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Comments
The point of doing the game right after watching the explanation is not that we don't remember the correct answer but we are trying to build the habit of doing the work correctly to get to the correct answer. This is where honesty is really important, you may remember the correct answer choice but can you still work out the logic to get to it?
And the answer might be yes! I still remember the steps to get to it and that's actually fine. Your takeway from doing it is to start building the habit of learning the process of how to arrive at the correct answer choice. That should be the focus when you do the game again.
Also, be honest, what did I learn here that I can take away to my other similar games? That's key to improving on games.
But anyway, some tips that helped me from the trainer were these:
1) fight the desire to draw hypotheticals for every question you think deserves one. you think it will be faster to do this but it actually takes more time. This applies mostly to CBT questions. I find that when I think through the answer to their completions I am faster as a whole on the game than when I write down hypotheticals. the trainer says top scorers in general only have to draw a hypothetical (so after you draw your master game board) once or twice in any given section.
2) instead of listing the rules I simply write them down in strategic locations. I put some above or some below and I combine when I can and it's to my advantage. I also don't write 1,2,3,4, etc under the slots like JY does in his videos. I know he says that it is mostly for instruction but in any case it really helped me to streamline my diagrams and get rid of clutter. Clutter on the paper translates to clutter in my mind.
3) one thing the trainer states is that if you can't think of a good way to diagram a rule in a few seconds or if you have any doubt about what your diagrammed rule could mean, just write it out. I began doing this for weird rules and it really helped. Of course, this is the exception. in general rules should be diagrammed.
4) JY emphasizes this but I guess it took reading a whole other book for it to sink in, keep track of your out pieces. this is especially true if you have a sequencing and grouping game (and there is only one out piece). since it's only one, there is the temptation to assume you'll keep it in mind. but it's best to include it in your diagram since it is probably going to be a powerful part of the game. something out, everything else has to be in.
5) I really like how the trainer uses capital letters and lower case letters. this also helped me to simplify my master game board. instead of having dogs (a,b,c,d) and cats (e,f,g,h) I put ABCD and efgh. basically when you have different elements that each go into positions or if you have subsets you can use lower case letters.
6) know when to SEARCH for the right answer and when to eliminate. I'm still trying to habitualize this one myself. MBT/MBF are instances where you want to search for the right answer, so run it through and find out what you know for sure and find that in the answer choices. for CBT/CBF you want to eliminate wrong answers.
7) combine timing from JY and trainer. I use JY when I'm drilling individual games. I time myself with his suggested time. For PT I try to keep to the trainer's timing guidelines. (I'm at work so I can't post the exact ones here but I'll put what I remember). after first game you should be at the 7min mark, after second game at the 16 min mark, after third game at the 25 min mark, after fourth game 35 min). these are totally flexible depending on where the hard games show up but it's a good benchmark.
LG are totally learnable! lastly, since I hear the newer tests have a wild card game I think it's important to keep a flexible way of studying/improving on logic games. Maybe we should not focus so much on categorizing them and just try to master how we approach them and do as many as we can.
8) always keep calm/don't freak out!
Another thing I would add to my list above is to read the set-up AND the rules before you begin diagramming. This helped me with short term memory and I also think it helped me with making inferences which can be challenging. Additionally, it helps me to not rush the beginning phase/set-up which as JY and the trainer emphasize, can be (is?) the most important part of tackling any game. invaluable. they have different strengths which makes sense since one is in book form and the other is in video. I learn better by reading so it was really useful for me to use the trainer. But the video have been extremely helpful. I think I understood the trainer better BECAUSE I went through the core curriculum and watched a bunch of LG videos beforehand. I'm a fan of using both.
@demogorgon I would also like one! I have made one of my own, but it's kind of wonky
that said, if no one has it, I can send you mine.
Hey guys! Sorry for the late reply, here is the spreadsheet on dropbox courtesy of @"Not Ralph Nader"
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a9rdnxphn55ax0k/Logic Games Bundle Tracker.xlsx?dl=0
removed
Thank you!
You're welcome!
@dennisgerrard so sorry I didn't see your message until now. Its titled subsets Logic games Chapter 11 page 147 (2016 edition) in the trainer for LG. I did the chapter 2 times just because it seems kinda awkward at first with the method but with the newer more complex games it works great. It helped me keep track of all the moving pieces & multiple subcategories.
@LsatChic Thanks! I'll check it tonight.
@dennisgerrard your welcome!
I'm bumping this up because a lot of people have been asking/mentioning fool proofing Logic Games recently (due to the large number of september takers starting their studies more than likely).
Hey! Question when you do the BR do you make another setup or just go through the questions again with same board? Thanks
I do the entire game over because the more practice in lg, the better for me
I make another set up. Blind reviewing is done on a clean copy so your old work under time does not influence what your knowledge is capable of achieving without time. That way you can see the difference.
got it thanks!
just to get it clear that means doing the games with @Pacifico strategy requires you to do the game 4x on day 1? 1x then BR then again and BR again?
The way I do the Pacifico strategy splits the game attempts up. At minimum, if you get the game perfectly, under time, and you feel great, you'll do it 3 times. 1st on the first day, 2nd on the next day, and 3rd a week from the next day (i.e. Monday, Tuesday, and next Tuesday.)
If I don't get it perfectly, which happens like 99% of the time for me because I'm terrible at games, it goes to more times. 1st on the first day, then as many extra times as needed on that first day till I'm doing perfectly. Let's say it's just one more time because after watching the video I get it -0 in under time. Then I continue the schedule, but now I'll be doing the game a total of four times instead of the three above (i.e. Monday, Monday again after watching the video, Tuesday, and next Tuesday.) This four time schedule is the most standard, and I believe Pacifico used it exclusively, so that's why he recommends four copies.
Of course, sometimes it may take me more than twice on that first day, even after watching the video, to get the game down. So I'll play it a total of 5, 6, or 7 times, with three or four of those times on Monday, until I get it perfect and under time, and the remaining 2 on schedule (the next day, and a week from the next day.)
You may find that when playing that game again the next day, or the next week, you screw up. Then you watch the video and add extra plays again, until you get it all right and under time. In my mind, screwing up is sort of like a reset button and you go back to the beginning.
I personally don't follow Pacifico's strategy.But I have been told what I do is very similar. I do the game first. Then I BR it. Then I see how I did. I then watch JY's explanation video regardless of how well I did and compare his method to mind. I try to make sure that I was using the most efficient method as well as getting all the inferences. If I did the game under-time and I got all questions correct then I am done with the game. If not, I do the game again and repeat the process above. I keep repeating the process until I feel that my setup is efficient and I got it under time and all questions correct. So the number of time I do this is not predetermined - its based on my learning. Then I table the game for the next day and then next week. If at anytime I don't meet the standards of how this game should be done I repeat the whole process again. I hope this helped. : )
Thanks guys! Very helpful
When referring to the core curriculum, does this include all of the problem sets? Should I be doing the LG problem sets JY's original way with 10 copies and drilling 3 on day 1, 3 on day 2 and 4 on day 3? Or can I skip this completely or reduce it to Pacificos method. Any help would be appreciated! Thank You
I usually just deferred to Pacificos method. I am in the process of fool proofing 1-35 and doing some of them earlier is definitely helping the process.
Good luck!
Thank you! I will do Pacificos method for the problem sets. If anyone has anything else to add it would be appreciated.
This sounds great, but where can i get the logic games bundle of which you speak???
It is available with the Ultimate + course package!
Alternatively, you can piece it together yourself if you have access to the PT's. Just cut up and bastardize the LG sections together.
Hey, I thought I would give this post a bump and my highest recommendation.
When I started 7sage I had a 172 already on a real test(a 172 recieved on the February test without finishing the games section), but could not figure out how to crack logic games. I had heard that logic games were the most easilly improved section of the test, and so had resolved to retake using the best source of games advice that I knew of, 7 Sage and the free video explanations.
Nonetheless, I was unwilling to print game 10 times as JY's foolproofing advice video prescribed nor was doing bunches of games one time helping.
Someone recommended the Pacifico Attack Strategy. I printed the games that night and the next day since I ran out of ink and the next day since I ran out of paper. 560 game attempts on 140 unique games using 1120 pages later I knew I was making progress. I did one new section at a time every day. Halfway through the bundle I finished a section on time on the first try for the first time. By the end I finished the first time on time more often than not. So, I continued adding 4 copies of new games to my foolproofing binders after I took PTs. In September, I scored a 180.
I'm not sure if I'm still hanging around the forum because I feel a profound sense of gratitude to the people on this forum for advising me to use this method or because I am not completely satisfied with that 180. After all it wasn't perfect. I missed a question on the test on Logic Games and when I finish with time to spare, I never miss a question on Games; I hadn't since I finished foolproofing using the Pacifico Attack Strategy.
You are literally seeking perfection lol. I ain't mad at ya.
hahaha, yeah...I love it!
Well I'm not crazy enough to really retake just to sort of wish I hadn't messed up on games. But with Pacifico's strategy and the 7sage game explanations, I think we can all seek perfection on games.
I'm going to try it...filled up one 2" binder with copies of PT 1-12...ordered more binders and ink today so that I can get at the rest!
It works. It takes time, but it works. Good luck!
@"Seeking Perfection" how long did it take you? I am finishing up the CC and among other tasks, fool proofing is next. I'm trying to write the test in June an am worried the fool proofing will take too long and I won't be ready in time.
It took me 42 days to get through the first 35. I was foolproofing between 3 and 4 hours a day doing one new section of 4 games a day, watching the video explanations for those games, redoing them, redoing the ones from the day before, and redoing the ones from one week before.
After that, I foolproofed more games and took practice tests and blind reviewed them studying for about 3 and a half months in total for my retake.
But I only really needed to work on games. It could take longer if you are doing other stuff for other sections too. Additionally you could obviously be either even slower than me to progress at games or substantially faster. Regardless progress comes through repetition and 35 tests times 4 games a test gives you 140 unique games to practice on. If you do those 4 times each that is 560 game attempts. That is a good start in terms of the needed repetitions for almost anyone.
That sounds good; thanks!
I was originally thinking that I was going to fly through the fool proofing really quick, but that did not happen. However I did realize that if I just keep at it and keep studying the inferences than I do progress forward and begin to see them, and that is all that matters. Even though doing 1-35 5-10 times seems daunting it does seem to produce fruitful results even if only slowly.
how did you guys format this on excel?
Here's a copy of the spreadsheet on dropbox.
Here's my column headings: PT # S# Q#, Type of Game, Target Time, Attempt, Date, Time, Score.
I kept the rows grouped together for question, so it would look like this:
PT5 S1 Q3 | SeqPure | 5:00 | 1 | 3/15 | 10:23 | -1
PT5 S1 Q3 | SeqPure | 5:00 | 2 | 3/16 | 6:10 | 0
PT5 S1 Q3 | SeqPure | 5:00 | 3 | 3/17 |
PT5 S1 Q3 | SeqPure | 5:00 | 4 | 3/24 |
I would automatically fill in the dates for future attempts too, so each day I could just Command + F the current date (find function) and it would highlight all the questions I'd "scheduled" for that day.
I have LGs from PTs 1-35, but each game is not split up into two pages, like modern LSAT LG games are.
Could I just print 140 copies, and erase my work rather than printing 4 copies for each game? What's the problem with that?
It is hard to erase well enough not to see what you erased. It is time consuming to erase that well. You will probably end up doing each game less than the 4 times minimum that you should. 4 is really the bare minimum. It is already an abbreviation from the original 10.
@"Seeking Perfection"
I see, thank you. I guess Ill be going to the store to buy some more ink and paper lol.
And maybe a couple big spirals with page protectors for games storage/organization.