understand when referential phrasing is being used, and who is talking about what.

For this stage, the issue was that I started to annotate way too much, and hold onto way too much information. At the expense of focusing deeply on referential phrasing and breaking down every last aspect of each paragraph (thinking I was "simplifying" it) I ended up missing out on the larger picture (and losing time). Like stage 1, I still think of this as a learning process, but it didn't produce immediate gains.

A corollary to this is that you definitely have time to return to the passage and find key details. It may help to do untimed sections, where you go back to the passage and find where things are mentioned or pointed to before going to the questions (if you don't remember). A lot of RC comes from knowing what the question stem is asking of you (e.g. "What weakens so and so's claim?" -- well, what IS that claim? Where is it? How does it fit into the passage?).

The last thing is that it's okay to go beyond the 8:45 min time for passages. For the July exam I just said I'm going to take as much time as I need, and deal with the consequences at the end. The way it works, if you have enough faith, is that the section is designed to be uneven and finishable -- so you may only have 7 min at the end, but the last passage might be super easy.

Logic Games

This was actually one of my worst sections (or at least very inconsistent) when it came to fresh sections. I fool-proofed almost every game, and definitely all of the ones from PTs 1-35 multiple times, but when it came to new sections I would run out of time, freak out, or just make careless mistakes. I think my biggest advice for this section is that though fool-proofing definitely works, there are a few things that I overlooked while fool-proofing for the longest time:

Don't go into robot mode. Always stop and think upfront and play with the rules -- JY always says this but when you're foolproofing for so long and kind of memorized the games, then you tend to not execute this in practice, and then under the time constraints and pressure on a PT or real exam, you might tend to say "Forget it, I see some 'if' questions, I'm just gonna dive in." So practicing this step while foolproofing is crucial.

You will need to learn how to identify a "rule-driven game" and also know when it's worth playing with the rules even if you don't find any inferences. The latter can feel like a waste of time, but you become more fluent in the rules and then might spot some inferences faster later.

I started a Word document to myself where I would reflect on games and how they're similar to one another, what common mistakes I tend to make, and how the games are basically built. If I ask you, when do you make a chart? You should have a concrete answer for that. This kind of goes with point 1 above, but basically, in the "upfront" time, you need to figure out what you're looking for, and what questions need to be answered. If the distribution of pieces is open ended (typically A must have more members than B or something like that) then you should be asking what the maximum and minimum pieces should be. If the repeatability of pieces is open ended, you need to ask yourself, "Who can/can't repeat?" etc. Deep diving into games like this was crucial, because for the longest time I thought I just needed to keep doing them, and that just doesn't give you the extra mastery you need to conquer totally new games under timed conditions.

Overall Mindset

The theme across all of these sections is that I had a lot of trouble with the timing aspect and pressure of the exam. Focus on mastery, and time will come -- a common mantra, but one that is really, really, hard to believe. You may think you've already reached mastery, or that time will never come naturally, but it really will. And once you reach this point, the next stage is really mentally gearing yourself up for test day. You have to tell yourself that you got this, that you won't lose your cool, and that you have seen everything they can throw at you. What JY says about closing your eyes and taking a few deep breaths does wonders, and a big battle in the LSAT is not just with the questions, but with yourself.

I think this is enough for now, but I will be around on the forums as I work on apps (and maybe think about retaking but probably won't) -- feel free to DM me any questions about anything above, and I will do my best to help you out!

I was crying when I got my score yesterday. Over a year of studying. First diagnostic was a 157. Quite studying an entire semester due to depression. My first test, and the highest I had hit on my practice tests was 171. Thank you so much to 7Sage, I would’ve never hit this without this program. The only program I will ever recommend!

Hey all

So, on my most recent PT, which was PTC, I scored a 155 on the test and a 165 on the BR (which I am very happy about). I have only recently restarted doing tests after the julyexam (where I scored 154). This is my second test I did (scored 155 on PT 40 lol - did not finish the BR yet, planning to redo the test from scratch).

I am VERY happy with my BR score, its the first time i scored 160+! I guess drilling in the LR was a good idea.

I am just a bit worried about my speed, since I am slow and having trouble finishing in the allocated time. My RC was also at like 40-50%, and 90% in my BR (but it took 3x my allocated time).

I wanted to know how long (how many PTs?) it took before you started to score what you would BR at? I am hoping to be prepared by september, if not then, then october. I would be very satisfied with a score of 165 though!

I have also been studying for 3 months or so :)

Hi everyone,

I really need some advice in regards to the LSAT. I have been studying on and off for the LSAT from the past 1 year. I started at around a 140. I am scoring around 150 untimed. I usually get 15-16 questions right per section. I did mention on one of the discussion boards before that I did two undergraduate degrees. I did poorly in my first one, and I did really well in my second degree. I went back to do a second degree for the purposes of going to Law School. Since I had to work super hard in my second degree to compensate for the low grades that I got in my first degree. I want to do the same for the LSAT. I want to show the admissions committee that my grades have an upward trend. My goal is to attain a 170 on the LSAT and I want to be realistic about this score. I was planning to take the exam in September and realized that I am not ready at all. I was planning to take it in October or November (mostly thinking of November). That gives me around 2-3 months. I don't know if that's enough to reach my goal. I am not working or in school, so I have time to study full time. I believe that I am struggling with coming up with a solid plan. I have finished the 7 sage course and I am also studying from the lsat Trainer. I am willing to dedicate as much time as this exam needs.

I get 2-3 questions wrong per game on the games. Sometimes it's stupid mistakes. Questions that I know I can get right.

I get around 15-16 right per LR section (untimed) It takes a while for me to wrap my head around the argument.

RC- I am struggling with timing.

I needed some advice should I redo the course ? and re-read Mike Kim's trainer ?. Or should I just drill questions from different sections ? Since drilling has helped me a lot in terms of seeing where I am getting questions wrong. After that I was planning to pick up my speed. I don't plan on taking a full time preptest any time soon, since I know I won't do good and don't want to waste a prep test. I am willing to dedicate as much time as this exam needs. I just want to make sure that I am going the right way about it.

Sorry the long post. I would really appreciate some advice :)

Thank You

If you like your score and can get in with it but plan on taking the LSAT again. Do you - A - apply (likely get accepted) then assuming the next score is higher, use that for negotiation or B. Wait until you get the 2nd score back to apply.

How do you do your low resolution summaries on the digital tests? Do you just make note of them on a scrap piece of paper?

Hi all. To my dismay, I scored 4 points lower than my PT average in July. It is extremely helpful to me not only to blind review with folks, but to explain out loud why answer choices are wrong or right (learning by teaching, if you will).

Looking for someone who is scoring in the mid to high 160s and who specifically wants to focus on RC/LR. If anyone is open to partnering, I would love to be your study buddy! I study every night and am in Denver (mountain time). Please feel free to message me if you are interested!

Hello everyone,

I was burnt out and fluctuating before the July exam, averaging around 160. I've never scored higher than165. June was my first time taking the test and I scored 159.

But then I jumped 8 points on the July exam - scoring a 167. I can't tell you exactly what happened, but I got LG first (my favorite section), had better pacing on LR, stopped cramming a few days before, and felt no pressure (because I planned on retaking again in September).

My goal was to eventually reach 170. I was not dead set on this number but I felt like I was capable. My strongest section is LG, RC is a wash, and LR is my worst. Since the July exam, I've been drilling LR question types, trying out new approaches to LR, doing an RC passage a day, and warming up my studying time with old games. I also haven't taken any timed PTs, but after seeing my score yesterday, I decided to...and I got a 169 (I know this is only one data point but before I topped out at 164 so it means something to me).

With a 3.76 GPA and 167 LSAT score, I have more options than I thought. I'd like to apply to schools ranked between 14-30. I also don't want to pay full price, so a decent scholarship would nice. I'm aware of the medians at these schools and LST stats. When I was dreaming of that 170, I looked into UCLA, UT and Vanderbilt. There's still a lot more research to be done though.

I'm leaning towards studying for the September test (I already paid) and seeing if I can continue to score above a 167 on PTs. I'm someone who doesn't stop putting in effort until the task is really "done." Like I said, I really want scholarship $. But I'm also worried about any drop in my official scores. Yes, I know admissions only look at the highest, but I want to prove that this 167 wasn't complete luck. There's also that "what if" factor on test day of things you can't control.

Based on this novel...would you apply early decision with a 3.76 and 176 or keep studying, prove consistent 167+ PT score, and take a risk on September 21st?

Please help! I'm sorry this is long...but I really appreciate any honest answers. Thank you in advance

Hi all,

I started studying for the LSAT in May and decided to sign up for the July exam because I knew I could see my score and cancel it and retake for free in October, thinking I wanted a solid 5 months of studying. By July, I got through around 65% of the 7Sage Core Curriculum, but only ended up taking 1 PT (scored 160) before taking the exam in July. I just got my score back yesterday and was extremely surprised to see I scored a 165 (I expected either high 150s or low 160s). My original target score was a 168 and my dream schools were Duke and Berkeley. Here is my dilemma:

I'm apprehensive about starting to hardcore study again to take the exam in October. I'm just started my senior year as a full-time student and am also working part-time at a law firm for 15 hours/week. I'm not sure if I'll have enough time to dedicate to LSAT studying while maintaining my GPA. I'm kicking myself for not taking more PTs before taking the July exam -- I keep wondering if I could have scored higher if I had. I know it is frowned upon by many schools if you retake the exam to just go up a few points, so I'm thinking my options are either: 1) cancel the 165 and retake aiming for 168-170 and apply in December/January; or 2) keep the 165, focus on applications and apply earlier in October.

Background info: I'm an undergraduate senior at UNC Chapel Hill with a 3.85 GPA.

Any opinions/advice/reassurance would be appreciated! Thanks and good luck with your studies & applications :)

Hey guys and gals, I studied all summer for the Sept LSAT and my first two PTs afterwards I've only improved by 1 point. I'm feeling really discouraged and would like some advice on how to proceed. Thinking about waiting out this year and seeing if I can do better with more studying time under my belt.

Edit: Thanks for the advice, friends. It's so easy to throw up your hands and give up, but the only thing to do is keep working at it and until I understand the material.