It actually helped me to draw out the diagram for this one. A circle for A, Circle B intersecting A, and Circle C intersecting B. A and C don't have to intersect, so the conclusion from the Lawgic that A←s→C isn't valid. Works in my brain.
would we also be able to apply this diagram to the "most before most" lesson? Since two most arrows ‑m→ in the same chain would lead to no valid conclusion as well?
anyone else think that these reasonings are just lazy slop towards the end? Like yeah you can just take it face value without entirely understanding why but it definitely helps and its so lazy that its just: the previous lesson is stronger, so this is also invalid.
I’d love videos for these to visualize. The lesson helps some for sure but I still feel lost applying the terms on the spot honestly. Is it a matter of just memorizing these rules would be best?
I have personally ignored most of the lawgic to this point because it confuses me too. I understand from a logical standpoint, and it shows when I answer questions. Lawgic is just another tool to understand all of this. You can use it or not use it and that's okay; that's the way I see it though.
So far, I am only using lawgic when the sentence is really winding or confusing, such as the kind you actually see on the LSAT. And there, I am more just using it as a way to get to the bottom of what something says and not trying to memorize.
If you need a visualization of this concept, go to the previous lesson's comment section and look for the google docs link. Guaranteed it will help you understand it.
This is the way I'm thinking about it so correct me if I'm wrong. Using the buckets visualization, we put some of A in some of B. Now some of B are in some of C but we don't know if the Bs that are in the C bucket hold some of the As.
Circles are so helpful with these lessons. If you draw circles from the Most before Most lesson, you just pull A and C circles further out from B and see how invalid concl is still the case.
Some Before Some is just an even weaker version of Most Before Most.
For my watch nerds: Imagine two collectors at a watch meetup. Collector A owns a Rolex and an Omega. Collector B owns an Omega and a Grand Seiko. Both premises are satisfied, but there is still no collector who owns both a Rolex and a Grand Seiko. The two “some” statements don’t have to refer to the same person.
Remember: When two "some" statements are chained together, there are no valid conclusions to be drawn.
Ex.
Some of USA's peaches come from Georgia. Some produce from GA is exported to Mexico. Therefore, some peaches are exported to Mexico.
USAp --s-> GA --s-> Mx
____
USAp <-s-> Mx
This is NOT a valid conclusion; maybe only 1 peach is grown per year, and therefore the "some" produce that's exported doesn't happen to include that peach.
Would it be right if it was some As are Bs and some As are Cs, then some Bs are Cs. Or is it only right when it is most, because I can't assume there is overlap?
@lawshosh You're right, I think it would have to be "most".
Some DC residents have a car.
Some DC residents ride the metro.
Therefore some DC residents own a car and ride the metro.
Is not necessarily true, because this could mean 1 person in all of DC has a car and 1 other different person in all of DC rides the metro. Which in reality makes no sense, but I'm learning that this part of the LSAT doesn't seem to care about reality.
Most DC residents have a car.
Most DC residents ride the metro
Some DC residents have a car and ride the metro.
This would have to be true, because it means at least 50%+1 of DC residents have a car and at least 50%+1 of DC residents rides the metro. And mathematically those sets have to overlap.
Wait I think I might be getting it. Is it these arguments are weak because they're open to multiple interpretation. Such as earlier in the lesson, the connection between everyone who plays violin to specifically the ones in the philharmonic. Or the produce on being that produce could be other things such as Veggies and not Almonds? The working of Most or Some further weakens the argument but also the context to? Of making connection between two conditionals?
@emmalc02 Let me give this a shot - let me know if this is totally wrong.
Every minute, around 260 babies are born around the world. Some of these newborns are premature - arriving earlier than the 3rd trimester or at the very start of the 3rd trimester. Some of these premature newborns have a rare condition called necrotizing enterocolitis. It follows that some newborns born every minute have necrotizing enterocolitis.
Thinking about this in terms of sets helps a bit - because it seems obvious to say "of course some freshly born babies have necrotizing enterocolitis, that's just common sense! that's like saying some babies will cry when they're born." However, we start from a very broad set (all newborns born within a minute, say 260), we narrow down to premature babies (say 100), and we further narrow down to babies with necrotizing enterocolitis (maybe 20 of those babies). 20/260 seems like a rather small number, and saying some may seem grossly inaccurate.
A valid argument may be: Every minute, around 260 babies are born around the world. Some of these newborns are premature - arriving earlier than the 3rd trimester or at the very start of the 3rd trimester. All of these babies are born before vital organ systems have a chance to fully develop. It follows that some newborns born every minute do not have fully developed organ systems.
This makes sense (I think) because you're saying all premature babies (100, going with the previous numbers here) have this condition, and 100/260 makes more sense to say "some".
I hope this makes sense and if I got any information wrong about premature babies, I apologize! I'm just rattling whatever information I remembered in my 10th grade anatomy class.
I think when it comes to dealing with uncertain quantifiers like some and most is just trying to come up with scenarios that would completely flip the script.
Most vegans are American, most Americans like milk. Does it follow that most vegans like milk?
Think about the most extreme example, given the statement, could it be the case that out of all the people who don't like milk, it just happens to be all the vegans? The prompt allows this possibility, therefore it does not follow.
Hey! So I've been reviewing these flaw lessons since these are the questions I am getting wrong most frequently, and I was wondering if just memorizing these rules would be helpful. I somewhat understand why these are wrong depending on the context, but if I memorize these rules to look for key terms chained together would it be wrong to assume that I'd be able to get them right more frequently while saving time from reading the whole question?
Wait so in thinking abt this one it's like saying 1 grown cali almond, 1 PRODUCE lable fruit tree = somehow this is an anomaly of this cali grown almond being the single produce fruit tree? The chances are low especially since they don't clarify it being specifically the almond but just produce in general.
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It actually helped me to draw out the diagram for this one. A circle for A, Circle B intersecting A, and Circle C intersecting B. A and C don't have to intersect, so the conclusion from the Lawgic that A←s→C isn't valid. Works in my brain.
would we also be able to apply this diagram to the "most before most" lesson? Since two most arrows ‑m→ in the same chain would lead to no valid conclusion as well?
oh i like that
This was so helpful Adam! I was having trouble visualizing this and your explanation was great. Thank you!
anyone else think that these reasonings are just lazy slop towards the end? Like yeah you can just take it face value without entirely understanding why but it definitely helps and its so lazy that its just: the previous lesson is stronger, so this is also invalid.
@JKang right
I dont even like almonds
@ChadC this gave me a giggle
@ChadC thanks for making me laugh :)
having to teach myself without videos reminds me of teaching myself stats because it was offered online like broooooo
I’d love videos for these to visualize. The lesson helps some for sure but I still feel lost applying the terms on the spot honestly. Is it a matter of just memorizing these rules would be best?
I feel like I can understand this from a logical stand point and Lawgic just confuses me. Should I focus on improving my Lawgic knowledge?
ditto
I have personally ignored most of the lawgic to this point because it confuses me too. I understand from a logical standpoint, and it shows when I answer questions. Lawgic is just another tool to understand all of this. You can use it or not use it and that's okay; that's the way I see it though.
Same here. I am honestly ignoring most Lawgic at this point. A lot of it confuses me.
So far, I am only using lawgic when the sentence is really winding or confusing, such as the kind you actually see on the LSAT. And there, I am more just using it as a way to get to the bottom of what something says and not trying to memorize.
From a logical stand point it makes more sense.
If you need a visualization of this concept, go to the previous lesson's comment section and look for the google docs link. Guaranteed it will help you understand it.
Thank you for the tip!
Where are the videos!!!! ='(
Some sour foods are candy,
some candy is chocolate
therefore some sour food is chocolate
@AlizaGGG love this example, ty! diagrammed it for anyone that finds visual learning helpful
I really wish these lessons had videos :(
@Rabee I agree
This is the way I'm thinking about it so correct me if I'm wrong. Using the buckets visualization, we put some of A in some of B. Now some of B are in some of C but we don't know if the Bs that are in the C bucket hold some of the As.
Circles are so helpful with these lessons. If you draw circles from the Most before Most lesson, you just pull A and C circles further out from B and see how invalid concl is still the case.
Some Before Some is just an even weaker version of Most Before Most.
idky yall dont make videos showing clearly this flaw
For my watch nerds: Imagine two collectors at a watch meetup. Collector A owns a Rolex and an Omega. Collector B owns an Omega and a Grand Seiko. Both premises are satisfied, but there is still no collector who owns both a Rolex and a Grand Seiko. The two “some” statements don’t have to refer to the same person.
Wouldn’t it have been easier to just make a T-chart of invalid and valid formulas?
e.g.,
Invalid | Valid
S,S,S | M,M,S
A,M,S | M,A,S
A,S,S (lol) | S,A,S
@yve3g4xqca what do these letters stand for?
@AveryRooney28 s- some. m-most , a- all (I think )
Starting to make more sense
Trap 6: Attempting to chain "Some"s
Remember: When two "some" statements are chained together, there are no valid conclusions to be drawn.
Ex.
Some of USA's peaches come from Georgia. Some produce from GA is exported to Mexico. Therefore, some peaches are exported to Mexico.
USAp --s-> GA --s-> Mx
____
USAp <-s-> Mx
This is NOT a valid conclusion; maybe only 1 peach is grown per year, and therefore the "some" produce that's exported doesn't happen to include that peach.
"some" is too weak. "some" only becomes valid when it teams up with an "all."
Some + all → VALID
Some + most → invalid
Some + some → invalid
Would it be right if it was some As are Bs and some As are Cs, then some Bs are Cs. Or is it only right when it is most, because I can't assume there is overlap?
@lawshosh You're right, I think it would have to be "most".
Some DC residents have a car.
Some DC residents ride the metro.
Therefore some DC residents own a car and ride the metro.
Is not necessarily true, because this could mean 1 person in all of DC has a car and 1 other different person in all of DC rides the metro. Which in reality makes no sense, but I'm learning that this part of the LSAT doesn't seem to care about reality.
Most DC residents have a car.
Most DC residents ride the metro
Some DC residents have a car and ride the metro.
This would have to be true, because it means at least 50%+1 of DC residents have a car and at least 50%+1 of DC residents rides the metro. And mathematically those sets have to overlap.
@nick.treb THANK YOU
Wait I think I might be getting it. Is it these arguments are weak because they're open to multiple interpretation. Such as earlier in the lesson, the connection between everyone who plays violin to specifically the ones in the philharmonic. Or the produce on being that produce could be other things such as Veggies and not Almonds? The working of Most or Some further weakens the argument but also the context to? Of making connection between two conditionals?
I know you asked this a while ago and probably have it down now, but I think it has more to do with the size of the sets.
If some A are B, then at least one A is B. Further, if some B are C, then at least one B is C.
I represented it like this
A
A
A B
B
B C
C
C
In this specific case, A and C do not even touch. That is not to say it is impossible, but we cannot guarantee it.
[This comment was deleted.]
@emmalc02 Let me give this a shot - let me know if this is totally wrong.
Every minute, around 260 babies are born around the world. Some of these newborns are premature - arriving earlier than the 3rd trimester or at the very start of the 3rd trimester. Some of these premature newborns have a rare condition called necrotizing enterocolitis. It follows that some newborns born every minute have necrotizing enterocolitis.
Thinking about this in terms of sets helps a bit - because it seems obvious to say "of course some freshly born babies have necrotizing enterocolitis, that's just common sense! that's like saying some babies will cry when they're born." However, we start from a very broad set (all newborns born within a minute, say 260), we narrow down to premature babies (say 100), and we further narrow down to babies with necrotizing enterocolitis (maybe 20 of those babies). 20/260 seems like a rather small number, and saying some may seem grossly inaccurate.
A valid argument may be: Every minute, around 260 babies are born around the world. Some of these newborns are premature - arriving earlier than the 3rd trimester or at the very start of the 3rd trimester. All of these babies are born before vital organ systems have a chance to fully develop. It follows that some newborns born every minute do not have fully developed organ systems.
This makes sense (I think) because you're saying all premature babies (100, going with the previous numbers here) have this condition, and 100/260 makes more sense to say "some".
I hope this makes sense and if I got any information wrong about premature babies, I apologize! I'm just rattling whatever information I remembered in my 10th grade anatomy class.
I think when it comes to dealing with uncertain quantifiers like some and most is just trying to come up with scenarios that would completely flip the script.
Most vegans are American, most Americans like milk. Does it follow that most vegans like milk?
Think about the most extreme example, given the statement, could it be the case that out of all the people who don't like milk, it just happens to be all the vegans? The prompt allows this possibility, therefore it does not follow.
#help
Hey! So I've been reviewing these flaw lessons since these are the questions I am getting wrong most frequently, and I was wondering if just memorizing these rules would be helpful. I somewhat understand why these are wrong depending on the context, but if I memorize these rules to look for key terms chained together would it be wrong to assume that I'd be able to get them right more frequently while saving time from reading the whole question?
Sorry if that made absolutely no sense btw lol :0
circle overlap A and B may not also overlap three ways with the overelap from B and C
Wait so in thinking abt this one it's like saying 1 grown cali almond, 1 PRODUCE lable fruit tree = somehow this is an anomaly of this cali grown almond being the single produce fruit tree? The chances are low especially since they don't clarify it being specifically the almond but just produce in general.