I would like to retire around 40.

Barring crazy circumstances --inheriting money from a long-lost uncle, inventing the next FB, etc-- what would that look like with a law degree? I am 22 right now, plan to start law school in '19 and be finished by '22, at 26. Would you go Big Law for 14 years and try to make partner really early? Try to find a niche and start your own law firm? Consult? Work internationally? I live a very modest life, have no undergrad debt, and can't see myself living "big" even if I had the money. Would love to hear your advice or anecdotal stories of people with law degrees who were able to retire a lot earlier than 65 (and who actually used their law degree to do so).

Thanks!

Hey 7Sage,

While 7Sage Editor @Ben.Mauk was helping you get into law school, he was also, apparently, writing a feature on a stateless people in Cambodia who live in floating villages. This article is an absolute stunner:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/28/magazine/cambodia-persecuted-minority-water-refuge.html

Does anyone have experience taking a mock class in open house? The school gave us a case to study to prep for class and I dont know what to expect. The class will be taught by the dean

Hey everyone!

I was recently admitted to UChicago and I've gotten a handful of questions about the UChicago interview, so I thought I'd write up an in-depth post about it so that those of you interested in Chicago now and interested 7Sagers in the future can know what to expect :smile:.

For the sake of transparency, here are my numbers and how my cycle has gone: lawschoolnumbers.com/ApplicantFor2018

To add some color, I transferred universities from a T50 to a T20 after my first year of college. After transferring I received a 4.0 in all semesters. My letters of rec came from two professors - one I took for 3 semesters and the other just for 1 - whose classes I was #1 in consistently and whose office hours I attended religiously. I also took ~9 months off of school to work on Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign but am still graduating on time.

Time for the interview

In broad strokes, here are general points you should know:

1. It is structured.

In stark contrast with the Georgetown Alumni Interview (see: https://classic.7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/14244/i-just-interviewed-with-georgetown-heres-what-to-expect), the UChicago interview is structured. As in, the interviewer has a set of pre-determined questions they are trying to get through and they are taking notes on what you say. In this regard, this interview seems to matter a good amount. While the Georgetown Alumni Interview felt like a "gatekeeping" interview - where you were basically already admitted but they want to make sure you're not a weirdo - the UChicago interview felt more like your answers could not only preclude you from admission, but also EARN you admission. In other words, this interview is important and you should prepare for it.

2. But that doesn't mean be a robot.

A structured interview doesn't mean your answers have to be rigid. Demonstrate your intelligence and capability but also demonstrate your interpersonal skills. While the questions are structured, it is still fair-game to ask questions mid-interview. For example, it turns out my interviewer took time off of school to work on Obama's campaign, so we had something in common. I asked her a bit about her experience there and it was a great way to bond with her as an interviewer. Someone once told me people rarely remember what you said, but they always remember how you made them feel. It makes people feel good to talk about themselves, so let them. However, in the context of THIS PARTICULAR interview, because of it's more rigid structure and clear "we have to answer these questions" motive, don't ask too many questions as to seem scatter-brained or to be deliberately digressing. If an opportunity for a cool tangent comes up (like shared work experience, place of birth, etc.), take it! But DON'T MAKE one happen.

3. It is a short interview.

They're only 20 (max 25) minutes. When you first see your interviewer on Skype, he/she won't waste any time - they will jump STRAIGHT into the questions, so be prepared. There isn't much small talk beforehand to warm up, so make sure you're already warm and personable before you get the Skype call. (Also if it wasn't clear, UChicago ONLY conducts interviews via Skype - they do NOT offer in person interviews).

Here's how you should prepare

1. Practice these questions:

Thankfully many past UChicago interviewees have posted the questions they've been asked on various forums. Here are the potential questions you may be asked - practice answers for all of them:

Why law?

Why law now?

Why Chicago?

What am I doing between now and law school (I was a December graduate from UG)?

Resume related questions (questions about specific items or bullet-points on your rezzy).

Have you ever had a time when you were out of your element or comfort zone?

What is your greatest accomplishment?

If you could go back in time and redo one thing in your life, what would it be?

Discuss a memorable class or moment in a class.

Why did you choose your undergrad?

What is your preferred work style?

What do you do in your free time?

How would your professors describe you?

How would your peers describe you?

How would your coworkers describe you?

Do you have any questions for me?

"Who most influenced your decision to go to law school?"

Tell me about a challenge you faced?

Tell me about your current job.

Any points you want me to especially emphasize with the admissions committee?

"What is on your bucket list?"

If you could have a conversation with anyone, living or dead, who would it be and why?

2. When practicing your answers, make sure they are ~3-4 minutes.

Again, the interview is short. The interviewer will likely ask you 4-5 questions. As such, allocate your time wisely and be succinct in your answers. Don't be afraid to tell a narrative when answering them, but don't be too verbose either. Also, oftentimes after I would give an answer the interviewer would comment on it. For example, I said I wanted to go into administrative law and the interviewer talked about how fascinating it was for maybe 30-40 seconds after I finished my answer. Be aware that this will also cut into your time.

3. You will 100% be asked why UChicago and Why Law/Why Law Now and What Kind of Law

Okay, maybe not 100%, but as I perused all of the forums people were almost ALWAYS asked these questions. As such, prioritize constructing good answers for these. Remember UChicago has a reputation for being very academic, so I recommend focusing on something academic in your answer (though do whatever you think is best!).

4. Know your resume AND BEYOND

UChicago is not like other schools in their interview process. They want to know that you have critically reflected on key aspects of your life. For all interviews, you should know your resume. But while other schools (like Georgetown) would just ask "can you tell me about what you did on X/Y/Z job?", UChicago will ask "What did you learn about yourself from this job?" This is a much different question and requires introspection and navel-contemplation. I was asked this exact question pertaining to my campaign job - just be ready for it!

5. As always, bring questions.

Like in most interviews, the interviewer will allot a few minutes after the interview to answer your questions. Make sure you have some!

I hope this is helpful to everyone! I wanted to be 100% transparent in this since I know admissions and interviews are often such a nebulous, daunting process. If anyone has any further questions about the interview just comment down below or PM me and I'll respond!

P.S. - Your Skype ID is the thing that pops up in the top left corner of your Skype app when you open it on your computer. So if you made your Skype account with an e-mail, it will be that e-mail. If you made it through Facebook, it'll be something weird like facebook.paul.caint. This ID is what you send UChicago when scheduling your interview.

Seeking input and advice. Yes, I know I am starting early. My ultimate goal is to get into a T14 JD/Master of Public Policy dual degree program, work in government influencing legislation, strong interest in anti-corruption/ethics, and run for public office later.

I have been accepted into Clemson's honors college, Cornell and Furman. Clemson and Furman are very close in total cost for me (I won a large scholarship at Furman.) For those who do not know Furman, it is a small LAC with about 2,800 undergraduates. My parents say I would be a "big fish" at Furman, meaning it would be less competitive than the other two, probably easier to secure leadership positions, very strong access to professors, less stress, and they have a mock trial team (which I have enjoyed being a part of throughout HS.) I am concerned that Furman is not as well known when it comes time to apply to law schools. With the honors college at Clemson, it comes with some perks, more competitive for leadership roles, they have a good career services, and strong alumni. Much bigger enrollment, very hard to get into their honors college, they work with students who want to go for fellowships. Clemson doesn't have a mock trial team but they have a debate team and a "pre-law society." Cornell is obviously the Ivy, research opportunities, and alumni that comes with it. Worried about being able to achieve the super high GPA that is needed to get into a top law school if I go somewhere like Cornell where it is super competitive.

So I know for sure that I would like to study philosophy as one of my majors, particularly focusing on moral and political philosophy. (At Clemson they have it with a "Law, Liberty, and Justice emphasis." I was also thinking about majoring in Economics to understand how the economy works and to assist in the future for influencing economic policy. However, I read comments from an Economics major at Cornell said not to waste your time with it because the economics degree there is all theoretical and not enough math. Then I see someone saying that philosophy is more logic and reasoning and it is good to have more writing skills by taking political science or history. I am super strong in history and have loved it since third grade, and I am also very interested in political science. At Furman, an upperclassman told me to definitely get a second major in political science because there is some overlap with the philosophy degree where you don't need a lot of extra courses.

Anyways, would love your input. My parents are the analytical type (CPA and Computer Programming) and don't know anything about law school other than what we've been trying to research on-line. Thanks so much!

I'm a music student and law school hopeful (obviously). I decided to check out admissions records for music majors on Law School Numbers today, and have to say it was pretty discouraging. Maybe the data isn't really representative because there really weren't a whole lot of search results, but it seems like those I found (particularly for higher scorers) really underperformed their numbers.

Of course I don't know anything about these people besides their numbers but it definitely has me a bit worried that even with a great LSAT score I won't be that competitive for T14 schools. Anyone else out there coming from music or other fine arts fields and have thoughts or experience to share?

Hey 7Sage,

We put together a nice new tool that combines 2019 USNWR rankings with the latest available medians: https://classic.7sage.com/admissions/top-law-school-admissions/

Scroll down for even more fun.

If you click on every single dot in that scatterplot, your decisions might be in your inbox by the time you're done.

Just released http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/new-2017-2018-cycle-data-as-of-3-27-18/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

My reach school is WUSTL - I have a friend who is a 1L there and had the opportunity to have lunch with a professor and sit in a class. I'm smitten.

I scored a 161 on the February LSAT. I'm an older student so there's a decade gap in my undergrad. My most recent GPA is 3.75 (one full time semester) but my overall GPA is 2.9 because of my early (under)performance.

My personal statement was about an experience which inspired me to pursue law school. I have a strong work history and I've spent the past couple years working at a nonprofit which offers pro bono legal services.

So far I've been accepted to Mizzou w a 60k scholarship. If WUSTL is your reach/dream school , I'd like to hear your story.

Hope everyone’s admissions or study cycle is going well. I just wanted to get a bit of feedback on mine—which has been touch and go thus far. I’m just wondering if I have good reason to worry about the outcome of this cycle.

First thing that I’ll say is that I’ve applied to 14 schools and have heard back from five of them thus far: sitting at a 2-2-1 record. Two acceptances (UT, Northwestern), two waitlists (Duke (priority reserve), and Berkeley), and most recently one rejection (Harvard, 2 Weeks after JS1). Nothing from any other school.—I also should note that I applied very late in this cycle (this could be a non-negligible factor).

I also might throw in a little about my desired career path: clerking, to a stint in big Law (5-7 years), then either to PI or academia (with a strong preference for the latter). There are a lot of reasons for these particular goals but that would detract you for too long and besides, I’m always open-minded about evolving opportunities and so grant that these might well change.

In any case, with the Harvard rejection, I’ve gotten a little more concerned about my cycle. Ever more concerned, in fact, because sifting through the available data on URMs (I’m AA) and Harvard admissions data my rejection appears to be historic. Now this is not “historic” in some highfalutin sense—this is, after all one admissions decision in a sea of thousands and thousands—but just in the sense that given the data, I have the infamous role of being the most egregious underachiever as far as numbers are concerned (i.e., given the data, my numbers would have predicted a strong chance of admission to Harvard and a stronger chance of no rejection). As far as softs are concerned, I haven’t medaled in the olympics but have “disadvantage” softs (first gen, recovered from a major brain injury) plus other non-traditional softs (PhD). Given all of this, Harvard was probably my best shot at a T-3 acceptance (I basically blanketed the top 16 schools besides Cornell and Georgetown).

So, finally, my two questions are these: should I be worried about the complexion of the rest of my cycle given my goals? How likely is it that some facet of my application (or me!) doomed my chances—a facet that I’m not seeing (because I can’t access the neccesary vantage point to assess myself as others do)?

I made the decision (mistake?) of doing all of my applications without much help/feedback, and wonder if this fact (stupidity?) coupled with the Harvard rejection supports an affirmative answer to my second question. While I cannot do anything about it for this cycle, I favor truth over truthiness so I can mentally prepare myself for what is (soon) to come. In that sense, your thoughts would prove helpful.

Any and all feedback is appreciated and I thank y’all in advance!

Has anyone heard anything from any of their schools today?

One of the professors that I was planning to ask for a letter of recommendation told me that she was moving to the other side of the country at the end of this school year. Could I ask her for a letter of recommendation now and just let the letter sit in my CAS until I need it when I apply next cycle?

I am a current junior, planning to apply during next year's cycle (October, 2018). I think I saw online that letters of recommendation are valid for up to five years, but I was just worried that the date difference between when I receive the letter and when I use it may affect my applications somehow.

Does anyone have any advice or insight on my situation? Thank you in advance!

Good evening,

My English 1101 teacher from 2015 made a big impact on my academic career. In the past, he was written the strongest letters of recommendation for me among my professors. My only concern about getting him to write my Law School LOR is the class level he taught me. Would admissions prefer to see a letter from a more recent class you took and higher course than Eng 1101? I know he will write the best letter, but is he the right fit? He received his Ph.D. from Emory in English.

Thank you in advance!

I was visiting Georgetown when I found out I got wait-listed to Harvard.

Although it's not a yes (and I am still in a limbo), I am elated to be even considered by Harvard. I wanted to thank the 7sage community for being so supportive and incredibly kind throughout this long journey. 7Sage helped me increase my 158 (September) into a 168 (December). I wouldn't have applied to Harvard had it not been for my increase - still a shot in the dark. But here we are, in D.C., paranoid that I clicked the wrong button for my confirmation to remain on HLS' waitlist.

I hope to ply through this. And I think I will do that by re-studying for the June lsats to increase my chances. But I wanted to take this time to really thank you all for being the community that I know.

Seriously, thank you guys.

"Let me pray for the best without the worry of a lost that isn't mine"

I've spoken with so many attorneys and they all have said this to me: It doesn't matter what law school you attend. Of course there are law schools out there that may give you an easier access to a certain industry as well as certain firms but it does not guarantee any success in the future. No one cares what school you attended after you pass the Bar. The goal of attending and then graduating law school is passing the Bar and achieving profitability. Hence, you're out of your mind if you take out a loan to go to Harvard instead of taking that 75% grant from Hofstra. I've seen "T-14 or bust". Whoever is giving you that advice you should ignore from now on. These attorneys I've spoken with and have relationships with graduated from Brooklyn, NYLS, Cooley, New England Law, and a few other T3-T4 schools. All are at least 6-digit annual earners, some are multi-millionaires from Cooley and New England Law, and other T3-T4 schools and are mid-age. Someone I know well graduated from UMass Andover Law and if you're aware of that school, you'll know that its NOT ABA-accredited. She paid less than $20K a year in tuition and now has her own firm with a group of associates...multi-millionaire. Follow the money, achieve that profitability!! If you get a huge grant, don't be a schmuck and say "oh it's T4 and the school's graduates go to more mid-size firms than big-law firms, so f*ck that". Good luck to everyone on their LSAT prep; I hope you crush it and get as much money in grants as possible.

I was planning to take the lsat in December, knew I wasn't ready, and postponed until February. I'm content with my score but I didn't get a "get into any school you want regardless of when you apply" type school, you feel me? When I was preparing for the LSAT people loved giving me "law school" advice but not once did I hear about how rigorous the application process would be. Don't get me wrong, I didn't think it'd be a cakewalk, but it seems like every time I think I can send my application in there's some new information I need to add, overlooked, or just didn't know regarding law school. When planning for the lsat, I had a mental calendar: first focus on the lsat, then focus on schools/applications. Only problem is that by postponing my applications and school searches I got WAY behind and have missed deadlines. On top of that, my undergrad university didn't actually graduate me until December, waiting for my transcript to get finalized, and now waiting on it to be reviewed and approved by lsac. My letters of recommendation came in later than expected but I didn't realize that I myself couldn't submit them. I'm freaking out guys! I don't usually post so I guess everything is just spewing out at once, sry. I really want to enroll this fall but I'm not sure what else to expect. On my applications (from my understanding) it looks like I can submit them without having my LOR and Transcripts processed but that doesn't seem right. If I send in my app now will they just receive the additional information once processed or will/should I just wait? Looking for a light at the end of this tunnel here!

Hey Guys! I have a quick question. I emailed UGA my LOCI about a week ago and I have not received a reply email. Is that normal? I don't want to call and bother them if that is standard protocol. Thank you so much!

Question: I'm curious if people have opinions/advice regarding whether attending a lower-ranked law school would be a bad idea (e.g. would significantly hinder my long-term career goals), considering that I don't have an interest in BigLaw and plan to practice in the Midwest market.

Background: I graduated two years ago with my undergrad and am working full-time as a paralegal at a boutique law firm that specializes in employment immigration. I live in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul), and plan to stay and pursue my law career here. I have no interest in being a "big, fancy lawyer" - I don't want to work 80 hours a week and live under a constant cloud of stress. I want to be successful and proud of my career, but to achieve that, I don't feel the need to do a federal clerkship or work at a top firm even in the Twin Cities. I'm not interested in litigation and prefer administrative law; I have done internships in public interest law and have discovered that it is not for me. The attorneys I work for went to local schools in the Midwest, and they have their own firm, make a very good living, and have high standing in the community. My ideal goal is to go to law school part-time while working full-time (or close to full-time) at my current position. I think it is a good possibility that the firm I am currently at would hire me on as an attorney after I graduate, or at least would help me network and find a position.

I am currently looking at applying to Mitchell Hamline School of Law. With my GPA and LSAT scores, I am fairly certain I could get a full-ride or very close to it. Nationally, the school is ranked very low, but it is well-known and respected in the Twin Cities. They have a part-time program I could attend that would allow me to continue working. However, I believe I could get into the University of Minnesota - a much higher ranked institution - but attending part-time isn't an option, and I doubt I would get close to a full ride.

Conclusion: Basically I'm looking for any comments on the importance/necessity of attending a top-tier school if I have more moderate career goals. Thank you!

What do you guys think of the new USNWR rankings?

I was thrilled to see Berkeley jump up from #12 to #9 since it's one of my top choices. But I wonder if it'll keep climbing or drop back down next year? And I also wonder how much the rankings will influence employment outcomes, if at all. Thoughts, feelings, insights?

I just got an email stating that I was wait listed...in the top school of my choice. I'm extremely ecstatic, but I also do not know how to get my self off the wait list, if it's possible.

The school said that the wait list is unranked...which I'm assuming means that I'm in a pool of applicants that are very similar to me? I'm just glad I'm not rejected, but I don't know where else to go at this point.

This is what the email states:

"we keep an unranked wait list and we will monitor commitments made by our admitted students regularly in the coming months so that you may be informed at the earliest possible time of any offers that we are able to extend to those on our wait list. "

They made me fill out a form that stated I was still interested, but I'm not sure if I need to do an LOCI. What else can I do, should I e-mail them and ask if I should take the June LSAT to improve my score, or if I go visit the law school, is there anyway that they can know...? Should I send an LOCI anyway...?

What are your guys' opinions?

Hello everyone! Long time lurker and user of all the free aspects of 7sage, lol. I’m in a bit of a predicament.

I’ve received two acceptances thus far. One from my alma mater, Howard University, with a 35,000 yearly scholarship. And one from UC Berkeley, with no mention of any aid beyond their supplemental gift aid application which I’ve yet to fill out.

Berkeley came as a shock to me! As did Howard’s generous scholarship. I’ve heard a lot of varying opinions on the matter. Some say T-14 or bust, and some say the loans/debt just isn’t worth it.

I’m at a bit of a crossroads here and I’d love to hear some opinions on my situation in particular.

I can provide more info if necessary but let me know what you guys think! Thank you.

Hi 7sagers, curious what y'alls opinion is on this - at what point is a test taker to be satisfied with where they are at and move on? I know it is in our future lawyers nature to never be satisfied with where we are at and always feel like we need a little more re-tuning. I am a sub 3.0 GPA applicant trying to gain admission to the T14 next cycle, I have a 173 LSAT on the books from December and am trying to decide if I should take another swing at this thing. I went -4LR/-3RC/-2LG, both LG's were rule substitutions..I was usually a -0/1 LG guy so that did bother me.

I'm not applying to the T6, so since I am already 3 or more points above everyone else's 75th LSAT line would a 174 or 175 really even open up more doors for me that a 173 wouldn't? The ( 3.0 / )170 data on myLSN is so scanty that it is hard to know. Also even though I know schools now say it doesn't matter, I have a hard time believing that should I score in the 170-172 range on a re-take that that wouldn't lessen the luster of my 173 at least a little.

When is the point where we have pushed the LSAT boulder as far as it's going to help us, need to accept diminishing returns, and be at peace with it? I hear some people say that 175ish is the last milestone of the test that you can consistently train up to, beyond which you need a little luck of the draw on specific q's, so is this where y'all would place the re-take ceiling?

If I would've scored a 170/171 I would've retaken just to push up a few pts above those 75th lines of the non-T6, but now at a 173 am stuck between feeling like I should just be proud and grateful for what I have achieved, and also thinking well I am only those 2 LG pts away from a 175!

Thanks for any input!

Can anyone offer any anecdotal or empirical evidence on whether adcoms consider your major against your GPA? I've heard it's all GPA and they barely consider what you studied.

I certainly don't mean to offend anyone but it seems absurd for an adcom to equate a 3.8 in chemical engineering with a 3.8 in english. Personally, I finished with a 3.7 in finance from a good Midwestern business school and I'm really hoping the difficulty of my major helps compensate for a low-ish GPA, at least by T14 standards.

Hi everyone!

I had a question about the application process. So I had to be a full-time student throughout my junior and currently my senior years of undergrad (taking 18-20 credits each semester to help recover my GPA) as I was placed on academic probation my sophomore year due to being a biochemistry major and failing my math and science classes. Because of this, I have not had any time to devote to a professional/significant job to put on my resume (aside from working part-time as a teacher's assistant for a few months before quitting to focus on school). So that being said, how important is work experience (or lack thereof) in law school applications? Is it a deal-breaker for admission officers? I plan on applying to mainly NYC schools (Fordham, Cardozo, St. John's, Brooklyn, etc.) if that helps.

Submitting a LOCI before a waitlist - has anyone ever done this/is this at all advisable? I feel like as I'm still waiting to hear from schools this late in the cycle, it might be good to reiterate my interest in some of the schools for those weighing me hard...