This one is more confusing to me than Group 3. For Negate Necessary, are both statements (ADP → /A and A → /ADP) correct? Versus Negate Sufficient, where only one is correct?
Here we discuss the GROUP 4 indicators, which involve negative one of the ideas before making it the necessary condition. Group 4 indicators are: →
NO
NONE
NOT BOTH
CANNOT
Translation Rule: “pick either idea, negate that idea, then make that idea the necessary condition. The other idea from GROUP 3 falls into the place of a sufficient condition.”
EXAMPLE #1: “None of the Americans attended the dictator’s party.”
Step 1 Identify the Initial Indicator: → here is the word “none” that's group 4.
Step 2 Identify the two main concepts: → main concept (subject) none of the Americans other concept (predicate) attended the dictator’s party.
Step 3 Assign symbols to the two main concepts: → American (A) and use (ADP) for attending the dictator’s party.
Step 4 Apply the translation rule: (ADP) → (/A)
→ (/ADP)
Translating this new form back into English: “If one is an American, then one did not attend the dictator’s party.” and the other translation looks like this → “If one attended the dictator’s party, then one is not an American.”
im confused you say pick either idea and make it necessary condition. I figured that in conditional logic, the hardest part was confusing sufficent with necessary clause. How can we just pick either idea, when one is the sufficient (trigger) from a nesseary result?
I see how the words for group 3 need at least two clauses, and words of group 4 can start with one clause. Am I right?? Would this be a right way to understand this
I've studied for the LSAT on and off for literal years and always struggled with this concept because I was initially taught a "no torpedo" method (iykyk). This method is GOLD!! So simple and easy.
I don't get how you can just pick any idea and choose if it's going to be the sufficient or necessary condition. Shouldn't we understand what the sentence is trying to say too?
Maybe this gets covered in another lesson, but what do we do if we see "most" or "some" in support for a claim on a test question?
Ex: All public places are comfortable. Most public places that are well-designed have art.
When I'm translating I'm stuck on what to do. I think a good rule of thumb is that you pretty much ignore "most" or "some" claims that show up in stimulus and answers?
#feedback#HELP!!!!! Okay I need help from someone. With the negate necessary I'll type out my thought process "None of the Americans attended the dictators party." I looked at that and noticed that its the group 4 indicator words. So I thought. /A----/D so I assigned /A because it says none of the Americans. Then I assigned /D because you have to negate the necessary claim but that's not correct. It is comparing Americans to the Dictators party. A---/D. What im saying is why do I keep assigning the None to Americans. What I think I see is that the none is the indicator word and it cannot act as an indicator word and a negation at the same time.
Someone please help me with this give some examples that use no, none, and negations in the same sentence.
Quick question here: In the example wouldn't the translation be "if one is one of the Americans, then etc" OR "if one attended the dictator's party then one is not one of the Americans"?? I know this is small but presumably, there could be a group of Americans that the example is not referring to. Rather it is referring to some group of "the Americans" that according to the author could not include the broad group of all Americans. Am I right about this?
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92 comments
This one is more confusing to me than Group 3. For Negate Necessary, are both statements (ADP → /A and A → /ADP) correct? Versus Negate Sufficient, where only one is correct?
isnt if a indicator word for sufficient then why are we putting in the sentence for negate necessary
Here we discuss the GROUP 4 indicators, which involve negative one of the ideas before making it the necessary condition. Group 4 indicators are: →
NO
NONE
NOT BOTH
CANNOT
Translation Rule: “pick either idea, negate that idea, then make that idea the necessary condition. The other idea from GROUP 3 falls into the place of a sufficient condition.”
EXAMPLE #1: “None of the Americans attended the dictator’s party.”
Step 1 Identify the Initial Indicator: → here is the word “none” that's group 4.
Step 2 Identify the two main concepts: → main concept (subject) none of the Americans other concept (predicate) attended the dictator’s party.
Step 3 Assign symbols to the two main concepts: → American (A) and use (ADP) for attending the dictator’s party.
Step 4 Apply the translation rule: (ADP) → (/A)
→ (/ADP)
Translating this new form back into English: “If one is an American, then one did not attend the dictator’s party.” and the other translation looks like this → “If one attended the dictator’s party, then one is not an American.”
As several have pointed out, “never” was excluded from the video as a negate necessary indicator word. What was the rationale?
what about
"No students are unhappy unless they fail?"
im confused you say pick either idea and make it necessary condition. I figured that in conditional logic, the hardest part was confusing sufficent with necessary clause. How can we just pick either idea, when one is the sufficient (trigger) from a nesseary result?
Sufficient conditions:
if, when, where, all, every, any
Necessary conditions:
only, only if, only when, only where, always, must
Negate, sufficient:
or, unless, until, without
Negate, necessary:
no, none, not both, and cannot
So is the only/best way to identify these conditions to memorize all of the indicator words? Because there are a LOT of them lol
What if the thing you negate is already negative? Do you just positive it?
I remember this by: The "No" Group
All of group 4 words, even if they don't contain the word no, essentially mean no.
-NO
-NOne
-NOt Both
-CanNOt
-Never
(Never doesn't work as well for the mnemonic but it is fine)
Just had a quick question. Might be a stupid one
I see how the words for group 3 need at least two clauses, and words of group 4 can start with one clause. Am I right?? Would this be a right way to understand this
#J.Y. Feedback.
You should have said 'never' in your original video, monkey.
(-_-)
'Never' is missing from this list
So if my subject of choice is on the right side of the arrow it is necessary, and on the left side it is sufficient?
A --> B (A is sufficient)
B --> A (A is necessary)
This right?
I've studied for the LSAT on and off for literal years and always struggled with this concept because I was initially taught a "no torpedo" method (iykyk). This method is GOLD!! So simple and easy.
I don't get how you can just pick any idea and choose if it's going to be the sufficient or necessary condition. Shouldn't we understand what the sentence is trying to say too?
Group 4 logical indicators: no, none, not both, cannot
Group 4 rule: You pick either idea, then negate that idea, then make that idea the necessary condition.
If I did it like:
Idea 1: American attended
Idea 2: Dictator's party
Negate Idea 1 and make it "necessary": dictator's party -> /American attended
Translate to English: If it's a dictator's party, then no American attended
Would this still be correct? I think I messed up at breaking up the predicate?
Maybe this gets covered in another lesson, but what do we do if we see "most" or "some" in support for a claim on a test question?
Ex: All public places are comfortable. Most public places that are well-designed have art.
When I'm translating I'm stuck on what to do. I think a good rule of thumb is that you pretty much ignore "most" or "some" claims that show up in stimulus and answers?
#feedback#HELP!!!!! Okay I need help from someone. With the negate necessary I'll type out my thought process "None of the Americans attended the dictators party." I looked at that and noticed that its the group 4 indicator words. So I thought. /A----/D so I assigned /A because it says none of the Americans. Then I assigned /D because you have to negate the necessary claim but that's not correct. It is comparing Americans to the Dictators party. A---/D. What im saying is why do I keep assigning the None to Americans. What I think I see is that the none is the indicator word and it cannot act as an indicator word and a negation at the same time.
Someone please help me with this give some examples that use no, none, and negations in the same sentence.
Has anyone found an easy way to memorize all of these indicators
I was wondering, do you think we should memorize all of the indicator words for all four groups?
What would be an example sentence with "not both"?
Just to confirm, the formula is always: Sufficient condition → Necessary condition
Meaning, the sufficient is always on the left and necessary on the right?
Quick question here: In the example wouldn't the translation be "if one is one of the Americans, then etc" OR "if one attended the dictator's party then one is not one of the Americans"?? I know this is small but presumably, there could be a group of Americans that the example is not referring to. Rather it is referring to some group of "the Americans" that according to the author could not include the broad group of all Americans. Am I right about this?