Why is Question 1 an argument? What am I being persuaded of? It seems to me like the writer is merely stating a decision they have already made and then describing their circumstances further in the last sentence.
Concession: Despite the health risks associated with such a surgery,
Conclusion: I've decided to go ahead with the operation.
Premises: With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative.
remember, an argument by definition is purely: premise(s) + conclusion. The premise/ claim that his current medical condition, and not having another alternative supports the claim that he will go ahead with the operation. the truth of the premise (no other options) increases the truth of the conclusion (he must have the surgery)
to give an example, imagine if the premise was this: "With my current medical condition, there are 5 alternatives". Then the conclusion would seem more like a conclusion right? He has 5 options but he decided to do a surgery. The same idea applies, only that he doesnt have alternatives. the premise still links and affects the conclusion.
@aliegeaksu imagine you asked the speaker to justify why they've chosen to go ahead with the operation. "Well," they say, "with my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative." Here, the speaker is giving you a reason why he's decided to go ahead with the operation.
Now consider "I've decided to go ahead with the operation" as a conclusion. What're the reasons for it? Same deal: the reason is that "with my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative." Thus, it looks like we've got two statements, one which supports the other. That's an argument!
@aliegeaksu from my understanding there are more ways that a stimulus would constitute an argument, either it is trying to convince of the reader of something, or it must comprise of conclusion(s) that are supported by premise(s). if im wrong please correct me (im still learning just like you guys)
@aliegeaksu I see it the same way as you. I thought there was no argument there. What's the author trying to convince of or persuade us to believe? That he/she went ahead with surgery?
Messed up a bit on the last one. I set it as a premise rather than an author’s note. Knew there wasn’t a conclusion though.
So are we saying that when an argument isn’t present, there’s no conclusion? I mean, it would make sense because if I play this out as a conversation and asked someone “Well, what was the point of you saying that?” I’d expect the response to be along the lines of, “I was just saying it to say it.” Lol.
Why is #1 an argument? The supposed conclusion "I've decided to go ahead with the operation." is not a claim, it is a description of a decision. The supposed premise "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative..." does nothing to support the truth that this individual has, in fact, decided to go forward with the operation. The claim here is about the decision to undergo the operation. There is no claim that such a decision is the correct decision. I could see a question being posed like "Does the fact that the individual claims "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative..." strengthen or weaken the claim that undergoing the operation is the right decision, but this introduces a new claim that at the very best is only implied in the argument. As we saw from past lessons, implied premises (or conclusions) when not explicitly present, are not strictly part of the argument.
A conclusion, according to the definition stated in one of the previous lesson, is "A statement which is supported by another statement." The author is making the statement "I'm going ahead with the operation". This statement is supported by his reason, another statement a/k/a the premise, "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative."
The latter supports the former. We do not know if undergoing this operation is the right decision, as we don't know what this operation is and nor did the author state they're a doctor. All we know is that the author argues that he has no choice but to go with the operation, because of their medical condition and there's no other alternative. Structurally, this is considered an argument because it has the premise + conclusion.
I see @invoice05_volcano's point and partially agree with them. At first glance, there does not appear to be an argument here.
The statement "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative" (hereafter P) does not appear to support the statement "I've decided to go ahead with the operation" (C).
Upon further analysis however, one could argue that P does weakly support C.
We can pose the question, "How do we know the author has decided to get the operation?" If our answer is "...there may not be another alternative" then P does appear to be a premise.
But as @invoice05_volcano points out, this is up for interpretation, as P appears to rather be supporting an implied premise; specifically, "I need to get the operation" or "I should get the operation".
A statement which would better serve as premise to C would be "I informed my doctor I'd like to get it done, and I've booked my operation for next week". How do we know the author decided to get the operation? Well, because they confirmed their decision with their doctor and booked the appointment. Clearly a premise to C, and thus clearly an argument.
I do not agree with the reasoning from @nikk.ia262 above when they say "... All we know is that the author argues that he has no choice but to go with the operation, because of their medical condition and there’s no other alternative. ..."
The author is not claiming that he has no choice but to go with the operation when he states "I will get the operation". Were C instead "I need to get the operation", this reasoning would be valid.
At the end of the day, language is always up for interpretation; this is not an exact science. I'd lean towards this not being an argument. Whether the LSAT writers would agree with me is another matter :)
How is Q1 an argument? I understand that "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative,"supports "I've decided to go ahead with the operation," but the latter seems like a simple statement of fact and not an argument.
@WilRothman I think arguments like this are where the original definitions of premise and conclusion being taken extremely literally. It may not sound like it's trying to be persuasive, but it is still a "statement that is supported by another statement" which is all a conclusion is in the context of an LSAT question.
You can rewrite it as "I've decided to go ahead with the operation because my current medical condition may leave me no other alternative" and it works, and maybe even sounds a little bit more of an argument!
Notwithstanding the planet Dune being a desert, it was revered and considered invaluable by the people.
This is not an argument, but if it had another sentence that stated "As sand was seen as important to the people and the people enjoyed the warm weather"
154 comments
My desert. My Arrakis. MY DUNE.
4/5, got confused on the last one.
J.Y. Lisan Al-Gaib confirmed??
first 5/5, #superduperproudofmyself
5/5 let's go!!
5/5 finally!
I felt so smart realizing the last wasn't an arguement. Finally!!!!
The planet was called Arrakis buddy not Dune
@cmstout Somebody doesn't know what the old Fremen name for Arrakis was
@cmstout Arrakis is its colonizer name
Why is Question 1 an argument? What am I being persuaded of? It seems to me like the writer is merely stating a decision they have already made and then describing their circumstances further in the last sentence.
Concession: Despite the health risks associated with such a surgery,
Conclusion: I've decided to go ahead with the operation.
Premises: With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative.
remember, an argument by definition is purely: premise(s) + conclusion. The premise/ claim that his current medical condition, and not having another alternative supports the claim that he will go ahead with the operation. the truth of the premise (no other options) increases the truth of the conclusion (he must have the surgery)
to give an example, imagine if the premise was this: "With my current medical condition, there are 5 alternatives". Then the conclusion would seem more like a conclusion right? He has 5 options but he decided to do a surgery. The same idea applies, only that he doesnt have alternatives. the premise still links and affects the conclusion.
I hope this helps!
@aliegeaksu imagine you asked the speaker to justify why they've chosen to go ahead with the operation. "Well," they say, "with my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative." Here, the speaker is giving you a reason why he's decided to go ahead with the operation.
Now consider "I've decided to go ahead with the operation" as a conclusion. What're the reasons for it? Same deal: the reason is that "with my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative." Thus, it looks like we've got two statements, one which supports the other. That's an argument!
@aliegeaksu from my understanding there are more ways that a stimulus would constitute an argument, either it is trying to convince of the reader of something, or it must comprise of conclusion(s) that are supported by premise(s). if im wrong please correct me (im still learning just like you guys)
@aliegeaksu I see it the same way as you. I thought there was no argument there. What's the author trying to convince of or persuade us to believe? That he/she went ahead with surgery?
Through this exercise I found that being able to identify the concession makes the conclusion to the argument much easier to quickly identify.
4/5 messed up on the last question, the author point tripped me up
@ShelbyAKolhoff me too!
@ShelbyAKolhoff good job!!
Messed up a bit on the last one. I set it as a premise rather than an author’s note. Knew there wasn’t a conclusion though.
So are we saying that when an argument isn’t present, there’s no conclusion? I mean, it would make sense because if I play this out as a conversation and asked someone “Well, what was the point of you saying that?” I’d expect the response to be along the lines of, “I was just saying it to say it.” Lol.
Anybody confuse the Premise/Conclusion in #4? Or did I just work too fast
@StarBrooks same
@StarBrooks yes!
Dune mention!! Anyone watching Dune part 3 in December?
Why is #1 an argument? The supposed conclusion "I've decided to go ahead with the operation." is not a claim, it is a description of a decision. The supposed premise "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative..." does nothing to support the truth that this individual has, in fact, decided to go forward with the operation. The claim here is about the decision to undergo the operation. There is no claim that such a decision is the correct decision. I could see a question being posed like "Does the fact that the individual claims "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative..." strengthen or weaken the claim that undergoing the operation is the right decision, but this introduces a new claim that at the very best is only implied in the argument. As we saw from past lessons, implied premises (or conclusions) when not explicitly present, are not strictly part of the argument.
A conclusion, according to the definition stated in one of the previous lesson, is "A statement which is supported by another statement." The author is making the statement "I'm going ahead with the operation". This statement is supported by his reason, another statement a/k/a the premise, "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative."
The latter supports the former. We do not know if undergoing this operation is the right decision, as we don't know what this operation is and nor did the author state they're a doctor. All we know is that the author argues that he has no choice but to go with the operation, because of their medical condition and there's no other alternative. Structurally, this is considered an argument because it has the premise + conclusion.
I see @invoice05_volcano's point and partially agree with them. At first glance, there does not appear to be an argument here.
The statement "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative" (hereafter P) does not appear to support the statement "I've decided to go ahead with the operation" (C).
Upon further analysis however, one could argue that P does weakly support C.
We can pose the question, "How do we know the author has decided to get the operation?" If our answer is "...there may not be another alternative" then P does appear to be a premise.
But as @invoice05_volcano points out, this is up for interpretation, as P appears to rather be supporting an implied premise; specifically, "I need to get the operation" or "I should get the operation".
A statement which would better serve as premise to C would be "I informed my doctor I'd like to get it done, and I've booked my operation for next week". How do we know the author decided to get the operation? Well, because they confirmed their decision with their doctor and booked the appointment. Clearly a premise to C, and thus clearly an argument.
I do not agree with the reasoning from @nikk.ia262 above when they say "... All we know is that the author argues that he has no choice but to go with the operation, because of their medical condition and there’s no other alternative. ..."
The author is not claiming that he has no choice but to go with the operation when he states "I will get the operation". Were C instead "I need to get the operation", this reasoning would be valid.
At the end of the day, language is always up for interpretation; this is not an exact science. I'd lean towards this not being an argument. Whether the LSAT writers would agree with me is another matter :)
I say I scored 4.5/5 because the last question tripped me up. I answered:
Concession: Notwithstanding the planet Dune being a desert,
Premise: it was revered and
conclusion: considered invaluable by the people.
But oh well, I'll take what I can get :D
@Dom80 same!
@Dom80 okay same I'm like basically got it right but not 100%
How is Q1 an argument? I understand that "With my current medical condition, there may not be another alternative," supports "I've decided to go ahead with the operation," but the latter seems like a simple statement of fact and not an argument.
@WilRothman I think arguments like this are where the original definitions of premise and conclusion being taken extremely literally. It may not sound like it's trying to be persuasive, but it is still a "statement that is supported by another statement" which is all a conclusion is in the context of an LSAT question.
You can rewrite it as "I've decided to go ahead with the operation because my current medical condition may leave me no other alternative" and it works, and maybe even sounds a little bit more of an argument!
@SavanahHoffstein Thank you for the clarification.
Dune mention 🤘
So in other words a concession point is admitting that the other side has a good point
Getting better…
Notwithstanding the planet Dune being a desert, it was revered and considered invaluable by the people.
This is not an argument, but if it had another sentence that stated "As sand was seen as important to the people and the people enjoyed the warm weather"
Would that make it an argument?
@Sameer_Ahamad Yes because it is only lacking support and the added statement would offer the missing support.
5/5 Finally!
5/5 Let's gooo. The dune one almost got me lol.
@Richard.Quiles21 same, but then I asked myself okay WHY is dune revered and invaluable? With no support, there is no argument, it’s just a statement.
@Richard.Quiles21 lol same, it's the shortest example yet the trickiest.
Dune is peak. Must read series (at least the first four).
5/5!!! Nice way to keep us on our toes...